The purpose or logic behind mass shootings.

[QuebecOverCanada]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

Yeah, that kind of nihilism is what I'm thinking about. "My life is shit. It's not going to get any better. I hate the world. I hate those people who are happy and are in relationships and have jobs. I'm going to go out in a blaze of glory and show them!" It's that sort of attitude. But why has it grown so strongly in the past decades as compared to the harsher lives people used to live?

Because there are more losers than before in society now than ever before.

So many unskilled, low IQ, low achievers at school, who can't find their place in the modern world.

In 1960, if you didn't have a highschool diploma, you could get a somewhat decent living.

In 2019, it means minimum wage, and living in poverty for life.

[Argus]

38 minutes ago, dialamah said:

The person doing the shooting always has a reason and logic behind it, even though it makes no sense to most of us. 

But the logic has to ultimately end with "My life is worthless". So why do so many young men think their lives are worthless now compared to the great depression? Yes, I get that there has been a huge economic disruption in the 'heartland'. The old style jobs which only required a high school diploma but would pay you well enough to have a decent life have gone. The new jobs which pay well usually require a lot of post secondary training and are mostly in the bigger urban centres where universities are located. 

I think this is part of the problem but not the whole problem. I think that a lot of young men have lost their way in the last 30-40 years. I think more and more of them don't know what they're supposed to be doing in the world. The old days when you met a girl, married, had kids, and built a family together forever have gone along with the well-paid union jobs for life. Now we're in a hookup culture with no stability. Plus society has been telling men for decades now that the rules they lived under for ten thousand years no longer apply. But it hasn't given them any new ones.

[Argus]

10 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Because there are more losers than before in society now than ever before.

So many unskilled, low IQ, low achievers at school, who can't find their place in the modern world.

In 1960, if you didn't have a highschool diploma, you could get a somewhat decent living.

In 2019, it means minimum wage, and living in poverty for life.

I think it's also the declining rate of marriage. Marriages meant a home life, stability, children, and a purpose in life. You were there to take care of your family. In 1960 only 10% of men 25 and over had never married. That number has been radically increasing. It's 23% now, but that number is thrown off by the high number of seniors. I bet if you check those under fifty that figure is far, far higher.

And btw, what does the future hold in store for those lower IQ individuals who could once have had a good life in some kind of union blue collar job? Because AI is going to eliminate even more of the lower skilled jobs in the coming years.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Argus

[Shady]

19 hours ago, Argus said:

I struggle to find any sort of logic in them. Except for the Muslims, of course. There IS a consistent logic with that because their religion says that if they die fighting the unbeliever in a holy war they go to heaven and are richly rewarded. No matter how stupid you might think that is they believe it, so there's a consistent logic behind killing people.

There's no logic behind what the guy in Texas did. Killing a dozen, or two or three dozen, or two or three hundred Hispanics is not going to accomplish anything in the way of stopping Hispanic immigration, legal and illegal, nor going to make even the slightest dent in the Hispanic population of El Paso, which approaches 90%. And it will effectively end his life. So what's the point?

I'm not even discussing the morality. Some people are immoral and lack all empathy for others. That's a known fact. I'm talking about the rationality - which does not appear to exist. Even if you want to kill people, being an immoral sadist or something, there are ways of doing it that don't end your life. All humans are built with an instinct for self-preservation. Going against that is not rational unless you think your life is shit to begin with, essentially worth nothing. So we have to figure that as a starting point.

But even there, even if your life is shit, there are rational things to do to change it, even if drastic (because what's more drastic than ending it). And these characters don't go in for that.

They're almost always young, white males who do not appear to be fully integrated into society. They don't have girlfriends, decent jobs, prospects, or much in the way of friends. And they all seem to be pretty computer literate. Angry at the world, it seems to me they just say "F*k it" and go kill people so they can "go out in a blaze of glory". They've likely played a lot of video games and this is, to some extent, bringing that to life.

What I don't understand is why this happens mostly in the US. Yes, guns are easily available. But they're not that hard to get here, either. If you have no history of psychological problems or a criminal record, you can go through the courses and get your license. Then you can buy an AR-15 if that's what you want. So how come almost nobody ever does that? I have not seen or heard of anyone going on a mass shooting spree even remotely like what happens with dreary regularity down south with a legally obtained firearm.Is it just the delay? The time it takes to go through the process? Or is there something more about the US cultural background which encourages this? And if there is, why did it not exist back in the 1950s or 1960s?

I agree and don’t understand why it happens mostly in the US either.  Anybody in Canada, if they wanted could take a couple of legal hunting rifles into any Walmart here, and kill a dozen people easily before law enforcement could respond.  But it just doesn’t happen for whatever reason.

[Dougie93]

Young males need to be warriors, if there's no outlet for that, they will make war on their own terms.

In the past, they joined the military, but now the military has been discredited, the Progressive agenda has feminized the military, so it's no longer an effective outlet for the innate aggression of the Homo Sapiens Sapiens apex predator male.

This is not crime, this is war, they are making war upon their tormentors, the effeminate bourgeoisie.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Daesh is Incelter Skelter too, the motivation to join Daesh is quite clearly to make war for the purposes of acquiring young females as sex slaves.

99% Chimpanzee. 

If the apex predator males do not embrace the established order, you got a whole lot of Darwinian killing machines on your hands, without any direction nor restraint.

It's going to find something to go war against in the end.

The Nazis were like this too, it was a cult, reactionary to the humiliation and subjugation of the German warrior elite.

The Allied soldiers went to war for this too, almost every World War Two infantryman I've known pretty much said the same thing.

They joined because the Depression was stifling, there were no jobs, there was nothing to do, so they just wanted to get out of Canada, to go and see the Elephant.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Dougie93

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

But the logic has to ultimately end with "My life is worthless".

I think the logic is more along the lines of "My life and death will have been in service to a higher cause", whether that cause is protest against immigration, Muslims, abortion, progressive policies, inaction on climate change or whatever.

Edited August 5, 2019 by dialamah

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I think the logic is more along the lines of "My life and death will have been in service to a higher cause", whether that cause is protest against immigration, Muslims, abortion, progressive policies, inaction on climate change or whatever.

Those causes are all just rubrics, the ultimate motivation here is Darwinian.

You see this exact same behavior with Chimpanzees, not enough females to go around, and the Alpha is discredited and weak.

The females are the driving force of Chimpanzee culture, the success of any group of Chimpanzees, is related to how many females there are in the group.

Without a critical mass of mates, Chimpanzees will got to war to acquire more females.

This dynamic is often referred to now as Toxic Masculinity.

[Dougie93]

In terms of why they are mostly white, that's because Anglo-America is a warrior culture, we North German Protestants came to rule the world, for a reason.

It's true that the modern liberal British state is a product of business incited by the rule of law, but the ultimate purpose of making all that money, was to make war upon the House of Bourbon, to rule waves and so rule the world.

It is all inherently right wing reactionary, and that right wing is best expressed as; Dieu et mon droit, nec aspera terrent.

God and my right.  No fears on earth.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Dougie93

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

And btw, what does the future hold in store for those lower IQ individuals who could once have had a good life in some kind of union blue collar job? Because AI is going to eliminate even more of the lower skilled jobs in the coming years.

So long as right wing conservatives insist on eschewing social welfare and imposing a strong moral imperitive that individuals must carry their own weight in the world the jobless future will be very bleak and violent indeed. Like rats in a cage.

 

 

[taxme]

20 hours ago, eyeball said:

It should come as no surprise that Argus overlooked that they're almost always right-wing as well.

 

The left is what's pushing it but apparently it's gone too far. There's a reason why the right wing is described as being reactionary.  It's not what anyone wants it just is what it is.

 

Would someone please tell Argus it's definitely conservatism that pushes them towards reacting violently too.  It would sure be nice if ya'll could just take yourselves out without dragging normal people into it.

 

It is not the conservative movement that is creating mass shootings and racism in North America. It is the leftist liberal democrats in Canada and America that are the ones causing conservatives and some right wing groups to react to the problems that they have created. The democratic blacks in Baltimore whine and cry and now try to blame Trump for the shit hole that Baltimore has become. But yet when democrat Obama was the President of America for eight whole years what did he do for Baltimore to make it better? Sweet dik all. The whole state is pretty much black democratic controlled and has been so for decades now. But yet those same black liberal democrats in Baltimore have the gall and the nerve to try and blame all the problems in Baltimore on Trump for not trying to make Baltimore a better and safer place to live. Communists like Al Sharpton never say anything about all the black on black crime going on in America but has no problem attacking Trump and calling him a racist. The racist here is Sharpton. Why is Sharpton not talking about all the mass shootings and murders going on by black people against their own black people? Good question. 

So, all the conservatives that live in Canada and America are not normal to you now but all others are and we conservatives should all just take ourselves out of the picture and hand our country over to a bunch of strangers from non-white conservative countries from around the world. I guess that just proves my point all along that there are many anti-conservatives out there that think that conservatives should just leave North America and our own conservative homeland that we all grew up in, built up, and thrived in and just get up and leave and hand our land over to a bunch of not needed strangers that are mostly coming from non-conservative countries of the world, eh? At least that is what I am getting here from your reply? Yes/no? There was a black preacher that once said to his people "don't make the white people angry". Are some white people starting to get angry? Hey, you never know.   

[QuebecOverCanada]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

I think it's also the declining rate of marriage. Marriages meant a home life, stability, children, and a purpose in life. You were there to take care of your family. In 1960 only 10% of men 25 and over had never married. That number has been radically increasing. It's 23% now, but that number is thrown off by the high number of seniors. I bet if you check those under fifty that figure is far, far higher.

And btw, what does the future hold in store for those lower IQ individuals who could once have had a good life in some kind of union blue collar job? Because AI is going to eliminate even more of the lower skilled jobs in the coming years.

Your points are all valid.

Men and Women relationships are as free as they've ever been before. It means less restrictions on the numbers of partners, and has an incident on the stability of relationships, of course, since marriage meant lifetime commitment which isn't the case for most relationships nowadays, which isn't a bad thing in itself, but it makes it so the lower tier of men and women don't get any. Literally, not any. I know a guy, a colleague of mine who is 30 and still never been to a party ever in his life and never kissed a girl. It's the world we live in now. The liberalization of the sexual market makes it so the top of the list get most of the profits, which in this case is sex. The bottom part of the sexual market value though, doesn't get anything. The desert.

For the jobs of tomorrow, there will be mass unemployment. There is no other solution when we get there then to get a basic minimum income for everyone.

[eyeball]

38 minutes ago, taxme said:

It is not the conservative movement that is creating mass shootings and racism in North America. It is the leftist liberal democrats in Canada and America that are the ones causing conservatives and some right wing groups to react to the problems that they have created.

Yes, that's what I said. You could see this future coming 20 years ago or more 

[taxme]

19 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

I firmly believe that it's the marginalization of their group.  Not necessarily right wing or left wing, although it seems that left leaning guys are more pliable and more apt to believe that they are shitty, whereas right wing guys are angered by the implications.  This El Paso thing isn't really terrorism (although they'll call it such, just to even out the columns), it's a resentment that certain classes of people are held in such high esteem, while they're told from a very young age they are worthless.  

If a girl does poorly in school there is a national inquiry, programs, workshops, Pro-D days and funding to equalize the situation, if guys regress in school, they're told to suck it up or drop out.  Schools do not value guys - not a bit.  Same goes for rape, or any violence associated with guys.  A young white girl will never be without, especially if she puts out a kid or two, a white guy can starve on the side of a street and no one will care.  White guys are supposed to "check their privilege" and do as they're told - politicians will say it all the time.  Now, as far as theses marginalized guys think, "illegals" are now the chosen group.  To a lot of people "diversity" means taking from or leaving white guys behind.

I know for a fact that I wouldn't want to be a young white man in america.

    

Bang on. We can see today the attacks going on by the leftist liberal media against white males. White males are constantly being told that they are too toxic and the reasons why the world is in the mess that it is in. Yet we are never told about some of the great things that white people have done to make society and the world great and a better place to live. I often wonder as to where the world would be like today if white people did not come along? Just about everything around us was created and invented by white people. 

Our dear leaders can create special days or months for non-white or gay people like Black History Month or Aboriginal month but yet we are not allowed to have and celebrate a White History Month. Why? Even when this is proposed in our own white homelands this is shot down by our leftist liberal white politicians and the leftist liberal white media and has even been deemed as trying to promote white racism to do so. What a bunch of crock. I believe that if white people are going to be constantly demonized for existing then what can one expect from some white people going bonkers and committing mass shootings. Society is not giving white people the credit that they deserve. All white people seem to be getting all the time is scorn and hatred. As you said? "I would not want to be a young white man growing up in America" and even Canada. The picture on the wall is being altered and that is not very good.

My opinion. 

[taxme]

7 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Your points are all valid.

Men and Women relationships are as free as they've ever been before. It means less restrictions on the numbers of partners, and has an incident on the stability of relationships, of course, since marriage meant lifetime commitment which isn't the case for most relationships nowadays, which isn't a bad thing in itself, but it makes it so the lower tier of men and women don't get any. Literally, not any. I know a guy, a colleague of mine who is 30 and still never been to a party ever in his life and never kissed a girl. It's the world we live in now. The liberalization of the sexual market makes it so the top of the list get most of the profits, which in this case is sex. The bottom part of the sexual market value though, doesn't get anything. The desert.

For the jobs of tomorrow, there will be mass unemployment. There is no other solution when we get there then to get a basic minimum income for everyone.

The big corporations and big media keep pushing us all into believing that materialism is what it is all about and is more important than having a family. Go ahead, go buy that house and that car and go travel and see the world. Go buy all those fancy TV's, and computers and expensive cellphones with all the things that you can do now on a cellphone. Having a family with children is not encouraged anymore. They say that  having children will get in your way of having fun. Most youth of today are not growing up in a loving and caring family like they once did many decades ago. Many are growing up in a non-loving dysfunctional family environments which can breed these mass shooting killers. Boys in schools today appear to be only being taught that what is important in life today is diversity, environment, gay lifestyle, feminism, and anti-family values and influencing their brains and that is what I believe may be causing some of our white youth to turn out to be mass shooting killers. As if this is what boys really do want to learn in school. If this is what society only has to offer than it is no wonder some of our white youth will go and do stupid things like committing mass murder. Become a gay loving feminist like Trudeau and you will truly become a real and true feminist like Trudeau girlie man. Boys are not being taught to be real men anymore and respect the family. The promoting of the liberalism lifestyle is what it is all about. Real and true Conservatism is being pushed to the side for the advancement of liberalism. It is my belief that as long as we keep trying to live and promote the ideas of liberalism lifestyle mass shootings like this will continue. Just my opinion of course. 

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

some right wing groups to react to the problem

Why aren't shooters responsible for their reactions?  Why do they want to blame someone else for their murderous rampages?  I though conservatives were all about taking personal responsibility?  

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

Why aren't shooters responsible for their reactions?  Why do they want to blame someone else for their murderous rampages?  I though conservatives were all about taking personal responsibility?  

You can personally adhere to a group.

[taxme]

6 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Why aren't shooters responsible for their reactions?  Why do they want to blame someone else for their murderous rampages?  I though conservatives were all about taking personal responsibility?  

They are held responsible for their reactions. They are either apprehended and put in jail or they are shot dead by the police. I prefer the latter. Save tax dollars from having to feed and clothe and house these cowardly killers of innocent people scumbags. If these cowards had any bal-s why not attack some army barracks or police station? Those two alone will gladly put you out of your f'n useless life and misery. The banning of guns or having gun laws will never work. Only tougher laws are needed. When someone uses a gun in the commission of a crime and seriously injures or kills someone, they should be put in solitary confinement for the rest of their useless life or put in the main detention area and let the other prisoners make their life very very miserable. There will be no consequences for the other prisoners for whatever they do to this mindless pos. No murder allowed. Hopefully, that will be a warning and a lesson to anyone else who goes out and kills innocent people. In jail your ass is grass, man. What the media should be saying is that these cowardly pos morons are not worth talking about and hopefully when they end up in jail the other prisoners will make their life as miserable as hell. Call them out for the cowardly pos that they are. Not try and be nice and not say anything. They only deserve scorn and hatred. 

I guess it is just an excuse for the rotten cowards that they are who commit their crimes is to try and blame it all on society. Society made me do it. Their are millions of people who have an hatred for society but do not go out and kill people and so I will never understand as to why any of these mass killers feel that it is okay to want to go out and shoot innocent people?  What did those people ever do to them? Why they seem to feel that killing innocent people makes them somehow feel great and good inside is beyond me. 

Conservatives cannot even get together and have a private conservative rally out in public square or in some auditorium somewhere before they are suddenly attacked by the communist goons called ANTIFA. The real and true conservatives are not responsible for gun violence and mass killings. These killers just have hatred in their hearts for everyone and are not really conservatives at all. Probably not even right wingers at all. Most of them may have read and seen some things on the internet about right wing hate groups and have listened to their rhetoric but that cannot be blamed and is not the fault of most conservatives who are not really right wing at all. That is just the lying leftist liberal media that wants to paint a picture that all conservatives are right wing white nationalist terrorists because of the medias hatred for conservatism and conservatives. When a Muslim kills innocent people in mass shootings the leftist liberal media does not call them Islamic terrorists even if they are found out later to be an Islamic terrorist. Just keep that all hush-hush. Only white nationalists and conservatives can be real terrorists and mass killer shooters and must be exposed at all costs whether true or not. Give me a break media. 

[Dougie93]

I am certainly willing to take responsibility for right wing reactionary forces, let the leftists burn in a fire of their own making, young people are free to make their minds up for themselves, if they choose to make war upon the bourgeoisie, then that is what they choose to do, it is not for me to say where the threshold of revolution is, the young are the future, if they are inclined to burn this ancien regime to the ground, so be it.

[scribblet]

8 hours ago, dialamah said:

..

One might as well ask what is the logic behind evangelical Christians supporting a president who is clearly a liar, an adulterer and a fraudster.   It makes perfect and logical sense to them and no sense to anyone else.

They supported Clinton a fraudster and adulterer

[dialamah]

8 minutes ago, scribblet said:

They supported Clinton a fraudster and adulterer

Evangelical Christians?  Even after Lewinski?

[Shady]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

Why aren't shooters responsible for their reactions?  Why do they want to blame someone else for their murderous rampages?  I though conservatives were all about taking personal responsibility?  

Maybe Trudeau will give him $10 million dollars! 

[BubberMiley]

Nobody supported Clinton after Lewinsky. He didn't get one vote. But speaking of Clinton, he was able to reduce the number of mass shootings significantly with his assault weapons ban. The shootings went up exponentially when the Republicans got rid of it. There's your answer.

[scribblet]

12 hours ago, dialamah said:

Evangelical Christians?  Even after Lewinski?

Sorry, no idea about evangelicals, just that he was still generally popular and likely would have won a third term could he have run - his approval numbers were going up.   Half or so of voters were obviously willing to have him back in White House with Hillary, even tho it was only as 'first Gentleman'

https://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/20/impeachment.poll/

[Michael Hardner]

On 8/4/2019 at 9:58 PM, QuebecOverCanada said:

 According to Jordan Peterson, who taught Psychology, mass shooters do it because of nihilism, among other psychological and sociological reasons.  

Do you have a cite ?  Where does he get that from ?  I get that he's a psychology professor but he's not the sole opinion on this topic and I would like to hear the rationale behind that one.