Ontario needs to invest in EVs as a realistic Option.

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Wait.

Most items are produced in ways we are oblivious to in the west, when it comes down to cheap goods.

I love Nestlé. I know the company has come under fire for child labor.

It won't stop me from consuming their products.

I don't care that kids made the cocoa in my chocolate bar. I am consuming an end product.

Take the complaints to the company.

The "you have blood on your hands" argument is hypocritical, considering the sheer volume of consumer goods produced cheaply, that have questionable means of them being produced.

I just don't pretend to be of high moral standing.

I proposed to my wife with what am sure are blood diamonds. I don't care. I didn't invent these issues. 

[Michael Hardner]

35 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

You can assume am gay. If I wear makeup you can assume am trans. Why are you so defensive on pedo jokes? Just asking.

Ok so you ARE joking....

Gong show material...

Edited June 10, 2023 by Michael Hardner

[Michael Hardner]

31 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

 

I just don't pretend to be of high moral standing.

 

Yes you do when you post about LGBTQ issues in education.

You're making a market for goods produced unethically.  You basically have no moral standing...

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Ok so you ARE joking

Am being serious. If am effeminate and you assume am gay, what is the issue?

If you give off pedo vibes, and someone calls you a pedophile what is the issue?

I only see this being an issue if you just got out of jail. Otherwise, I fail to see the issue.

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You're making a market for goods produced unethically. 

So are you.

Where do your fruits come from? Your computer? Your phone? Your leather goods? Cotton? Your shoes? Clothing? Polyester? 

Stop being a hypocrite.

[OftenWrong]

22 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

So are you.

Where do your fruits come from? Your computer? Your phone? Your leather goods? Cotton? Your shoes? Clothing? Polyester? 

Stop being a hypocrite.

Not to worry. Those of us who are thinkers and less sensitive get the point.

Was just saying this to my wife today, we as a country buy crappy goods from China while taking a pose as if we're progressive and as if we care about the environment. That's why globalists love China, they can produce the cheap goods that guarantee to sell, because they have very few environmental regulations and human rights standards. We import their junk and pollute our country with it. Called "Chineseium".

The position we are in as a country is laughable, but for the fact that we are ignorant and it's really a tragedy.

[Michael Hardner]

34 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Am being serious. If am effeminate and you assume am gay, what is the issue?

 

1. I guess if I think it, then nothing.  But saying that to you is insulting at the least.

And if I decide to refer to you as a f4g then you might not like that.

[Michael Hardner]

36 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. So are you.

2. Where do your fruits come from? Your computer? Your phone? Your leather goods? Cotton? Your shoes? Clothing? Polyester? 

3. Stop being a hypocrite.

1. 2. I'm certain that they don't come from forced labour or children.   I check for that and it's not hard to do it.  

3. I try to do the right thing.  

You're the one who says you don't care about buying things produced unethically, then moralizing about LGBTQ all over the place in another thread.

Who's the hypocrite here?  You are.

Do you buy stolen goods too?

 

Seriously it's ethics 101 and you failed.  Nothing else to say...

Edited June 11, 2023 by Michael Hardner

[OftenWrong]

On 6/8/2023 at 1:48 PM, herbie said:

Boy, that sure ended discussion fast.
Real kick in the nuts, eh EV haters?

Actually most of the conversation we had centers on concerns that we won't be ready to make the switch to EV's full- scale by the time this government intends to ban the sale of new ICE cars.

That's why the title of the thread is "Ontario needs to invest in... " 

Perspektiv may or may not be serious in his position but it hardly matters. He could just be playing the devils advocate. He is right about the problem of sub-par performance of these vehicles as well.

Anecdote but we know a lady with an EV and she confirmed the very thing I said earlier, the range is much less than promised especially in winter. Government needs to provide more chargers and more power infrastructure.

Judging by the way this is going, people are going to have to get used to poorer performance with long charging times, shortened battery life due to excessive use of fast-chargers, expensive replacement cost, limited supply of lithium and how to deal with the toxic waste that cannot be recycled.

Sounds like Musk has a lot more stuff to invent before they really work well.

 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

And if I decide to refer to you as a f4g then you might not like that.

I have a beautiful wife. You could call me that all day. I couldn't care less. You seem a bit sensitive to being called a pedophile, you shouldn't care about unless it's true. 

31 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm certain that they don't come from forced labour or children.   I check for that and it's not hard to do it.  

Just because something wasn't made by children, doesn't mean it wasn't produced in inhumane ways.

Turning your nose at child labor, but seemingly not caring of the conditions those who produced your goods in, is incredibly hypocritical. 

Cheap goods come with a price. 

Buying Canadian produce, also doesn't mean your goods weren't harvested by some migrants in slave like conditions, getting paid far less than minimum wage to do so. 

How do you think produce is kept so cheap? 

If you shop at Walmart, Loblaws, the Gap and many others. You're just as much a part of the problem, and are only virtue signaling to stifle your white guilt VS it actually amounting to anything. 

36 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I try to do the right thing.

You feeling superior because of this makes you a hypocrite. Most of us try to do the right thing. 

37 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You're the one who says you don't care about buying things produced unethically

I try to, but am aware I won't be able to avoid all unethical products. I also am not superior to anyone for it. 

Am a consumer. Not the person subjecting the workers to poor conditions. To say am no different, is one playing politics, virtue signaling and being a hypocrite all in one shot. 

43 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you buy stolen goods too?

I have. I also have purchased bootlegged goods in Asia. 

44 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You are.

I know. Am saying so are you. I have no shame in my game. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Perspektiv said:

  I have no shame in my game. 

Pretty clear.  

Anyway, nobody should listen to what you say.  You're proudly unethical, maybe the only poster on here to proclaim that.  And given the high regard you have for yourself, and your constant moralizing it's pretty hard to believe...

 

[Michael Hardner]

"I try to" he says...and then simultaneously says he proudly consumes unethically produced goods...

?????

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You're proudly unethical

Your point? 

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

he says

You sure like virtue signaling. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Was just saying this to my wife today, we as a country buy crappy goods from China while taking a pose as if we're progressive and as if we care about the environment.

Seriously. Even though we ship millions of tons of plastics off shore, while about 95% of it winds up in landfills. Out of sight, out of mind, without a care for the damage we cause to ecosystems and to populations, as long as they're not ours. That's just repugnant. 

The fact people actually believe cutting out plastic bags and plastic cutlery in restaurants will put a significant dent in usage, is insane. 

Clothing, more importantly sport wear which is one of the most wasteful industries, along with many others, ensure our plastic use remains sky high VS what we actually resuse which is microscopic. 

Most people try, but to shame those who don't "do enough" is just virtue signaling and has nothing to do with actually doing more. 

If someone talks about how much they do, odds are they aren't doing much of anything other than b****ing about a problem they are contributing to just as much. 

Just the arrogance to think you could save the planet, when the biggest polluters continue to do so is day dreaming at best. 

Of course, one should strive to reduce waste and shop as ethically as possible. It just amuses me to no end, those who feel they are morally superior for doing what you're supposed to do.

Reminds me of Jerry Springer and Jenny Jones talk shows when you would have the trashiest guests boasting about s*** they are supposed to do:

"I pay for my kids! " 

"I done got a job!" 

"At least I know who my baby daddy is!" 

And the classic:

"I got my GED!" 

... Is all I hear when I hear people boasting about what they do for the planet. 

[herbie]

Ontario doesn't have to invest in EVs. Teslas built in China are now being sold in Vancouver. Go celebrate the jobs you didn't get.
Maybe we shold court a factory here in BC to build stripped down budget vehicles back to China. Little Kei Van EVs or ones that run on LNG

[Guest]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Ontario doesn't have to invest in EVs.

I think its in Canada's best interest to invest in EVs.

This technology will only get better.

Honestly, if it wasn't for the range, I would have traded in my car for a Y model Tesla which is currently the only EV of such a size that I find highly attractive.

But I'd rather go for a Rav4 or something similar, based on the reliability, range and just the overall low maintenance of the car.

I do expect in the very near future, to be an EV owner, once it makes sense but feel that time is right around the corner, considering am sick of oil changes and fueling up.

 Juuuuust not enough to wait 15 minutes to go 80% of the way.

With that said, charging for under 25$, which is almost what I paid for 3/4 of a tank of fuel in my car pre covid, is something I can get used to.

 

[herbie]

New RAM pickup EV reported to have 720 km range. Now imagine what I mentioned- a Kei van, like the Subaru Sambar. 5 people, all their luggage. 800 km range at 120 kmh. Not too far in the future or too hard to imagine.

We have a couple Vancover companies still building and promoting silly 3 wheel one passenger EVs... put something like that on the drawing board. You might get investors.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, herbie said:

New RAM pickup EV reported to have 720 km range.

Now, that's a sexy truck.

"Capability without compromise" being one of their motto's. At least by the looks of things, this company gets it. People who buy trucks, don't do compromise.

When you're willing to buy a truck at over 60, 000$ that guzzles gas like a thirsty marathon runner guzzles water--you're not going to be willing to relinquish one inch of power/performance/comfort.

 

[herbie]

Small enough to scoot anywhere in the city, easily carry 4 or 5 people. 4wd for offroad/winter. The only thing I disliked was the annoying buzz of that 660cc engine that a 60-75kw EV would cure.
Other thing was at highway speed these are revving 7000-7500 RPM so that 50mpg they told you about was total BS. Lucky to get 30 on the highway. And dropping to 3rd or even 2nd on long hills. Ev's flat torque would do away with that, where the engine, tranny & gas tank were for battery and electrification would make RHD-LHD models easy to build.
Build them here and save 25% "Chicken Tax" they've screwed us for since 1965.

- mine was actually the pickup model, but almost bought one of these for the wife on the company credit card.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, herbie said:

Small enough to scoot anywhere in the city, easily carry 4 or 5 people. 4wd for offroad/winter. The only thing I disliked was the annoying buzz of that 660cc engine that a 60-75kw EV would cure.
Other thing was at highway speed these are revving 7000-7500 RPM so that 50mpg they told you about was total BS. Lucky to get 30 on the highway. And dropping to 3rd or even 2nd on long hills. Ev's flat torque would do away with that, where the engine, tranny & gas tank were for battery and electrification would make RHD-LHD models easy to build.
Build them here and save 25% "Chicken Tax" they've screwed us for since 1965.

- mine was actually the pickup model, but almost bought one of these for the wife on the company credit card.

I don't think an EV will beat the sound of a full throttle V8.

I have driven several EVs, and the best way I can describe the experience, is that it "feels like driving a computer on wheels".

You will never be able to match the experience of driving a V8 on winding mountainous roads.

[herbie]

In this case anything would beat the sound of three puny cylinders shrieking at 7500 RPM for hours and hours.
Specially if the engines under the front seats like my Mitsubishi minicab...

Hell, we did our honeymoon thru the Rockies after marrying in New West in a 1975 Civic. My ears were still ringing 2 weeks after we got home.

[OftenWrong]

On 6/10/2023 at 8:25 PM, Michael Hardner said:

I'm certain that they don't come from forced labour or children.   I check for that and it's not hard to do it. 

It seems you are sadly mistaken again, if in fact I understand you. I admit it is easy for me to misunderstand you because you sometimes write poor quality posts, which I assume are because of laziness not low intelligence.

The use of child labour is still quite common in China. If you wear clothes made in China or have an Apple iphone or what have you, you're guilty of contributing to child exploitation.

A google search like
https://www.google.com/search?q=china+child+labour

shows that it's an ongoing issue.

Despite Apple's futuristic facade, its labor model is backwards and deeply problematic. Indeed, Apple's cobalt batteries are built on the backs of child labor in mines.

And that is just China, while India (another 'important' trading partner for Canada) is number one in the world in child labour. 

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods-print?items_per_page=10&combine=china

It is these hypocritical positions that make us critical of Trudeau and the globalists. One the one hand he wants to come across as the biggest humanitarian in human history, but the reality is that he is himself highly immoral, and a completely shameless lying phony.

[OftenWrong]

ETA:

This research suggests that further downstream products containing lithium-ion batteries may be produced with an input produced with child labor, such as electric cars, laptops, and cell phones.

Looks like the new EV's will be made more cheaply by building them on the backs of child labourers. All so people like Boges can afford them, and feel good about themselves in helping the environment. Making the world a better place...

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by OftenWrong

[Michael Hardner]

42 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

 

The use of child labour is still quite common in China. If you wear clothes made in China or have an Apple iphone or what have you, you're guilty of contributing to child exploitation.

Well I don't.

42 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

 

It is these hypocritical positions that make us critical of Trudeau and the globalists. One the one hand he wants to come across as the biggest humanitarian in human history, but the reality is that he is himself highly immoral, and a completely shameless lying phony.

So you on one hand of someone who says they know something's produced by child labor, and they don't care. Then you have someone who checks where things are from. That person doesn't own an iPhone.

 

The first person also says that they try to be careful about products they buy, even though they admitted buying a problematic product.

Your response is to assume the second person owns an iPhone and accuse them of being a hypocrite.

Not sure what Trudeau has to do with it. I'm not a Trudeau supporter.

Sometimes my posts are spoken quickly into my phone, because they're not barely worth my time.

[OftenWrong]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Not sure what Trudeau has to do with it. I'm not a Trudeau supporter.

Ahh but this is not all about you. Or it could be, if the shoe fits as the saying goes.

This is about general principles, so although I might use you or someone else as an example, it's intended to show a much more general and wide-spread problem. Just because you feel you are doing well and doing the right things, is not important to the discussion at all.

Do you not own any electronics at all then, or products that use Li batteries? Or pharmaceuticals, or the rubber soles in your shoes?

You honestly expect anyone to believe that? Because it's to the point that it's impossible for Canadians to avoid using Chinese products as they are literally everywhere in our Country.

Don't misunderstand me however. I believe you want to and try to do the righr things. But it's hard...  

Do you get that comment yet?

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Well I don't.

I'll bet a dollar you do, but are oblivious to it. And that's the point why I raised "Trudeau and the globalists". He is the poster boy for globalization and admits so. Or what else does he mean by "Canada is a post-national state"?

We all want to believe we are ethical consumers, but we'll look away when the chips fall because we prefer paying less, and we know the sacrifice we make by not buying Chinesium is literally pointless in the grand scheme of things, given the current situation. 

That's why it's hard. In fact darn right impossible.

Really for you to deny you are a part of the problem has me baffled. Please explain your position with more clarity. It takes effort to think and communicate clearly to others.

29 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sometimes my posts are spoken quickly into my phone, because they're not barely worth my time.

I sense that, which is why I sometimes feel you are not actually interested in discussing the topic material at hand, but are here for something else.

Time to man up.