Trump Vs Trudeau on Coronavirus

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

I've explained the importance of social distancing and explained why there is no way to avoid damaging the economy until there is a cure or a vaccine. You just keep blathering on about overreach, panic and South Korea without answering any of the difficult questions you are asked or backing up your soundbites.

I answered your questions, and backed up my soundbites. You simply did not like the answers and pretended I never gave any.

I also didn't disagree with the importance of social distancing, nor did I claim it was possible to avoid damaging the economy until there a cure or vaccine.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Iceni warrior]

4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I never said that was his position. I pulled the Iceni Cannibal and asked a dumb question with an obvious answer, except I actually illustrated a larger point while doing so, unlike you.

Nope, you asked a meaningless question about a position no one has held to distract from your weak position so you could argue against that instead. The dictionary definition of a strawman.

[Boges]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

I answered your questions, and backed up my soundbites.

So do you understand why the South Korean response is not an option at this point? 

[Yzermandius19]

1 minute ago, Iceni warrior said:

Nope, you asked a meaningless question about a position no one has held to distract from your weak position so you could argue against that instead. The dictionary definition of a strawman.

Nope. I asked with an obvious answer. I ascribed no position to Boges with those questions.

[Yzermandius19]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

So do you understand why the South Korean response is not an option at this point? 

It is an option. Just because there are limitations in other countries that South Korea didn't have, that doesn't mean we should follow the least successful models and ignore the most successful models as if there is nothing to be learned from them because circumstances were a little different. The idea that those destroying their economies the most are doing the best job combating the virus is not backed by the facts, it is mere wishful thinking.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Iceni warrior]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I answered your questions, and backed up my soundbites. You simply did not like the answers and pretended I never gave any.

I also didn't disagree with the importance of social distancing, nor did I claim it was possible to avoid damaging the economy until there a cure or vaccine.

Yet you are ranting about the damage social distancing is doing to the economy without offering any alternatives. You cannot give us any answers as to how we can carry out social distancing without closing shops and factories.

You have less substance than a fart.

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

Yet you are ranting about the damage social distancing is doing to the economy without offering any alternatives. You cannot give us any answers as to how we can carry out social distancing without closing shops and factories.

You have less substance than a fart.

I am ranting about the damage that government mandates are doing to the economy while offering alternatives. If people want to social distance on their own accord, I don't begrudge them at all, the government forcing them to, especially in extremely economically damaging ways, that is what I begrudge.

Try again, this time without Strawman Yzermandias, if you are even capable of doing so.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Boges]

4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

It is an option. Just because there are limitations in other countries that South Korea didn't have, that doesn't mean we should follow the least successful models and ignore the most successful models as if there is nothing to be learned from them because circumstances were a little different. The idea that those destroying their economies the most are doing the best job combating the virus is not backed by the facts, it is mere wishful thinking.

Not for the US. Canada has been testing all along and aren't seeing such widespread outbreaks. The entire Greater Toronto Area has seen less than 10 deaths. 

But the US didn't have testing infrastructure from the get-go and are no past the point where testing even really matters. 

Even if you don't agree with closing "non-essential" businesses, which is what Ontario is doing, you'd have to concede that going to the movies, or a beach, or a restaurant or a bar are not good ideas in this climate. 

[Iceni warrior]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I am ranting about the damage that government mandates are doing to the economy while offering alternatives. Try again, this time without Strawman Yzermandias, if you are even capable of doing so.

OK, I'll ask you again what those alternative options are. See if you can answer the question this time rather than saying it's a stupid question or pretending you have already answered it.

I'll wait, I'm not going out any time soon.

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

Not for the US. Canada has been testing all along and aren't seeing such widespread outbreaks. The entire Greater Toronto Area has seen less than 10 deaths. 

But the US didn't have testing infrastructure from the get-go and are no past the point where testing even really matters. 

Even if you don't agree with closing "non-essential" businesses, which is what Ontario is doing, you'd have to concede that going to the movies, or a beach, or a restaurant or a bar are not good ideas in this climate. 

Dude Canada is doing little better than America, the idea that Canada can follow the South Korean model and America cannot, makes no sense whatsover. I concede that they are bad ideas, that doesn't mean the government should be forcibly shutting them down long before the peak hits. If they want to shut down on their own accord, that's their decision.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Yzermandius19]

Just now, Iceni warrior said:

OK, I'll ask you again what those alternative options are. See if you can answer the question this time rather than saying it's a stupid question or pretending you have already answered it.

I'll wait, I'm not going out any time soon.

I gave you alternative options, if you don't like the answer, that doesn't mean I didn't give one.

Besides even if I had no plan like Strawman Yzermandias, No Plan > Counter-Productive Plan.

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Dude Canada is doing little better than America, the idea that Canada can follow the South Korean model and America cannot, makes no sense whatsover. I concede that they are bad ideas, that doesn't mean the government should be forcibly shutting them down long before the peak hits.

In terms of deaths and cases the US has more than twice as many Per Capita. 

And to your rhetoric about shutting down the economy. We're shutting down portions of the economy where transmission is more likely. EG Large gatherings. 

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

In terms of deaths and cases the US has more than twice as many Per Capita. 

And to your rhetoric about shutting down the economy. We're shutting down portions of the economy where transmission is more likely. EG Large gatherings. 

Wrong. Canada has more per capita deaths now, you haven't checked the number recently have you?

They are shutting down small gatherings too, not just large ones, and shutting down a lot of gatherings destroys the economy, since a lot of the economy revolves around such gatherings.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Boges]

For perspective. 

This week, the US is adding around 100 deaths per day. Canada still hasn't gone past 30 total. 

The US is adding more than double the new cases a day than Canada's total since the outbreak began. 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Wrong. Canada has more per capita deaths now, you haven't checked the number recently have you?

They are shutting down small gatherings too, not just large ones, and shutting down all gatherings destroys the economy, since a lot of the economy revolves around gatherings.

What's your definition of small gatherings? 

What numbers are you going off of?

600+ vs 25

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Edited March 24, 2020 by Boges

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

What's your definition of small gatherings? 

Non-essential businesses that are forced to close include those with small gatherings, not just large ones. In fact some businesses with large gatherings are kept open, because they are essential, while other smaller gatherings are shut down because they aren't.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Iceni warrior]

9 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I gave you alternative options, if you don't like the answer, that doesn't mean I didn't give one.

Besides even if I had no plan like Strawman Yzermandias, No Plan > Counter-Productive Plan.

Remind me what those alternative options where then because all I remember you doing is refusing to give any.

[Boges]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Non-essential businesses that are forced to close include those with small gatherings, not just large ones.

So like people shopping at a grocery store? We can still do that. 

[Yzermandius19]

9 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

Remind me what those alternative options where then because all I remember you doing is refusing to give any.

I said follow the South Korean model, test and isolate the sick, isolating the sick and reducing their ability to spread the virus does not require shutting down a big chunk of the economy. It will spread a little faster than if you shut everything down, but it also won't do anywhere near as much economic damage either, while not increasing so much that it becomes some huge issue, as South Korea already proved was possible, disproving the theory that shutting everything down is the only way to go. The success stories of nations that didn't go that far despite being heavily hit by the Coronavirus proves that this is a false assumption.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Boges]

And to obliterate that idea that lockdown's aren't the only solution. India is about to do a 3-week lockdown, even though they've faired well fighting the disease. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/24/asia/india-lockdown-coronavirus-intl/index.html

Quote

 

"You have seen the worldwide situations arising from the coronavirus pandemic in the news. You have also seen how the most powerful nations have become helpless in the face of this pandemic," Modi said in a live televised address to the nation on Tuesday evening ahead of the deadline.

India is the world's second most populous country and the fifth biggest economy, but so far, it has appeared to avoid the full hit of the pandemic. The country has confirmed 519 coronavirus cases, including 10 deaths and 39 patients who have been cured, according to the Ministry of Health.

A number of Indian states have ordered lockdowns in the past few days, in an attempt to stop the virus from spreading. International borders have been shut to most travelers coming from the Europe.

 

 

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I said follow the South Korean model, test and isolate the sick, isolating the sick and reducing their ability to spread the virus does not require shutting down a big chunk of the economy. It will spread a little faster than if you shut everything down, but it also won't do anywhere near as much economic damage either, while not increasing so much that it becomes some huge issue, as South Korea already proved was possible, disproving the theory that shutting everything down is the only way to go. The success stories of nations that didn't go that far proves that.

So how are you going to test everyone if you really can only test the sick right now? 

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Boges

[Yzermandius19]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

And to obliterate that idea that lockdown's aren't the only solution. India is about to do a 3-week lockdown, even though they've faired well fighting the disease. 

India overreacting does not obliterate the idea that lockdowns aren't the only solution, it just proves that India chooses to focus on ineffective or counter-productive solutions.

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I said follow the South Korean model, test and isolate the sick, isolating the sick and reducing their ability to spread the virus does not require shutting down a big chunk of the economy. It will spread a little faster than if you shut everything down, but it also won't do anywhere near as much economic damage either, while not increasing so much that it becomes some huge issue, as South Korea already proved was possible, disproving the theory that shutting everything down is the only way to go. The success stories of nations that didn't go that far proves that.

You do know that people are infectious days before they become sick AND some of the infected don't show symptoms. 

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

So how are you going to test everyone if you really can only test the sick right now? 

You don't have to test everyone, just as many as it makes sense test given the amount of tests available. The more tests you have at your disposal the better this strategy works, but it doesn't mean it can't work better than shutting down the economy unless absolutely everyone can be tested, that simply does not follow.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Yzermandius19]

Just now, Boges said:

You do know that people are infectious days before they become sick AND some of the infected don't show symptoms. 

*yip*
So what?