Trump Vs Trudeau on Coronavirus

[bush_cheney2004]

12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I agree with your first and third paragraphs, but actually Trudeau has been in our living rooms every day, as have our premiers, health ministers, and public health officers.  I have seen Trump too, but not as much as our own leaders.  I’ve actually seen more of Gov. Cuomo than Trump.  

 

Which is exactly my point....for whatever current or historical reason(s), you consume media that also provides American actions and policies, which lends itself to direct comparisons.    Americans largely do not get such exposure to the Canadian response unless they seek it out, which very few do.

Canada didn't even have the PHAC (CDC equivalent) until the SARS fiasco pointed out gaps in the system and uncoordinated federal/provincial policy.

Most Canadians could tell you what the CDC & FDA was long before that.

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

21 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Which is exactly my point....for whatever current or historical reason(s), you consume media that also provides American actions and policies, which lends itself to direct comparisons.    Americans largely do not get such exposure to the Canadian response unless they seek it out, which very few do.

Canada didn't even have the PHAC (CDC equivalent) until the SARS fiasco pointed out gaps in the system and uncoordinated federal/provincial policy.

Most Canadians could tell you what the CDC & FDA was long before that.

 

Well we didn’t have a stand alone version of the CDC perhaps, but Canadian Food Inspection Agency enforces food regulations and Health Canada has a broad mandate that is probably more helpful to data collection and enforcing public health policy because you don’t have siloed HMO’s and independent hospitals, though there is private funding too

I actually worry about your Dr. Fauci, because he clearly has to bow to Trump’s direction.  Fauci should be front and centre down there.  Dr. Tam is essentially leading our federal public health response.  Governments are basically handling economic policy and health procurement, but that procurement is in direct response to projections of health demand.  

Edited April 10, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well we didn’t have a stand alone version of the CDC perhaps, but Canadian Food Inspection Agency enforces food regulations and Health Canada has a broad mandate that is probably more helpful to data collection and enforcing public health policy because you don’t have siloed HMO’s and independent hospitals, though there is private funding too.  

 

Still, the point here is that many Canadians looked to the U.S. CDC (& FDA) to inform them regardless of whether Canada had the functional equivalent at any level.    Canadian media has long quoted and referenced American federal agencies in that regard.   Most Americans have no idea what the PHAC is.

Establishing the PHAC was only one of many recommendations coming out of the post-SARS reviews in Canada.   Hopefully such actions have been helpful for the COVID19 response.

 

 

 

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Still, the point here is that many Canadians looked to the U.S. CDC (& FDA) to inform them regardless of whether Canada had the functional equivalent at any level.    Canadian media has long quoted and referenced American federal agencies in that regard.   Most Americans have no idea what the PHAC is.

Establishing the PHAC was only one of many recommendations coming out of the post-SARS reviews in Canada.   Hopefully such actions have been helpful for the COVID19 response.

 

 

 

I think it is helpful.  

[bush_cheney2004]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think it is helpful.  

 

Agreed...it was a gap that has been closed.

For the larger issue of Trump vs. Trudeau or even president vs. prime minister,  many Canadians will make such comparisons reflexively (long before COVID19), while far fewer Americans will do the same.   Canadian media consistently provides a steady dose of the American narrative to facilitate such comparisons.   Not so much in reverse.

I expect Trump to push earlier for recovery because he has more to lose if the U.S. economy does not improve before the election.  Trudeau has far less concern with being turfed by no-confidence vote because budgets are already blown to deficit hell.

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed...it was a gap that has been closed.

For the larger issue of Trump vs. Trudeau or even president vs. prime minister,  many Canadians will make such comparisons reflexively (long before COVID19), while far fewer Americans will do the same.   Canadian media consistently provides a steady dose of the American narrative to facilitate such comparisons.   Not so much in reverse.

I expect Trump to push earlier for recovery because he has more to lose if the U.S. economy does not improve before the election.  Trudeau has far less concern with being turfed by no-confidence vote because budgets are already blown to deficit hell.

 

I don’t think either leader has a clear exit strategy for a return to work.  I realize that’s because they are consumed by the present challenge of dealing with the medical crisis and we’re still learning about the disease.  Nevertheless, markets hate uncertainty.  People hate living under an endless threat.  Better order needs to be brought to the chaos to prevent social breakdown.  We’ve seen modeling projections of numbers of deaths and hospitalizations for different scenarios in Canada.  For example, without doing anything we might have seen 100,000 deaths in Ontario.  With strict measures we might see 3000.  Great, so we’re trying to take fairly strong measures.  Now, if we start to see those numbers really decline, what happens next?  Keeping most people indoors indefinitely is not a plan.

[Shady]

56 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I don’t think either leader has a clear exit strategy for a return to work.  I realize that’s because they are consumed by the present challenge of dealing with the medical crisis and we’re still learning about the disease.  Nevertheless, markets hate uncertainty.  People hate living under an endless threat.  Better order needs to be brought to the chaos to prevent social breakdown.  We’ve seen modeling projections of numbers of deaths and hospitalizations for different scenarios in Canada.  For example, without doing anything we might have seen 100,000 deaths in Ontario.  With strict measures we might see 3000.  Great, so we’re trying to take fairly strong measures.  Now, if we start to see those numbers really decline, what happens next?  Keeping most people indoors indefinitely is not a plan.

I think as the numbers go down, as long as there is a structure in place to test, contact trace, and isolate, society can open up again.

[bush_cheney2004]

53 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I don’t think either leader has a clear exit strategy for a return to work.  I realize that’s because they are consumed by the present challenge of dealing with the medical crisis and we’re still learning about the disease.  Nevertheless, markets hate uncertainty.  People hate living under an endless threat.  Better order needs to be brought to the chaos to prevent social breakdown. 

 

It was government that ordered the shut downs more so than citizens screaming to be quarantined.   Pressure will build to make sure the cure is not worse than the disease, and a new normal of distancing and flu-like mortality numbers will just become part of the landscape, with or without a vaccine.

 

Quote

We’ve seen modeling projections of numbers of deaths and hospitalizations for different scenarios in Canada.  For example, without doing anything we might have seen 100,000 deaths in Ontario.  With strict measures we might see 3000.  Great, so we’re trying to take fairly strong measures.  Now, if we start to see those numbers really decline, what happens next?  Keeping most people indoors indefinitely is not a plan.

 

The models are already beginning to break down, with less observed severity and wide variation depending on location.   There is no one size fits all solution for restarting the economy.    Once a better testing regimen is in place then we are ready for the next phase, which will include future spikes.

Good reason for smokers to quit.

[Boges]

On 4/10/2020 at 1:56 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Canada and the U.S. are different nations, with different approaches to politics, public policy, health care, population density, etc.  

Based on what I can see in respective media, Canadians are getting and watching a lot more of Trump's actions and task team than Americans are seeing about Trudeau & ministers.   Many Canadians know who Dr. Fauci is.

As posted above, I think a lot of people mistakenly believe that a president or prime minister has such a large impact on the ground, where state/provincial & local execution matter far more.   

A lot of it is watching the train wreck of lies and self promotion. A lot less lately as it's mostly useless drivel. 

It was noted on Bill Maher last night that this actually should put a lot of people's mind at ease that Trump doesn't have the attention span or will power to actually successfully be a dictator. He's done very little to centralize power. 

Silver Lining I suppose. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

A lot of it is watching the train wreck of lies and self promotion. A lot less lately as it's mostly useless drivel.

 

Sure, but it runs much deeper than that.   Canada likes to compare and contrast itself with the United States at many levels...for a very long time.  It courses through Canadian media and culture as normalized and expected.    Today there is a piece about the lack of racialized pandemic data in Canada vs. the U.S.

I actually applaud writers and producers in Canada who manage to communicate issues and content without making reference to Americans or the U.S. government.   It's a crutch they are loathe to get rid of.

 

Quote

It was noted on Bill Maher last night that this actually should put a lot of people's mind at ease that Trump doesn't have the attention span or will power to actually successfully be a dictator. He's done very little to centralize power. 

Silver Lining I suppose. 

 

Trump is just another U.S. president, as I have maintained all along.   People who chose to get their panties in a knot on either side of the border were just primed to do so by their own fears and bias.   Bill Maher laughed when Ann Coulter predicted Trump would win the GOP nomination.  

 

 

[Rue]

On 4/10/2020 at 10:42 AM, Shady said:

I think as the numbers go down, as long as there is a structure in place to test, contact trace, and isolate, society can open up again.

Hope so.

[Rue]

On 4/10/2020 at 2:23 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Well we didn’t have a stand alone version of the CDC perhaps, but Canadian Food Inspection Agency enforces food regulations and Health Canada has a broad mandate that is probably more helpful to data collection and enforcing public health policy because you don’t have siloed HMO’s and independent hospitals, though there is private funding too

I actually worry about your Dr. Fauci, because he clearly has to bow to Trump’s direction.  Fauci should be front and centre down there.  Dr. Tam is essentially leading our federal public health response.  Governments are basically handling economic policy and health procurement, but that procurement is in direct response to projections of health demand.  

I do not think he bows once the cameras are off.

[Boges]

I find it interesting that it's Trump that's pining for the border to re-open. No Canadian leader is all that eager right now. 

Especially considering the current state of Michigan and New York. 

[BubberMiley]

51 minutes ago, Boges said:

I find it interesting that it's Trump that's pining for the border to re-open. No Canadian leader is all that eager right now. 

Especially considering the current state of Michigan and New York. 

Not to mention South Dakota. It's a stark contrast at the border here in Manitoba where our Conservative government took it seriously early on and we literally have a handful of new cases this week and the number of active cases is steadily declining. In South Dakota, they've had hundreds and hundreds of new cases because their leadership took the White House advice to downplay and try and ignore it. North Dakota is a little better off at more than 10 times the cases per capita compared to Manitoba, but still a shitshow of bad leadership.

Edited April 17, 2020 by BubberMiley

[Shady]

2 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

Not to mention South Dakota. It's a stark contrast at the border here in Manitoba where our Conservative government took it seriously early on and we literally have a handful of new cases this week and the number of active cases is steadily declining. In South Dakota, they've had hundreds and hundreds of new cases because their leadership took the White House advice to downplay and try and ignore it. North Dakota is a little better off at more than 10 times the cases per capita compared to Manitoba, but still a shitshow of bad leadership.

New York and Michigan are showing significant declines in cases and hospitalizations.  I’m fact, New York is now discharging more people than they’re admitting.  South Dakota has barely any cases and only 7 deaths total.  It’s a non factor.  Regardless, before any state can move to phase 1 of reopening, they must have declines for 14 days.  Canadian leaders aren’t in the same position because our peak is probably a week or two later than theirs.  But I’m sure it’ll happen with phases tied to cases and hospitalizations.  So this is much ado about nothing.  More people taking Trump literally, but not seriously.  When it’s the opposite.  I think we’ve already had this discussion before.  But you still haven’t learned anything.  Either have others it seems.  Instead they hang on every word, parsing every vowel and syllable.  I guess pseudo outrage helps pass the time these days.  It’s just rinse and repeat day after day.  Don’t you people find it exhausting?

[Boges]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

 I think we’ve already had this discussion before.  But you still haven’t learned anything.  Either have others it seems.  Instead they hang on every word, parsing every vowel and syllable.  I guess pseudo outrage helps pass the time these days.  It’s just rinse and repeat day after day.  Don’t you people find it exhausting?

Don't you find it exhausting defending a guy that's focusing on picking fights on Twitter every day, demanding gratitude for letting Federal government do its job? 

The thing about Trump is that most of what most concede what he says is BS. But then these daily briefing aren't an exercise in public health, they're an exercise in PR. They're actually damaging because they're political rallies under the guise of serving the public good. 

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

The thing about Trump is that most of what most concede what he says is BS. But then these daily briefing aren't an exercise in public health, they're an exercise in PR. They're actually damaging because they're political rallies under the guise of serving the public good. 

 

Trump should leave the border closed long after Trudeau and Canada start whining to open it up.   

Twice as many Canadians cross the border than Americans.

For all his "BS", Canadians are still watching and reacting to Trump's daily briefings.  

Why ?

 

[Boges]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Trump should leave the border closed long after Trudeau and Canada start whining to open it up.   

Twice as many Canadians cross the border than Americans.

For all his "BS", Canadians are still watching and reacting to Trump's daily briefings.  

Why ?

Probably why Trump wants it open. 

Many Americans see the financial benefit in having a good relationship with Canada. 

They're not just old people yelling "America First!" at Clouds. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Boges

[BubberMiley]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

New York and Michigan are showing significant declines in cases and hospitalizations.  I’m fact, New York is now discharging more people than they’re admitting.  South Dakota has barely any cases and only 7 deaths total.  It’s a non factor. 

South Dakota is now a hotspot. Nearly a 1000 new cases just this week because of their halfwit governor.  You should feel shame that you're still spreading misinformation about this virus because of your insane loyalty to the GOP death cult.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Boges said:

Probably why Trump wants it open. 

Many Americans see the financial gain in having a good relationship with Canada. 

 

But many Americans do not watch Trudeau's daily briefings, not even as a sleeping aid.

Trump mentioned Gilead's remdesivir weeks ago...now Canada knows why after watching more American media.

[Boges]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

But many Americans do not watch Trudeau's daily briefings, not even as a sleeping aid.

Trump mentioned Gilead's remdesivir weeks ago...now Canada knows why after watching more American media.

Nice Pivot from your inane border comment. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

Nice Pivot from your inane border comment. 

 

It's all the same....closed border or not....Canada watches Trump and America....as always.

Not even the COVID19 plague will ever change that.

Keep the border closed...no more snowbirds !

[Boges]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

Keep the border closed...no more snowbirds !

I'm sure places that benefit from Snowbirds would have issue with that statement. 

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Boges said:

I'm sure places that benefit from Snowbirds would have issue with that statement. 

 

Sure they would....so what ?

The annual exodus of Canadians fleeing their country (and coming back) represents non-essential risk during pandemics and plague.

Stay home....

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Sure they would....so what ?

The annual exodus of Canadians fleeing their country (and coming back) represents non-essential risk during pandemics and plague.

Stay home....

I suspect they will too, for the foreseeable future. 

At a great economic hardship for certain key swing state governors. 

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/328621-ron-desantis-threatens-budget-cuts-amid-coronavirus-economy

Edited April 17, 2020 by Boges