Ontario needs to invest in EVs as a realistic Option.

[OftenWrong]

... You get rid of ICE and there's no more gas stations. No more sequestering fuel. No energy storage. Ask the folks living in remote areas of northern Canada, anywhere outside the big cities in ON or Quebec what they think of that idea.

Places with minimal electrical infrastructure.

You ain't gonna build no SMR's for all the small towns, villages, and territories to recharge their EV's neither.

[Boges]

On 4/8/2023 at 12:08 PM, ironstone said:

Just got through 3 days without power here. Had to rely on my ICE generator to keep some things running.

Things are going to get so bad as consumers are coerced to buy more EV's with all that extra demand on the grid.?

Well. . . just imagine how many day-to-day tasks a fully charged EV can power. 30-100 kwh can power a lot of stuff. 

Newer EVs will be able to feed into the grid as well as take from it. 

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Boges said:

Well. . . just imagine how many day-to-day tasks a fully charged EV can power. 30-100 kwh can power a lot of stuff. 

Not many. And you've just squandered your only means to leave the area if things get worse. It's a bad idea.

4 hours ago, Boges said:

Newer EVs will be able to feed into the grid as well as take from it. 

Of all the many good reasons to buy an EV - this is NOT one of them. In fact it's just a bad one.

First off people shouldn't be attaching a generator OR a 'battery' to their home without having the home's electrical systems fitted for it or you run the risk of electrocuting the guys working on the lines if you don't know what you're doing.

Secondly the amp output of such vehicles is not going to be the same as a generator and you can't do the same things - and if the software DOES accidentally allow excessive draw then the batteries will explode spectacuarlrly. This is more and more likely to happen the older the batteries get.

And third - you'll burn through that battery in no time. IT sure as hell won't take three days. And now if things get worse you've given up your means of transportation to leave the area.  Having lived through a few 'disaster' situations i can tell you that's a BAD idea.

At least with a generator you could charge the car if it wasn't fully charged when the disaster struck.

We have enough power outages where i live that i have a proper permanent propane powered generator wired to the house that automatically comes on when it detects a power outage.  I know  a thing or two about this stuff

Buy an EV for ANY other reason. That is not a good reason.

[OftenWrong]

Never mind the bollocks.

Germany Rejects Europe’s Proposal to Ban Gas-Powered Vehicles by 2035

The Square-heads have spoken.

[herbie]

And ALL their automakers aren't listening....

[Boges]

Germany is gonna be the Right's favourite country going forward. 

They seem to be the only one NOT moving towards greener tech. I guess because they put all their eggs in LNG from Russia. 

SEE! SEE! Looks what Germany is doing!!! 

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, Boges said:

Germany is gonna be the Right's favourite country going forward. 

They seem to be the only one NOT moving towards greener tech. I guess because they put all their eggs in LNG from Russia. 

SEE! SEE! Looks what Germany is doing!!! 

Well i think they're punching themselves right now for drinking the 'climate coolaid" and shutting down their reactors in the name of the environment. 

Now they're compensating the other way and being very cautious.  And in fairness till they work out their electricity issues it makes little sense to go to electric cars instead of gas when you'll just have to burn gas to produce the electricity. Might as well just use the gas for now till you sort it out.

I think they should be very agressively looking at modern nuclear options. But i don't run the place. Apparently

[Boges]

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well i think they're punching themselves right now for drinking the 'climate coolaid" and shutting down their reactors in the name of the environment. 

Now they're compensating the other way and being very cautious.  And in fairness till they work out their electricity issues it makes little sense to go to electric cars instead of gas when you'll just have to burn gas to produce the electricity. Might as well just use the gas for now till you sort it out.

I think they should be very agressively looking at modern nuclear options. But i don't run the place. Apparently

It's what France is doing. 

The fear of Nuclear is weird. 

[CdnFox]

17 minutes ago, Boges said:

It's what France is doing. 

The fear of Nuclear is weird. 

Yeah. Especially as it's mostly driven by environmental groups.  I honestly think it's just a bit of a lack of education and concerns over the first gen nuclear plants safety. They really need to drop that and get with the program, today's systems are an order of magnitude safer to the point of it being hard to imagine an accident, and the amount of residual waste is absolutely tiny. Disposing of it is no issue.

See - then ev's would make even more sense. We wouldn't be burning carbon for power so it's a much more massive environmental impact to eliminate it from as much of the transport infrasturcture as possible - which then helps fund the  Electrical upgrades and power stations because more electricity is being bought so it's totally worth it.

Edited April 11, 2023 by CdnFox

[Boges]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Yeah. Especially as it's mostly driven by environmental groups.  I honestly think it's just a bit of a lack of education and concerns over the first gen nuclear plants safety. They really need to drop that and get with the program, today's systems are an order of magnitude safer to the point of it being hard to imagine an accident, and the amount of residual waste is absolutely tiny. Disposing of it is no issue.

The number of people that die of Air pollution is so much higher every year than have ever died from all Nuclear power incidents combined.  

It's really one of those fears that lack perspective. 

[CdnFox]

Just now, Boges said:

The number of people that die of Air pollution is so much higher every year than have ever died from all Nuclear power incidents combined.  

It's really one of those fears that lack perspective. 

I edited my response to you btw - you were just too quick on the draw for me today

But yes - aside from global warming there are all kinds of problems with pollution in general that affect our lives. Eventually we have to do away wiht emissions producing tech.

[OftenWrong]

Germany demonstrates how easily the half-baked theories of the left can come apart. They've shut down the reactors... out of fear of a tsunami. Not just shut down, but dismantled the buildings so that future generations would have to completely start over again if they wanted nuclear. No possibility of future upgrades using safer fuel. No new Gen-4 systems coming online. That is completely absurd.

On top of this, I read they've restarted some of their de-commissioned coal burning plants.

Germany goes back to burning coal as its energy crisis deepens

Yep, Germany the EU leader is a "gift to the right", or rather a gift to people who are intelligent, as an example of the leftist beaurocratic mess that develops and leads the indefensible position they now find themselves in.

Now bring on the Huns I say... finish them off. Putin will be cashing their checks in Rubles.

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Germany demonstrates how easily the half-baked theories of the left can come apart. They've shut down the reactors... out of fear of a tsunami. Not just shut down, but dismantled the buildings so that future generations would have to completely start over again if they wanted nuclear. No possibility of future upgrades using safer fuel. No new Gen-4 systems coming online. That is completely absurd.

On top of this, I read they've restarted some of their de-commissioned coal burning plants.

Germany goes back to burning coal as its energy crisis deepens

Yep, Germany the EU leader is a "gift to the right", or rather a gift to people who are intelligent, as an example of the leftist beaurocratic mess that develops and leads the indefensible position they now find themselves in.

Now bring on the Huns I say... finish them off. Putin will be cashing their checks in Rubles.

Sadly one of those rare areas you and i agree on. It's unfortunate.

[OftenWrong]

While nuclear reactors are now the only sensible way forward, it's because we live in a mad world. These devices simply should not be built in my opinion. Any tech that requires human civilization to maintain in order to safeguard it from destroying all life on earth should not be built. It's inevitable that civilization will fall and there will be wars. Without constant intervention of trained people and sophisticated tools, these things (and their nuclear waste stockpiles) are deadly.

They will remain deadly, for thousands of years.

Same with A bombs etc.

Edited April 11, 2023 by OftenWrong

[OftenWrong]

But you people carry on worrying about how fast you're gonna charge your precious little EV.

[CdnFox]

26 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

While nuclear reactors are now the only sensible way forward, it's because we live in a mad world. These devices simply should not be built in my opinion. Any tech that requires human civilization to maintain in order to safeguard it from destroying all life on earth should not be built. It's inevitable that civilization will fall and there will be wars. Without constant intervention of trained people and sophisticated tools, these things (and their nuclear waste stockpiles) are deadly.

They will remain deadly, for thousands of years.

Same with A bombs etc.

That's really not the case anymore. The latest designs go dormant UNLESS someone is there to provide input, unlike the old ones which always were in danger of runaway.  And the amount of waste they produce per year that can't be used is like the size of a grapefruit. Very easy to seal away until they settle down. The modern designs are nothing like the old school 3 mile island deals.

[OftenWrong]

33 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That's really not the case anymore. The latest designs go dormant UNLESS someone is there to provide input, unlike the old ones which always were in danger of runaway.  And the amount of waste they produce per year that can't be used is like the size of a grapefruit. Very easy to seal away until they settle down. The modern designs are nothing like the old school 3 mile island deals.

I haven't heard of this reactor that produces such minimal waste. As far as I'm aware, all reactors produce copious amounts of waste from the fuel rods. Canada is constantly seeking places underground to sequester the waste from our reactors, and natives are constantly fighting them every step of the way.

New SMR's are miniature pressurized water reactors. Same as many older designs. Each site requires a plot of land to hold the spent rods in pools.

Othe new designs like sodium cooled are inherently safer as you describe, but still fraught with danger. As in grave danger. Ever seen a sodium fire, son? You surround a reactor core with that material and light it up... oye vato. You better find a new planet, man.

These things too should simply not be built.

- in my esteemed opinion - 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I haven't heard of this reactor that produces such minimal waste. As far as I'm aware, all reactors produce copious amounts of waste from the fuel rods

Do some reading when you get time on the latest tech. It's pretty damn impressive. The waste from modern reactors can be reprocessed to produce new fuel so the amount of waste is reduced. The use of pellets instead of rods and other tech means that most of the waste is short term easy to deal with stuff, with one tenth of the waste of former methods that will need to be sealed away permanently.

Bottom line - it's the only actual clean energy source we've got, even more so than hydro which is not even avaliable in large parts of the world. The tech is mature and safe. It's probably the best option we're going to have for the next 100 years so if we don't want to burn carbon that's what we're going to have to migrate to in areas with minimal hydro.

Solar and wind might be able to help a little but they ain't gonna be replacing on demand generation anytime soon. So it's that or we burn oil and coal and natural gas.

And no - a sodium fire isn't going to destroy the whole planet   Lets try to keep it real.

 

[OftenWrong]

11 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Do some reading when you get time on the latest tech. It's pretty damn impressive. The waste from modern reactors can be reprocessed to produce new fuel so the amount of waste is reduced. The use of pellets instead of rods and other tech means that most of the waste is short term easy to deal with stuff, with one tenth of the waste of former methods that will need to be sealed away permanently.

Bottom line - it's the only actual clean energy source we've got, even more so than hydro which is not even avaliable in large parts of the world. The tech is mature and safe. It's probably the best option we're going to have for the next 100 years so if we don't want to burn carbon that's what we're going to have to migrate to in areas with minimal hydro.

Solar and wind might be able to help a little but they ain't gonna be replacing on demand generation anytime soon. So it's that or we burn oil and coal and natural gas.

And no - a sodium fire isn't going to destroy the whole planet   Lets try to keep it real.

 

Ahh yes I know what you are referring to. The waste from reactors can be recycled in a reactor of different design. But unfortunately it's not being done at all. Breeder reactors can take the spent fuel rods from a CANDU and use them to produce a nuclear reaction again, creating energy and converting the spent fuel into useful enriched material again. A nuclear fuel cycle. The problem I recall is that the process can produce large amounts of weapons-grade material. So out of concern for nuclear weapons proliferation it is not used. There may be other technical issues with breeder reactors that make them undesireable as well. I didn't look this up, couldn't be bothered so the info could be out of date.

Unfortunately there's no magic bullet, despite what the reactor salesmen say.

[OftenWrong]

A timely article revealing the hidden truth about EV's.

Electric vehicle's charge capacity 'nowhere near' what was advertised

"My wife took a job up in Barrie, Ont., and she has to commute 100 kilometers each way and we were paying over $1,000 in gas," Jack Fleming, of Etobicoke, Ont., told CTV News Toronto Monday. Fleming said before buying an all-electric Volvo C40 Recharge, he checked the vehicle’s range, which was advertised as 364 km on a full charge.

"Even if it didn't hit that if it hit 300 km or 275 km, we just need enough to drive 100 km with a bit of a safety margin, so she doesn’t have to worry she won’t make it home,” Fleming explained.

Fleming says he made the $72,000 purchase in November and that it wasn’t long after that he and his wife became concerned about the distance the car was travelling on each charge.

“We are only getting about 225 km per charge – nowhere near what they’re advertising,” Fleming said. “That's like 60 per cent of what they are advertising.”

....

Boges bought the blue-ray stereo, and now wants all of us to buy one too.

Beware the Flim-Flam Man. 

[Boges]

6 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

A timely article revealing the hidden truth about EV's.

Electric vehicle's charge capacity 'nowhere near' what was advertised

"My wife took a job up in Barrie, Ont., and she has to commute 100 kilometers each way and we were paying over $1,000 in gas," Jack Fleming, of Etobicoke, Ont., told CTV News Toronto Monday. Fleming said before buying an all-electric Volvo C40 Recharge, he checked the vehicle’s range, which was advertised as 364 km on a full charge.

"Even if it didn't hit that if it hit 300 km or 275 km, we just need enough to drive 100 km with a bit of a safety margin, so she doesn’t have to worry she won’t make it home,” Fleming explained.

Fleming says he made the $72,000 purchase in November and that it wasn’t long after that he and his wife became concerned about the distance the car was travelling on each charge.

“We are only getting about 225 km per charge – nowhere near what they’re advertising,” Fleming said. “That's like 60 per cent of what they are advertising.”

....

Boges bought the blue-ray stereo, and now wants all of us to buy one too.

Beware the Flim-Flam Man. 

Well because this couple is having issues, then the entire EV industry is a shame. 

No mention that commute 200 kms a day is an abysmal existence. Maybe make better life choices.

Also No mention if this is just an issue with Cold weather driving or all together range in the article.  

My anecdotal evidence is a I get the advertised range during summer weather and it goes down in the winter, but I would need to take that into considering. Maybe CTV will do a news story about my experience. ?

Also, Newsflash, ICE vehicles range drops in Cold weather as well. The Automakers don't advertise that either. 

 

[Boges]

6 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Boges bought the blue-ray stereo, and now wants all of us to buy one too.

Beware the Flim-Flam Man. 

Blu-Rays were are a video playing format, not a stereo. Forgive me if I don't take your opinions on technology all that seriously. 

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, Boges said:

Blu-Rays were are a video playing format, not a stereo. Forgive me if I don't take your opinions on technology all that seriously. 

Indeed... it's been so long I forgot. That is something only the people who bought one would know, I guess... Well not to worry, the Tesla might also become an interesting museum piece one day.

But seriously, you neglected to highlight one detail. Price tag $79k... are you people kidding me? And for that sub-par performance.

I am not against the removal of ICE vehicles in principle. I am pointing to the coming disaster being set up by our government, that is the elimination of new ICE vehicles from the market in less than 7 years. Besides the infrastructure problem, anyone thought about what this move will do to car companies? Seems pretty obvious that once it kicks in, the number of people buying used cars will dramatically increase. Used cars will become a hot commodity. What will happen to new car sales is debatable. Shot term they will go down I say, and if the price stays that high they'll go down long term too. Many young people simply don't make that kind of money. They can't afford a decent place to live, let alone a high price-tag item like this.

Not that it matters to me much, I'm retiring soon. I tend to drive my cars as long as possible, until the wheels rust off. It's only when the vehicle becomes a safety hazard, structurally, that I stop using it. Then I turn it in for recycling.
Some folks on the other hand get a new vehicle every few years, on lease. I bet Boges was one of those.

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Besides the infrastructure problem, anyone thought about what this move will do to car companies?

If there is a built in infrastructure just like the current one for ICE vehicles, there will not be an issue.

I just don't see how you build a network as vast as the ICE vehicle network of gas stations, garages for repairs and the like, in 7 years.

I definitely would like to hope, that battery technology by then, would be far more efficient in maximizing storage, but minimizing bulk--one of the biggest hurtles to mass adoption, other than the cost of it.

Its headed in the right direction, but I don't think you rush into such decisions, as the unintended consequence would be the bulk of a population moving to electric, and our grid, our charging infrastructure etc, lagging far behind.

[I am Groot]

On 4/11/2023 at 1:18 PM, Boges said:

Germany is gonna be the Right's favourite country going forward. 

They seem to be the only one NOT moving towards greener tech. I guess because they put all their eggs in LNG from Russia. 

SEE! SEE! Looks what Germany is doing!!! 

Germany gets 27% of its electricity from wind power. Another 10% is from solar. It spends tens of billions on renewable energy sources and research. Unfortunately, it also has one of those pizza parliaments and the Greens were kingmakers who forced the ruling party to get rid of nuclear. Now its nuclear plants have closed down they've had to reopen coal plants instead! LOL