Pipeline protestors need to be jailed

[eyeball]

On 2/18/2020 at 4:15 PM, scribblet said:

Also this is more about politics and issues between the various Chiefs.. read this...https://www.jlsreport.com/.../16/wolves-in-fancy-blankets/

The issue certainly encompasses politics between different chiefs and levels of governments. Nepotism is a human frailty alright, but note Terri Tiljoe also says 

Quote

The cause is honourable, we need to protect the planet and I respect people’s right protest but when I see and hear millions of dollars raised to individuals under fake names, images showing “protesters” in $800.00 jackets driving brand new trucks, vans, snowmobiles with top of the line cell phones for live video broadcast, “protesters” with unlimited funds to forage for food at the local restuarants and stores, access to dry heated shelter and $500.00 honorariums paid to Chiefs to show up and protest, I can’t help but question what is really going on.

And question she should. There's rarely a good reason to not question the decisions or actions of anyone in power in any society.  I've seen and heard accounts of nepotism in my region too but I've never heard of anyone hereabouts feel like throwing out or replacing their traditional means of governing themselves and making the band council and elected chiefs their senior or only level of government.  The victims of nepotism have probably never had a better opportunity to do something about it as near as I can see.  Its a fruit of greater self-determination that individual natives are also coming to appreciate in post treaty times.   Seeing your community speak up for its rights empowers individuals to do so too. 

Pitting native people, families and bands against one another is an old old colonial trick native people everywhere are very aware of. Trying to pretend the elected chiefs are the sole voice authorizing native decisions is exactly where Trudeau screwed up and conservatives are screaming at him to drive that wedge even deeper.

As noted earlier nothing but nothing will guarantee slowing down pipeline and other resource development in this country faster than picking sides in a conflict 1st Nations people need to solve themselves.  It's how we progressed.

Edited February 20, 2020 by eyeball

[Dougie93]

Moderate Grand Chief Serge Simon, calling for a stand down of the blockades,  facing a mutiny in his own ranks.

 

Quote

 

‘He’s not our voice’: Kanesatake Mohawks barricade band office after grand chief criticizes rail blockades

https://aptnnews.ca/2020/02/18/hes-not-our-voice-kanesatake-mohawks-barricade-band-office-after-grand-chief-criticizes-rail-blockades/

 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

6 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Manifest Destiny.

Mrs Hanover, tear down this wall.

 

OK...I guess more of these will be sold soon:

 

 

 

Quote

There are few greater tragedies than a war waged by a society against itself. As Time Bomb shows, a catastrophic confrontation between Canada’s so-called “settler” and First Nations communities is not only feasible, it is, in theory, inevitable. Grievances, prejudice, and other factors all combine to make the likelihood of a First Nations uprising very real.

https://www.amazon.com/Time-Bomb-Canada-First-Nations/dp/1459727878

 

[betsy]

7 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Moderate Grand Chief Serge Simon, calling for a stand down of the blockades,  facing a mutiny in his own ranks.

 

 

Is he the one who ended up retracting?   There's a chief who retracted.

[Army Guy]

On 2/18/2020 at 9:14 PM, jacee said:

I expect the Crown to consult with the Aboriginal rights holders for the whole territory. It's the law. 

BC refused ... quite rudely.

The feds are requesting that now.

 

Yes it is law to consult, but they do not have power of veto, if it is the nations best interest. And when consulting failed for first nations they changed the rules, the elected council means squat....

[Goddess]

Alberta says, "Hold my beer while I handle this" 

https://www.thepostmillennial.com/watch-edmonton-locals-tear-down-anti-pipeline-blockade-and-load-it-into-truck/?fbclid=IwAR3rbSv_ZjiCeAw_wuTI6OwYryQ2qfgrqmX2J_UG4LpDFwCuxWHOcmXMAY0

 

 

[Dougie93]

4 hours ago, betsy said:

Is he the one who ended up retracting?   There's a chief who retracted.

Yeah, that's the one.   He backtracked right quick in the face of the mob.

[Dougie93]

6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

OK...I guess more of these will be sold soon:

 

 

 

 

The book is over the top in terms of the final catastrophe, for example I don't think NORTHCOM would actually employ air strikes in Canada.

None the less, the general outline of the Indians getting all riled up behind a Greta Thunberg type character and then taking things too far, that part is very plausible.

[Shady]

19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think there are differences but most of them are in tone IMO.

So the 3 hours vs 2 weeks (and still counting) isn't a big difference to you?  And the fact that Harper organized a meeting with all parties involved, vs Trudeau, as of now, not doing so, isn't a big difference to you?  You're really undermining your credibility with statements like these.

[Shady]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

Only at the level of band council which is to say a level subordinate to traditional Mohawk leadership.

It's great to see such intransigent stubborn unwillingness to appreciate the issue for what it is.  It means the day our pipelines start fueling the growth of China's dictatorship are further in the future.  Maybe by the time we figure it out China's dictatorship will be overthrown and selling to China won't be a concern and we'll all be using something green to energize our lives.

Yours is a false argument, because even if we agreed not to sell China any oil, you still wouldn't be in favour of the pipeline or it's oil production.  So stop pretending otherwise.  It's laughable.

[Moonlight Graham]

On 2/19/2020 at 3:37 AM, Dougie93 said:

Their provinces are the only things functioning,  hence why they haven't noticed yet that Confederation is gone. 

The Indians however,  don't live in the provinces,  hence why they have noticed.

Still spouting the same nonsense I see.  Confederation is still here, the provinces are still all joined.  I fight with my family sometimes, it happens, but we still choose to live under the same roof.  This is no different.  Canada will continue for a 150 more years and beyond.

[Dougie93]

The Indians have also read the Douglas Bland book it seems, because they have clearly taken the lesson as to how to bring the Settlers to their knees, sever the rail lines.

I note that the RCAF has purchased a set of 3 Hawker Beechcraft MC-12S Liberty Constant Hawk EMARSS for CANSOFCOM,  FMS from the Pentagon

Now that's the kind of platform you need for COIN in Canader, the F-35 is overkill for Canada, EMARSS is scaled to the threat

You get a set of three, one is the Geo-Intelligence with Gorgon Stare and LIDAR, another is the VADER SAR radar, and then a SIGINT bird.

That way you can fly up and down the tracks and see and hear everything going on,  to include rewind to see where they came from and went back to.

These are actually better than Predator drones because the drone can only see in a narrow field of view, whereas EMARSS can look at 20 square miles at once

Then you can follow people for hours on end, no matter where they go, so you don't have to use a missile, the Mounties just show up at their door.

It also communicates with troops on the ground, an all seeing eye in overwatch, in real time.

Unfortunately I don't think they're getting delivered until 2022

Edited February 20, 2020 by Dougie93

[bush_cheney2004]

27 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

The book is over the top in terms of the final catastrophe, for example I don't think NORTHCOM would actually employ air strikes in Canada.

None the less, the general outline of the Indians getting all riled up behind a Greta Thunberg type character and then taking things too far, that part is very plausible.

 

OK, but certainly air power would be used for other resources and intel gathering for remote locations.    I haven't read the book, but clearly there is the larger risk of general population eco-warriors joining such a FN uprising coast-to-coast.  

It was fascinating to watch the manhunt of two murderers across Canada last year, as in, what is taking so long to nab these guys ?  Now they are fighting over who has to pay for the manhunt !

[eyeball]

21 minutes ago, Shady said:

Yours is a false argument, because even if we agreed not to sell China any oil, you still wouldn't be in favour of the pipeline or it's oil production.  So stop pretending otherwise.  It's laughable.

It's not a false argument it's simply one more.  A good one too I think in light of all the effort to keep oil out of the hands of communist hands in the not so distant past. 

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

OK, but certainly air power would be used for other resources and intel gathering for remote locations.    I haven't read the book, but clearly there is the larger risk of general population eco-warriors joining such a FN uprising coast-to-coast.  

It was fascinating to watch the manhunt of two murderers across Canada last year, as in, what is taking so long to nab these guys ?  Now they are fighting over who has to pay for the manhunt !

Oh he's accurately predicted the general trajectory, and it would be an insurrection with a military response, I just don't see America being willing to light the Indians up with overwhelming firepower on Canada's behalf.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

Oh he's accurately predicted the general trajectory, and it would be an insurrection with a military response, I just don't see America being willing to light the Indians up with overwhelming firepower on Canada's behalf.

 

 

Fort Drum was ready to go during the October Crisis (1970) with boots, armour, and rotary winged aircraft.   The U.S. would more likely function in a support role to existing Canadian assets (provincial and federal).   Newer security agreements codify this kind of development.

[Dougie93]

Like I think America will take some pleasure in seeing Canader melt down into a Mexico North, Canadians being so priggish and self righteous, it will be fun to watch them flail

But I think the America will adopt a containment approach, sell equipment to the Canadians, provide technical support, but otherwise just close the border and lock Canada out.

It's a perfect excuse to impose extreme protectionism under the rubric of Homeland Security

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

....But I think the America will adopt a containment approach, sell equipment to the Canadians, provide technical support, but otherwise just close the border and lock Canada out.

 

 

Sure...it would be a "delicate matter", because the general population would go ape-shyte at the thought of American troops storming across the border.

The Americans know that Canadian Forces are qualified and professional at what they do, but they also know that the government had them on a starvation diet for decades.    So yeah, lots of material support and intel collection from social media.

Canada has no standing equivalent to U.S. national guard units....that would cost too much.

[Dougie93]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Sure...it would be a "delicate matter", because the general population would go ape-shyte at the thought of American troops storming across the border.

The Americans know that Canadian Forces are qualified and professional at what they do, but they also know that the government had them on a starvation diet for decades.    So yeah, lots of material support and intel collection from social media.

Canada has no standing equivalent to U.S. national guard units....that would cost too much.

Yeah, no boots on the ground, but unlimited credit to DND in terms of Foreign Military Sales, America is open for business, cha-ching, thank you, come again.

 

[Dougie93]

Operationally, Mexico North is not going to turn into Iraq,  insurrection against the colonial British model would make it Giant Northern Ireland, with Indians instead of Papists.

Mind you, if Quebec started fighting with the Indians and Ottawa  got caught between, then you can have Papists in the mix too.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Dougie93

[taxme]

On 2/19/2020 at 5:32 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Well the end of Confederation and the Crown would mean the end of treaty obligations.  The Quebec sovereigntists have always liked this idea.  It would get even more individualistic than that without the provinces.  Toronto councillors have often mused about ceceding from the province.  Imagine how rich the city would be, keeping its provincial and federal taxes or scrapping them.  Subways everywhere.  The Toronto Charter.  

It's bloody sad that all we can talk about is separation these days. Quebec wants out. Alberta wants out. And now someone wants Toronto out. This could have been one of the most wealthiest countries on earth. But thanks to those spend crazy bunch of politically correct leftist liberal buffoons in Ottawa that have been allowed to run this once great nation forever now, we now have a huge debt, anarchy in the streets,  and a bunch of politicians who could careless about it all.  I will bet that Trudeau was pizzed off when he had to cancel his paid for by the taxpayer trip to Barbados. If the criminal code of Canada had been used a day after the terrorists took over there would have been none of these demonstrators being allowed to terrorize and continue on like they have been doing for two weeks now. The Canadian economy is already in trouble, and these anti-pipeline terrorists have just made things worse.And all Trudeau wants to do is talk some more.

I wonder if we gave Trudeau the job of running a lemonade stand, I wonder how long it would be before he caused it to go belly up? Taxes would be excessive. Massive red tape. A minister for lemonade with a big bureaucracy to follow, and it must show diversity.  Just joking. I do not want to give this fool any more ideas as to how to go about blowing more taxpayer's tax dollars. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

Operationally, Mexico North is not going to turn into Iraq,  insurrection against the colonial British model would make it Giant Northern Ireland, with Indians instead of Papists.

 

Well, the U.S. is less concerned about civil insurrection in Canada than any direct or indirect impact on trade flow, energy, defence, etc.  

These kind of what-if scenarios have been studied at U.S. war colleges for decades.   

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Well, the U.S. is less concerned about civil insurrection in Canada than any direct or indirect impact on trade flow, energy, defence, etc.  

These kind of what-if scenarios have been studied at U.S. war colleges for decades.   

But since America has come into competition with Canada as a New American Energy Colossus, it's actually in America's favor for the Canadians to blow themselves up.

The flow of energy being cut off from Canada means it has to come from America instead

America will be the great resource provider to Asia,  not Canada, Canadians are delusional if they think they can win this game.

[Dougie93]

The strategic damage being done to Mexico North right now is exponential

Canada is demonstrating to China, Japan and Korea that Canada can't actually deliver the goods.

Canadian Confederation in dead, there is no more national interest, so Canada simply cannot get its goods to tidewater in a timely and efficient manner

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

So the 3 hours vs 2 weeks (and still counting) isn't a big difference to you?  And the fact that Harper organized a meeting with all parties involved, vs Trudeau, as of now, not doing so, isn't a big difference to you?  You're really undermining your credibility with statements like these.

I think the biggest difference is tonal.  I didn't say anything about results - clearly Trudeau has more of a challenge and has delivered less unity also.

Please don't put words in my mouth.  I have shown myself to be open to points that you make, so don't try to convince yourself that I am biased against you; it isn't so.