Mali

[PIK]

So we are off to Mali. The worst possible decision he could have made. There is no peace to keep and my understanding 155 peacekeepers have been killed in 4 yrs. And I heard something about more women will be going. Get ready for body bags coming home. We need to call a election.

[Argus]

We need a distraction! There's too much bad news about India and ethnic politicking! We need to get people's minds off it! Hey! Remember that mission we turned down a couple of years back!? Let's announce that one! Oh, and add in lots of women, because we're the FEMINIST government and this gives us another chance to brandish our creds in front of the world!

True, UN troops, especially westerners, are the number one target for the Islamists there, and they'll be even more frenzied in their desire to kill western female soldiers, but hey, no skin of our nose! We're being noble!

Retired Lieutenant-General Roméo Dallaire was blunt in his assessment.

“I wouldn’t touch Mali with a 10-foot pole,” he told me in fall 2016 after returning from a fact-finding trip to Africa with Defence Minister, Harjit Sajjan.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-canadas-new-peacekeeping-mission-to-mali-is-more-about-image-than-national-security

[Goddess]

When are we going to learn to stay out of these brutal squabbbles?  We completely underestimate the level of religious fanaticism in those parts of the world.

[Goddess]

11 minutes ago, Argus said:

Retired Lieutenant-General Roméo Dallaire was blunt in his assessment.

“I wouldn’t touch Mali with a 10-foot pole,” he told me in fall 2016 after returning from a fact-finding trip to Africa with Defence Minister, Harjit Sajjan.

"Shake Hands With the Devil" - ya, Rwanda showed Mr. Dallaire how little Western countries can do when it comes to religious fanaticism.

[GostHacked]

Yeah let's stay out of this of this one for sure. We got enough problems at home to take care of.  This is France's mess.

 

[DogOnPorch]

Another Islamic mess....rather.

[capricorn]

3 hours ago, PIK said:

The worst possible decision he could have made. There is no peace to keep and my understanding 155 peacekeepers have been killed in 4 yrs. And I heard something about more women will be going.

The UN reports 162 "peacekeepers" were killed in 5 years.

https://peacekeeping.un.org/en/mission/minusma

Terrorists in that part of the world think nothing of kidnapping foreigners in exchange for a hefty ransom. Considering they like to scandalize us with the way they treat women, they are probably salivating at the thought women soldiers will form part of Canada's deployment. I fear those terrorists will attempt to take some of them prisoners.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/kidnapped-canadian-diplomat-freed-for-1-million-ransom-in-2009-al-qaeda-letter-suggests

[betsy]

5 hours ago, PIK said:

So we are off to Mali. The worst possible decision he could have made. There is no peace to keep and my understanding 155 peacekeepers have been killed in 4 yrs. And I heard something about more women will be going. Get ready for body bags coming home. We need to call a election.

I recall how people reacted when soldiers in body bags came home from war, what more when we get the first female casualty? 

 

Going off in a place like Mali - it isn't hard to imagine what atrocities they'll be subjected to, should they become POW.

These women soldiers ought to be saving the last bullet for themselves - or they should be carrying cyanide pills. NEVER GET CAUGHT ALIVE, should be drummed into their heads!

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by betsy

[taxme]

7 hours ago, PIK said:

So we are off to Mali. The worst possible decision he could have made. There is no peace to keep and my understanding 155 peacekeepers have been killed in 4 yrs. And I heard something about more women will be going. Get ready for body bags coming home. We need to call a election.

I think that any female soldiers that get sent to Mali or any other Arab or African country are going to regret that they ever did join the military. They better hope that they do not get taken as prisoners. After the locals are finished with them they may very well be coming home in body bags. This prime mistake of ours really does have to go. I heard that he and his family just went on another trip to Florida. Where to next, sunny boy? 

[taxme]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

I recall how people reacted when soldiers in body bags came home from war, what more when we get the first female casualty? 

 

Going off in a place like Mali - it isn't hard to imagine what atrocities they'll be subjected to, should they become POW.

These women soldiers ought to be saving the last bullet for themselves - or they should be carrying cyanide pills. NEVER GET CAUGHT ALIVE, should be drummed into their heads!

 

Exactly Betsy. Those women better keep a bullet for themselves and use it on themselves rather than be taken prisoner and no doubt then be spread around among the locals, if you get my drift. Women soldiers being sent to Arab or African countries should no that they will not be welcomed as equals to men. If one gets caught they are probably going to regret that they ever joined the military. But does our prime mistake care? No way, woman. 

[taxme]

5 hours ago, Goddess said:

When are we going to learn to stay out of these brutal squabbbles?  We completely underestimate the level of religious fanaticism in those parts of the world.

Never as long as we have dumb politicians that cannot seem to ever get history right. I say leave what goes on in any Arab and African country to themselves. They have nothing to offer the world anyway except religious fanaticism and terrorism. Canada does need to do any business with that part of the world to survive. Matter of fact we will do a lot better by just staying away from those loser countries and save the taxpayer's billions in tax dollars. Works for me. 

[cannuck]

6 hours ago, Goddess said:

When are we going to learn to stay out of these brutal squabbbles?  We completely underestimate the level of religious fanaticism in those parts of the world.

Yet we stand idly by and watch our noble government import thousands of them into Canada - and claim that they will fit in just fine.

[Argus]

43 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Yet we stand idly by and watch our noble government import hundreds of thousands of them into Canada - and claim that they will fit in just fine.

Fixed that for ya.

[betsy]

13 hours ago, taxme said:

Exactly Betsy. Those women better keep a bullet for themselves and use it on themselves rather than be taken prisoner and no doubt then be spread around among the locals, if you get my drift. Women soldiers being sent to Arab or African countries should no that they will not be welcomed as equals to men. If one gets caught they are probably going to regret that they ever joined the military. But does our prime mistake care? No way, woman. 

If they can torture and gang-rape their own people.....imagine what happens to a western, female enemy? 

  If one gets caught, she'd be wishing she's dead.

Edited March 21, 2018 by betsy

[-TSS-]

That civil war in Mali which is due to secessionist movement, is that secession about creating some purer form of islamic state?

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, -TSS- said:

That civil war in Mali which is due to secessionist movement, is that secession about creating some purer form of islamic state?

No its same olde same olde story...a vast majority of indigenous people trying to get out from under the thumbs of the usual suspects, a small minority that pink aliens put in power and support.

Whatever else the so-called radicalized nature of the state/majority being suppressed is, that radicalization in entirely due to an all too-often violent cruel suppression.  A better form will in all likelihood emerge over time when the majority are able to determine that for themselves.

We have no business whatsoever trying to determine anything other than truth, reconciliation and reparations.

[Army Guy]

Sorry for the reach back, have not been around in awhile, lots of talk about females in combat here .....what are we going to do when one of them gets killed....well, we have already broken that moment in history, or have we already forgotten, ...that more than 6 women have come back from Afghanistan an active combat zone in flag draped coffins...5 of those were killed in combat...that's right fighting next to their male comrades in arms. They died doing what they chose to do in life, be a Canadian soldier, they died doing their jobs "close with and destroy the enemy".  I say that because i get the impression that some of you think these women are dressed in skirts and hand out blankets or comfort the wounded....That's a load of crap....Why? women have fought to long and to hard to get where they are today, to be able to defend this nation on equal ground with their male counterparts and while far from perfect, the thought of getting captured or mistreated by some extremist has not even come into the picture...They are not going to fold, and turn their backs on all that they have gained to date...... over something that might or might not happen.. 

these  5 women died in combat with bullets , rockets, and arty flying everywhere....with one side determined to kill the other....They are as tough as any soldier i have meet on the battle field....poke one with a stick if you don't believe me and watch as they kick your ass...They are not saving any bullets for themselves, all of their bullets are going into bad guys....see that is the problem....it is we always run out of bad guys before we run out of bullets....That's not some guy talking out of his ass, that is based on fact....10 years of combat in Afghanistan and not one Canadian soldier had been captured....not one male, or female.

Yes i get the fact that these women going to Mali are not going to be combat trades, but instead air force, not the same argument. And your right.... but even the air force has back up plans, to ensure things like this do not happen. Watch for mission creep / or expansion of the numbers involved, this is only going to get bigger.....

 

[GostHacked]

Army Guy

I think the risk that women face on the battlefield is worse than what a man would face.  What would happen if they were captured? Not just torture, but rape would be involved as well. I am all for women stepping up to the plate and will be saddened with their loss of life, just as I'd be upset about any male soldier dying.

However I absolutely agree about mission creep.  Trudeau said we'd be in Mali for ONE year, NO more. I will call 100% bullshit on that notion right now.

[PIK]

14 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Army Guy

I think the risk that women face on the battlefield is worse than what a man would face.  What would happen if they were captured? Not just torture, but rape would be involved as well. I am all for women stepping up to the plate and will be saddened with their loss of life, just as I'd be upset about any male soldier dying.

However I absolutely agree about mission creep.  Trudeau said we'd be in Mali for ONE year, NO more. I will call 100% bullshit on that notion right now.

And I would think in a hell hole like mali a female canadian soldier would make quite the trophy. 

[Army Guy]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 9:32 PM, GostHacked said:

Army Guy

I think the risk that women face on the battlefield is worse than what a man would face.  What would happen if they were captured? Not just torture, but rape would be involved as well. I am all for women stepping up to the plate and will be saddened with their loss of life, just as I'd be upset about any male soldier dying.

However I absolutely agree about mission creep.  Trudeau said we'd be in Mali for ONE year, NO more. I will call 100% bullshit on that notion right now.

The risk ANY soldier faces on the battle field is great, male of female, I take it your concerned about rape, Rape is about power, control, humiliation, and it works on both males and females,  Middle eastern countries have made torture a science, and they are very good at it.....i would be lying if i said that it has not crossed the minds of any soldier, and does provoke fears, but their is a lot of things that soldiers think about on the battle field, surviving one more day is what consumes most soldiers thoughts most of the day....thinking about wife's, kids , family consumes the rest ......

Being a Canadian soldier is knowing your not alone, Canadian tactics in these regions make it extremely hard for the bad guys to be able separate or destroy any formation operating outside the wire, hence why in 10 years of combat operations in Afghanistan  NOT one Canadian soldier had been captured....

A female soldier would make one hell of a trophy, hence why the tactics we use, and strategies we employ work...if it did happen,  it would also be a huge  blow to moral of not only the Canadian military but to our country as well, it would also be a blow to everything these female soldiers have worked so hard at to claw back from their male counter parts...my point is this....those that have chosen this career field have done so for a reason, they want to be a Canadian soldiers nothing more nothing less....not a female soldier, not a male soldier BUT a Canadian soldier...were each is treated equally...we have a long way to go.....we cant do that if we continue with this type of thinking, they don't want to be singled out as girls or boys or what every they identify as ...but known as just soldiers....Our hearts are in the right places, but our actions are flawed , does that make sense...

 

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

...not a female soldier, not a male soldier BUT a Canadian soldier...were each is treated equally...we have a long way to go.....we cant do that if we continue with this type of thinking, they don't want to be singled out as girls or boys or what every they identify as ...but known as just soldiers....Our hearts are in the right places, but our actions are flawed , does that make sense...

 

 

This makes sense to me having watched the integration of women into combat arms since the 1980's.   Any official or unofficial policy that defines their military service (and sacrifices) as different because of sex/gender is a disservice to them and the units in which they serve.  

I remember when Captain Nichola Goddard was killed in action while serving in Afghanistan (2006).   It was a big deal...Canadian  government and media scrambled to figure out what to do, including awarding the Memorial Cross to her husband (widower).    Turns out the proper thing to do was to honour her just like previous Canadian Forces members who have died serving with/for their units.

[GostHacked]

On 5/12/2018 at 3:14 PM, Army Guy said:

The risk ANY soldier faces on the battle field is great, male of female, I take it your concerned about rape, Rape is about power, control, humiliation, and it works on both males and females,

 

I think we are getting off topic now, what is the mission on Mali? WTF are we really going to be doing there?

[Army Guy]

I was just replying to your statement , Canada is going to provide the coalition with Helo support, with CH-47F and armed Griffons to act as Armed escorts....ferrying around troops, supplies, ammo etc.  So the coalition spends less time on the roads. IED's are the number one killer in insurgent war fare. 

[GostHacked]

37 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I was just replying to your statement , Canada is going to provide the coalition with Helo support, with CH-47F and armed Griffons to act as Armed escorts....ferrying around troops, supplies, ammo etc.  So the coalition spends less time on the roads. IED's are the number one killer in insurgent war fare. 

How does it help us here at home in Canada?

[Army Guy]

 This is one of Justin's Campaign promises, to try and get our nation a temporary seat on the UN council. Canadians will remember the election, anyone but Harper election.... This is the path that the liberals chose to get this seat, remember his speech to the UN council and to Canadians he was going to rebrand DND's image from war fighters to  "peace keepers" by investing Canadian soldiers and equipment in UN peacekeeping missions. See the massive list of UN failures around the globe.... 

The answer to your question is very little, other than perhaps a seat on the UN council, which offers very little really. However one would think we as a G-8 nation, with all our resources, including financial and material could afford to help around the world, without any undo hardship... unless your suggesting we should remain within our borders and close our eyes to problems outside borders and say fuck the rest of the world ?....pretty sure that is not a typical Canadian value let alone a liberal value, nor NDP or green party for that matter.....