Trump Vs Trudeau on Coronavirus

[Shady]

What am I talking about, it's probably Fruit Loops.

[taxme]

On 3/30/2020 at 4:34 PM, OftenWrong said:

This is even getting stupider by the minute. As if a family cannot go out on a walk together? We all have to live in the same house, can't quarantine from your family. The average family unit is 4 people. That's why in some areas they put the "group" limit at no more than 5 people, to accommodate families.

Gawd help those families that have six members or more in them. One or two will have to go. Lol. 

I was just watching a video done by some guy who did his own check of some Arizona hospitals in his area. He began by walking thru the parking lots of some of those hospitals. Hardly any cars in the lots in all of them. He saw no ambulances or hospital employees running around in a panic. Upon entering the hospitals he said it was as dead as a doorknob. Surely there had to be one of those hospitals in virus pandemic mode but none could be found. Now I am not going to say that this was all but bull but it did look quite real to me. He did go into some hospitals and all was well. No mass panic going on. This is truly starting to look more like a "global pandemic exercise" alright. But hey, what do I know or you know or anyone else know here, eh? 

We are only going by what the lazy and useless media and our dear leaders are telling us. The question here is should we believe them or not? At this time I am going with the latter because I will never trust the MSM again especially when they go bonkers over something like this so called virus pandemic. This constant day in and day out about this virus does now truly appear to be a bit of brainwashing exercise going on here. How many times do we need to be told about this virus? Enough already, we all have heard enough about it. It's ridiculous. 

This is not the plague. It's probably a cold at best. If this were so serious a pandemic one would think that we would start to see people falling down or dying in the streets? Just saying. 

[taxme]

4 hours ago, Shady said:

What am I talking about, it's probably Fruit Loops.

And I will bet that the only cereals that you ever eat are ones with nuts in them. Lol.

[Argus]

On 3/30/2020 at 10:54 AM, Boges said:

I think this whole thing highlights how feckless Federal Leaders actually are in fighting such a pandemic. (In Canada and the US). 

We look to provincial or state governments for guidelines regarding public health more than federal agencies.

This is about the poor response in the US but for the most part Canada had the same lack of foresight and delayed response.

As the first alarms sounded in early January that an outbreak of a novel coronavirus in China might ignite a global pandemic, the Trump administration squandered nearly two months that could have been used to bolster the federal stockpile of critically needed medical supplies and equipment. A review of federal purchasing contracts by The Associated Press shows federal agencies largely waited until mid-March to begin placing bulk orders of N95 respirator masks, mechanical ventilators and other equipment needed by front-line health care workers.

By that time, hospitals in several states were treating thousands of infected patients without adequate equipment and were pleading for shipments from the Strategic National Stockpile. That federal cache of supplies was created more than 20 years ago to help bridge gaps in the medical and pharmaceutical supply chains during a national emergency. Now, three months into the crisis, that stockpile is nearly drained just as the numbers of patients needing critical care is surging. Some state and local officials report receiving broken ventilators and decade-old dry-rotted masks.

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/article241781571.html#storylink=cpy

https://www.miamiherald.com/article241781571.html

[Argus]

On 3/30/2020 at 1:52 PM, BubberMiley said:

The U.S. has more than three times the infections of Canada per capita. Canada's infections are largely due to our proximity to the U.S. cesspool. Trump has been trying to sabotage effort at social distancing (see below); Trudeau has gotten wide approval from everyone but the Trumper psychos.

So it's not even a comparison. Trudeau wins this one by a landslide

 

Can you name me what exactly Trudeau has done to fight the virus or how any of his actions can be traced back to giving us a lower infection or death rate?

[Argus]

On 3/30/2020 at 4:42 PM, Shady said:

Complete nonsense.  In terms of actual policy, and logistics, Trudeau isn't doing anything differently than Trump, he's just doing them after Trump has already done them.

At least the federal government has contacted the provinces, asked what they need, and then is making one major order to distribute to the provinces. Trump has basically said "Every man for himself!" and set the states loose to try and locate their own PPE and ventilators, getting into desperate bidding wars with each other and driving up the prices.

[Argus]

Donald Trump's lack of response and continuous confusion about the virus isn't exactly earning him a lot of praise. And what the hell is with putting his idiot son in law in charge?

Until now, I have generally been reluctant to label Donald Trump the worst president in U.S. history. As a historian, I know how important it is to allow the passage of time to gain a sense of perspective. Some presidents who seemed awful to contemporaries (Harry S. Truman) or simply lackluster (Dwight D. Eisenhower, George H.W. Bush) look much better in retrospect. Others, such as Thomas Jefferson and Woodrow Wilson, don’t look as good as they once did.

So I have written, as I did on March 12, that Trump is the worst president in modern times — not of all time. That left open the possibility that James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce, Warren Harding or some other nonentity would be judged more harshly. But in the past month, we have seen enough to take away the qualifier “in modern times.” With his catastrophic mishandling of the coronavirus, Trump has established himself as the worst president in U.S. history.

The Post article is the most thorough dissection of Trump’s failure to prepare for the gathering storm. Trump was first briefed on the coronavirus by Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar on Jan. 18. But, The Post writes, “Azar told several associates that the president believed he was ‘alarmist’ and Azar struggled to get Trump’s attention to focus on the issue.” When Trump was first asked publicly about the virus, on Jan. 22, he said, “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China.”

In the days and weeks after Azar alerted him about the virus, Trump spoke at eight rallies and golfed six times as if he didn’t have a care in the world.

Donald Trump is the worst president in history

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Can you name me what exactly Trudeau has done to fight the virus or how any of his actions can be traced back to giving us a lower infection or death rate?

He hasn't dismissed the advise of experts; that in itself leads to fewer infections and a lower death rate.  I think that provincial and local leaders have set the agenda for their jurisdictions, and some have done better than others.  But even in that, JT hasn't actively worked against local authorities the way that Trump has, but instead supported them.   I don't argue that JT could have shown stronger leadership in this, perhaps mandating country-wide limits sooner, but I still have the sense of a country more or less pulling together, rather than the chaos evident in the US.  The criticism I see towards JT in this particular crisis seems mostly driven by partisanship, and not an objective actual assessment of his actions.   

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

Can you name me what exactly Trudeau has done to fight the virus or how any of his actions can be traced back to giving us a lower infection or death rate?

He hasn't emulated Trump.

[Argus]

36 minutes ago, dialamah said:

He hasn't dismissed the advise of experts; that in itself leads to fewer infections and a lower death rate. 

The only "experts" we know about who were giving him advise we know of were the ones from WHO - Chinese controlled, telling him there was nothing to worry about, and not to ban Chinese travelers. And also his public health head, who was saying exactly the same thing, and who told us all in January we might get a few 'rare' cases, but no need to worry, no need to ban or even screen travelers, and let's get on with our lives and play.

Yes, I agree that at this point we haven't heard of him ignoring the advise of experts. Instead all we hear is of him listening to idiots. On the other hand he appointed one of those idiots, so he still bears responsibility for hiring an incompetent and then listening to her idiotic advise.

Quote

I think that provincial and local leaders have set the agenda for their jurisdictions, and some have done better than others. 

That is my point. The provinces have taken care of things and Trudeau hasn't really contributed anything that I can see. His contributions would be in buying more gear, which he didn't do until  the middle of March, and organizing the screening of travelers, which he still hasn't done.

Quote

But even in that, JT hasn't actively worked against local authorities the way that Trump has, but instead supported them.  

So Trudeau hasn't actively impeded the efforts of provinces, except in resisting the call to ban visitors and in not doing any screening. In February he was visiting Chinese restaurants to celebrate the lunar new year and denouncing prejudice against Chinese even as we were dealing with our first cases of the virus in Toronto and Vancouver.

That still does not show us how he contributed to our present better case and death rate. Saying he isn't as much of an asshole as Trump is a pretty damned low bar.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Argus

[eyeball]

 

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

So Trudeau hasn't actively impeded the efforts of provinces, except in resisting the call to ban visitors and in not doing any screening.

That still does not show us how he contributed to our present better case and death rate. Saying he isn't as much of an asshole as Trump is a pretty damned low bar.

You're the positive claimant maintaining Trudeau's inaction led to more deaths than acting would have prevented.  How exactly do you evidence something like that, simply saying it doesn't prove anything.   

[Argus]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You're the positive claimant maintaining Trudeau's inaction led to more deaths than acting would have prevented.  How exactly do you evidence something like that, simply saying it doesn't prove anything.   

Sorry bud, but you got that ass backwards. I responded to Bubber praising him for doing a good job by asking what he's done. So far no one has come up with anything he's done other than not being Trump.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Argus

[Shady]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

Donald Trump's lack of response and continuous confusion about the virus isn't exactly earning him a lot of praise. And what the hell is with putting his idiot son in law in charge?

Until now, I have generally been reluctant to label Donald Trump the worst president in U.S. history. As a historian, I know how important it is to allow the passage of time to gain a sense of perspective. Some presidents who seemed awful to contemporaries (Harry S. Truman) or simply lackluster (Dwight D. Eisenhower, George H.W. Bush) look much better in retrospect. Others, such as Thomas Jefferson and Woodrow Wilson, don’t look as good as they once did.

So I have written, as I did on March 12, that Trump is the worst president in modern times — not of all time. That left open the possibility that James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce, Warren Harding or some other nonentity would be judged more harshly. But in the past month, we have seen enough to take away the qualifier “in modern times.” With his catastrophic mishandling of the coronavirus, Trump has established himself as the worst president in U.S. history.

The Post article is the most thorough dissection of Trump’s failure to prepare for the gathering storm. Trump was first briefed on the coronavirus by Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar on Jan. 18. But, The Post writes, “Azar told several associates that the president believed he was ‘alarmist’ and Azar struggled to get Trump’s attention to focus on the issue.” When Trump was first asked publicly about the virus, on Jan. 22, he said, “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China.”

In the days and weeks after Azar alerted him about the virus, Trump spoke at eight rallies and golfed six times as if he didn’t have a care in the world.

Donald Trump is the worst president in history

I don’t really know what people mean by lack of response.  Trump did more, sooner than we did,  Regardless, deranged people like Max Boot were the first ones calling Trump’s China travel ban xenophobic.  These people are in a rush to re-write history.

[Shady]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

At least the federal government has contacted the provinces, asked what they need, and then is making one major order to distribute to the provinces. Trump has basically said "Every man for himself!" and set the states loose to try and locate their own PPE and ventilators, getting into desperate bidding wars with each other and driving up the prices.

That’s complete nonsense.  The states are free to acquire any equipment they think they need.  Just as provinces are doing.  Trump was in contact with all the major medical producers weeks ago, coordinating production.  Trudeau just began this process on March 31st.  Just more people trying to re-write history.  This is from 3 weeks ago.  Of the supposed no response.  Stop listening to fake news.

Trump Authorizes Defence Production Act To Mobilize Business

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-hold-news-conference-fda-developments-coronavirus-n1162641

[eyeball]

48 minutes ago, Argus said:

Sorry bud, but you got that ass backwards. I responded to Bubber praising him for doing a good job by asking what he's done. So far no one has come up with anything he's done other than not being Trump.

And you're backing away from any sort of answer that doesn't leave Trudeau in a bad light and without quantifying why you think the answer is wrong.  As far as quantifying anything does  go Canada has a lot less rate of death and infections and flatter curves to point at than the apparent Orange standard for doing a good job.

It doesn't matter which way your ass is pointed to see that.  I guess one can gaze at this particular navel from the inside out if they choose but they'd have to particularly good at yoga to do so. 

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Shady said:

That’s complete nonsense.  The states are free to acquire any equipment they think they need.  Just as provinces are doing.  Trump was in contact with all the major medical producers weeks ago, coordinating production.  Trudeau just began this process on March 31st.  Just more people trying to re-write history.  This is from 3 weeks ago.  Of the supposed no response.  Stop listening to fake news.

Trump Authorizes Defence Production Act To Mobilize Business

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-hold-news-conference-fda-developments-coronavirus-n1162641

Multiple governors have complained about this. As for him getting in touch with medical producers...

Federal purchasing records, however, show the Trump administration delayed making big orders for additional supplies until the virus had taken root and was spreading. HHS first announced its intent to purchase 500 million N95 masks on March 4, with plans to distribute them over the next 18 months.
...

Federal contracting records show that HHS had made an initial order March 12 for $4.8 million of N95 masks from 3M, the largest U.S.-based manufacturer, which had ramped up production weeks earlier in response to the pandemic. HHS followed up with a larger $173 million order on March 21, but those contracts don't require 3M to start making deliveries to the national stockpile until the end of April. That's after the White House has projected the pandemic will reach its peak. On Thursday, Trump threatened in a Tweet to “hit 3M hard" through a Defense Production Act order, saying the company “will have a big price to pay!” He gave no specifics.

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/article241781571.html#storylink=cpy

 

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/article241781571.html#storylink=cpy

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/article241781571.html#storylink=cpy

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Shady said:

I don’t really know what people mean by lack of response.  Trump did more, sooner than we did,  Regardless, deranged people like Max Boot were the first ones calling Trump’s China travel ban xenophobic.  These people are in a rush to re-write history.

I don't judge things by what people like Max Boot say (max boot??) but by their actions. I give Trump credit for closing down air travel earlier than others. It was the right thing to do. It's just everything else he's failed at.

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, Shady said:

Just more people trying to re-write history.  This is from 3 weeks ago.  Of the supposed no response.  Stop listening to fake news.

Trump Authorizes Defence Production Act To Mobilize Business

Speaking of history I thought you said the Defense Act only authorized the government to ask business to produce stuff. You were refuting the idea the government could control the means of production when you said that. Mobilize seems a little more robust a term than asking nicely don't you think, especially when diverting, cancelling or queue jumping legitimate orders from legitimate customers?

How come you put so little effort into carrying water for Canada when it comes to Trump's running roughshod over America's best trading partner?

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

I give Trump credit for closing down air travel earlier than others.

Why, when it was clearly a facade.

Quote

There were 1,300 direct flights to 17 cities before President Trump’s travel restrictions. Since then, nearly 40,000 Americans and other authorized travelers have made the trip, some this past week and many with spotty screening.

 “Besides looking at our passports, they didn’t question us like we normally are questioned,” said Ms. Fitch, who had been teaching English in China. “So it was kind of weird, because everyone expected the opposite, where you get a lot of questions. But once we filled out the little health form, no one really cared.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-china-travel-restrictions.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

 

Quote

It was the right thing to do. It's just everything else he's failed at.

It was an unmitigated disaster - it created a false sense of security in the US and its utterly piss poor execution made so much of what else he failed to do even worse.

Trudeau couldn't have done a worse job if he'd wanted to.

Edited April 6, 2020 by eyeball

[Boges]

TDS! TDS! TDS!

The new "Us vs Them" thing is this drug that has shown "some" promise in treating the disease. 

Trump is like "What do we have to lose". Actual responsible scientists say it requires far more study to be widely distributed. 

Yesterday he actually prevented Dr. Fauci from answering a question about the drug hydroxychloroquine. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/06/coronavirus-trump-interrupts-fauci-hydroxychloroquine-question/2952931001/

Quote

 

“He’s answered that question 15 times,” said Trump, who had spent much of the news conference touting the drug's potential.

Earlier in the day, Fauci did answer a question about hydroxychloroquine when he was on CBS's "Face the Nation." 

“The data are really, just, at best, suggestive,” he said. “There have been cases that show there may be an effect and there are others to show there's no effect. So, I think in terms of science, I don't think we could definitively say it works.”

 

Sure as a last resort if the person is going to die regardless. But not as a miracle first line of treatment. This shouldn't be seen as a drug that'll save everyone. Which is how it's being framed. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Boges

[BubberMiley]

The only logical explanation for his single-minded focus on that snake oil is he has some kind of stake in it and will profit from it. Of course, his supporters will coo about how entrepreneurial he was in trying to help out.

Yesterday in his infomercial about the drug, he even refused to allow Fauci to answer a question about its dangers. An obvious grift if I ever saw one.

Edited April 6, 2020 by BubberMiley

[Boges]

58 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

The only logical explanation for his single-minded focus on that snake oil is he has some kind of stake in it and will profit from it. Of course, his supporters will coo about how entrepreneurial he was in trying to help out.

Yesterday in his infomercial about the drug, he even refused to allow Fauci to answer a question about its dangers. An obvious grift if I ever saw one.

He's clearly watch Contagion and saw the windfall Jude Law's character got peddling Forsythia. 

That was his main takeaway from that movie. 

[Rue]

The split in jurisdiction between the federal and state governments in the US presents a different legal forum than the one between our federal government and the provinces. Our PM in the sense of imposing health policies has less constitutional barriers. That explains some not all of Trump 's hands off approaches...however he has engaged in needless partisanship with Cuomo and his own party argues he is to laissez faire  over some states not shutting down. He has made unhelpful comments about medical supply shortages and medical treatment initiatives. Trudeau is far more controlled as to what he is allowed to say. Both have no real day to day connection to the actual managers of the pandemic.

Trump's ego and narcissistic personality disorder causes him to try one up anyone on anything which explains his snake oil obsession. He needs to be the smartest one in the room and center of attention but he  has no power to distribute new medications without proper testing..he is just blowing the usual narcissistic hot air...I would spend my attention  on  Fauci not him.

He has no stake he just is jealous of Fauci. Psychology 101 no sinister pharmaceutical buy in.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Rue

[Argus]

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

Why, when it was clearly a facade.

It banned foreigners. No one can ban their own citizens from returning.

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

It was an unmitigated disaster - it created a false sense of security in the US and its utterly piss poor execution made so much of what else he failed to do even worse.

They already had the false sense of security and piss poor execution. Not banning foreign travel would have improved neither of these things.

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

Trudeau couldn't have done a worse job if he'd wanted to.

The piss-poor execution might have happened but the feds weren't responsible for testing. We've certainly been just as bad as your cite says the Americans are at screening those Canadians returning from China or Iran or the US.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

...Trump's ego and narcissistic personality disorder causes him to try one up anyone on anything which explains his snake oil obsession. He needs to be the smartest one in the room and center of attention but he  has no power to distribute new medications without proper testing..he is just blowing the usual narcissistic hot air...I would spend my attention  on  Fauci not him.

 

If Trump is going to be held accountable as president, then he sure as hell will do things his way.

Even Canada spends a lot of attention on Fauci, but the doctors on either side of the border have never gotten ahead of this pandemic from day one.  

Presidents and prime ministers want answers and solutions, not more questions and problems.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by bush_cheney2004