The purpose or logic behind mass shootings.

[Dougie93]

8 minutes ago, betsy said:

It's about survival.

The mass shooter in El Paso invoked survival, the Mexicans are threatening his territory and by extension his ability to acquire food and other resources.

So not mentally ill after all,  he was acting entirely in rational self interest.

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

A cursory look at the stats would show you there's a problem with that just looking at the top 3 rates.

The evil of statistics. There are too many contributing factors, to look at it from one perspective alone.

 

[Argus]

Well here are some more statistics, some of which seem to go against the prevailing wisdom. Such as that mass shootings are not becoming more frequent.

https://fee.org/articles/mass-shootings-arent-becoming-more-common-and-evidence-contradicts-stereotypes-about-the-shooters/

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

The evil of statistics. There are too many contributing factors, to look at it from one perspective alone.

 

Such as 'lower population' yes.

[betsy]

15 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

The mass shooter in El Paso invoked survival, the Mexicans are threatening his territory and by extension his ability to acquire food and other resources.

So not mentally ill after all,  he was acting entirely in rational self interest.

 

Rational? 

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by betsy

[OftenWrong]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Such as 'lower population' yes.

Lower population is an influencing factor, yes, but purely due to the numbers game. 

If a small town of 100,000 people has 4 murders, the rate is 4/100,000. If a city of 3M people has 100 murders, the rate is 3.3/100,000. The small town has the higher murder rate.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

  If a small town of 100,000 people has 4 murders, the rate is 4/100,000. If a city of 3M people has 100 murders, the rate is 3.3/100,000. The small town has the higher murder rate.

Right.  The numbers given are rates.  I thought you were saying higher populations could also have higher rates.

[OftenWrong]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I thought you were saying higher populations could also have higher rates.

And they could.

What is the purpose or logic behind mass shootings... many factors are behind it. It is typically a reaction to something, done because of something. Question is, what. There are different motivations in different instances, so there is not a single purpose or logic. Safe to say malevolence is deeply ingrained in our human nature. It cannot be completely eliminated, nor understood.

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. And they could.

2. What is the purpose or logic behind mass shootings... many factors are behind it. It is typically a reaction to something, done because of something. Question is, what. There are different motivations in different instances, so there is not a single purpose or logic. Safe to say malevolence is deeply ingrained in our human nature. It cannot be completely eliminated, nor understood.

1. So my point is that you have Canada at #2, and with a lower population which on the surface makes me think that population isn't part of this but ok.

2. Sure, but it's unanswerable.  Gang shootings have more logic behind them as there are crime organizations competing etc.

[betsy]

What do most of them - if not all - have in common?

SOCIAL MEDIA!

Edited August 10, 2019 by betsy

[OftenWrong]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. So my point is that you have Canada at #2, and with a lower population which on the surface makes me think that population isn't part of this but ok.

2. Sure, but it's unanswerable.  Gang shootings have more logic behind them as there are crime organizations competing etc.

1. I agreed there are two many factors to point to one thing alone, so I thought we have moved on from this point already.

2. Gangs may kill for turf war, or to get new turf. They are aggressive. It seems like the lone shooter want to kill as an act of a protest against something, they believe they are somehow on the defensive. For example:
- Shooters like Brevik, to preserve the white European "race".
- Angry about degenerate society, Ted Kaczynski types.
- Protect our liberty types. Probably the Vegas shooter.
- Don't get laid, alienated by women types. - This might in fact be the root cause for all of them, looking at the above list. It may at least be a useful warning sign, and point towards possible therapy.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

What do most of them - if not all - have in common?

SOCIAL MEDIA!

All young people are on social media. That's like saying they all eat cereal in the morning, or all drink coke.

[betsy]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

All young people are on social media. That's like saying they all eat cereal in the morning, or all drink coke.

Same with guns.   So many people have guns.

It's mental health.

[Dougie93]

On 8/10/2019 at 5:33 AM, betsy said:

 

Rational? 

 

Rational in that the tactic supports a strategic objective.

It's called Accelerationism.

The attacks against public order are intended to undermine the credibility of the state, the states ability to protect you, in order to at some point effect revolutionary upheaval.

To say that these terrorists are not sane, is to absolve them of responsibility, when in fact they are criminally responsible,  although these are not civil crimes, these are war crimes.

 

[betsy]

5 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Rational in that the tactic supports a strategic objective.

It's called Accelerationism.

The attacks against public order are intended to undermine the credibility of the state, the states ability to protect you, in order to at some point effect revolutionary upheaval.

To say that these terrorists are not sane, is to absolve them of responsibility, when in fact they are criminally responsible,  although these are not civil crimes, these are war crimes.

 

I didn't say the shooter was not sane.  

 

Quote

To be clear, insanity is a legal term pertaining to a defendant's ability to determine right from wrong when a crime is committed. Here's the first sentence of law.com's lengthy definition:

Insanity. n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/in-therapy/200907/the-definition-insanity

 

 

Quote Irrational not logical or reasonable. "irrational feelings of hostility" synonyms: unreasonable, illogical, groundless, baseless, unfounded, unjustifiable, unsound; More   https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&biw=1035&bih=607&q=Dictionary&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONQesSoyi3w8sc9YSmZSWtOXmMU4-LzL0jNc8lMLsnMz0ssqrRiUWJKzeNZxMqFEAMA7_QXqzcAAAA&zx=1565861149678   Anyway, I wasn't referring to the shooter.  I was laughing at what you said about him:   Quote On 8/9/2019 at 2:47 PM, Dougie93 said: The mass shooter in El Paso invoked survival, the Mexicans are threatening his territory and by extension his ability to acquire food and other resources. So not mentally ill after all,  he was acting entirely in rational self interest.   He may be acting out of self-interest, but surely I wouldn't be describing it as, rational.   Hahahaha I hope you wouldn't say that of white supremacists!

Edited August 15, 2019 by betsy

[Dougie93]

4 hours ago, betsy said:

I didn't say the shooter was not sane.  

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/in-therapy/200907/the-definition-insanity

 

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&biw=1035&bih=607&q=Dictionary&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONQesSoyi3w8sc9YSmZSWtOXmMU4-LzL0jNc8lMLsnMz0ssqrRiUWJKzeNZxMqFEAMA7_QXqzcAAAA&zx=1565861149678   Anyway, I wasn't referring to the shooter.  I was laughing at what you said about him:     He may be acting out of self-interest, but surely I wouldn't be describing it as, rational.   Hahahaha I hope you wouldn't say that of white supremacists!

White Supremacy is entirely rational if one believes that whites are supremely superior to non whites,  moreover, for them to make revolutionary war against women like you, is also entirely rational, because it's working, Accelerationism is working, the state is impotent in the face of it, the masses are starting to panic, and the result is that more gasoline will be thrown on this fire, which is the rational objective of the terrorists, they are provoking people like you into overthrowing your own rule.

It's quite plausible that the White Supremacists will win this war and impose their rule on you in the end, I can see the outlines of that already.

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

One type of mentally ill shooter occurs more often than one would expect by chance - a young adult male with symptoms suggestive of paranoid schizophrenia. 

[eyeball]

On 11/6/2019 at 3:38 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

One type of mentally ill shooter occurs more often than one would expect by chance - a young adult male with symptoms suggestive of paranoid schizophrenia. 

I suspect there'll be a correlation between an increase in the availability of guns and incidents of schizophrenics using them but there's no reason to believe gun violence causes schizophrenia and especially vise versa.

[SpankyMcFarland]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

I suspect there'll be a correlation between an increase in the availability of guns and incidents of schizophrenics using them but there's no reason to believe gun violence causes schizophrenia and especially vise versa.

Certainly not but the stories of some shooters are strongly suggestive of it. It’s a vulnerability exposed by the availability of guns. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Many mass shooters would not be psychotic but would still be psychologically abnormal with largely untreatable conditions like antisocial personality disorder. How ‘responsible’ is a psychopath for his actions? It’s an unanswerable question. I’d be more concerned about the risk of recidivism on release.