America under President Trump

[Argus]

48 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

People are acting like something about Trump's pre-Presidential life is earth-shaking to the point of being disqualifying, when everything that they're saying is basically just par for the course. Some of the men who are regarded as America's most prominent & virtuous leaders did as much or even worse than Trump did and that's just a well-known fact so I haven't even been asked for links.

Links, please. Preferably from sometime in the last half century anyway.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I think we both know that Trump's conduct isn't that different from that of a large percentage of men with his charisma and his position of power.

Wait! Are you saying the Republicans have been lying all these years when they talk about their Christian devotion and family values and the moral majority and all that kind of thing!? Tell me that ain't so!

I mean, next you'll be telling me they have no interest in fiscal conservatism either!

Edited February 19, 2020 by Argus

[Argus]

7 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Nope. It's those who claim non-partisanship the loudest who are the most partisan posters, they are so partisan, they don't even know they are partisan.

I freely admit to being conservative.

Which is why I don't like Trump.

[Iceni warrior]

7 minutes ago, Argus said:

Maybe you get accused of being deranged because you're deranged - without regard to the orange fat man.

What, exactly, are you basing this psychological evaluation on?

 

[Rue]

12 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

What, exactly, are you basing this psychological evaluation on?

 

He made no evaluation. He only speculated. Icy I would speculate  the board is a source of dialogue for many  deranged types as well as moi. Hari Krishna.

[Rue]

On 2/19/2020 at 10:16 AM, Yzermandius19 said:

Trump is right wing, but less so than many GOP presidents. He's a New York Liberal who hijacked the Republican Party. Left and Right can be over used and often arbitrary, but not so much when I use it, lumping me in with most people who overuse those terms is not a fair characterization, you are projecting other's faults on me, just because we occasionally use the same term.

You need to get over the hatred of descriptive labels, without them, nothing could be discussed, and yet Filthy Neutral Milequetoast Fence Sitters want to pretend like no labels should ever be used to describe them because they are so impartial none of them applies or some nonsense.

Y I am not projecting anything on you. I actually believe all of us on this board are guilty of using labels of course. With due respect you are quick to stereotype those you disagree with over Trump as leftist although I much appreciate at least callONG me a Filthy Meutral Milequetoast Fence Sitter WHICH IS TRUE.  I have stated the same stereotypes you use on others could just as easily be used against you for the exact same reasons. Partisanship or impartiality does distort perception. That is my only point. This is a partisan thread, none of us are right or wrong. . I enjoy it though when you get annoyed at me for being anti Trump to be honest. For me its fun. I can't take Trump as anything but  perpetual farting machine while I appreciate you love him. To each their own.You are a fan of Trump I argue we need a fan for Trump.  

Edited February 20, 2020 by Rue

[WestCanMan]

34 minutes ago, Argus said:

Links, please. Preferably from sometime in the last half century anyway.

OK, here ya go: Google "JFK's affairs", "Bill Clinton's notorious dick", "Sen Edwards' affair" and "MLK rape". Is that linky enough for you?

[WestCanMan]

35 minutes ago, Argus said:

Wait! Are you saying the Republicans have been lying all these years when they talk about their Christian devotion and family values and the moral majority and all that kind of thing!? Tell me that ain't so!

I mean, next you'll be telling me they have no interest in fiscal conservatism either!

I think that everyone lies when they talk about Christian everything.

[Argus]

58 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

OK, here ya go: Google "JFK's affairs", "Bill Clinton's notorious dick", "Sen Edwards' affair" and "MLK rape". Is that linky enough for you?

JFK was not in the last half century. Bill Clinton's dick doesn't even begin to compare to the kinds of things Trump has done, and MLK was never a politician.

Try again.

[Argus]

58 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I think that everyone lies when they talk about Christian everything.

But for the last forty years the Republicans have basically made their moral superiority and fiscal restraint the centerpiece of who they are as a party!

And now they stand for what, exactly? Nothing?

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

JFK was not in the last half century. Bill Clinton's dick doesn't even begin to compare to the kinds of things Trump has done, and MLK was never a politician.

Try again.

1) The last half century is your imaginary line in the sand. 

It would make sense if "people respected MLK and JFK back in the day, but they don't anymore because they were such douchebags".

Those guys are still considered to be paragons of virtue, and if you apply the same level of scrutiny to trump's dalliances then he's just one of the gang. 

2) In what way do you think Bill Clinton is a better role model than Donald Trump? Does Trump have some dead hookers in the trunk of his car that I'm not aware of? Because it's pretty hard to be looking up at Bill Clinton from a moral POV. 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

But for the last forty years the Republicans have basically made their moral superiority and fiscal restraint the centerpiece of who they are as a party!

And now they stand for what, exactly? Nothing?

1) They're morally superior to Democrats, but that's like being the least drunk Irishman on St Patrick's Day.

2) Fiscal restraint is relative. Ten years ago it meant running a $10 Billion deficit. Now it means not running a $42 Trillion deficit. A lot of Americans wish I was exaggerating.  

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

As usual you don't have the foggiest clue what's going on.

I know everything.

[OftenWrong]

22 hours ago, Rue said:

Now that is an example of the theory of relativity.  Still porn  is inescapable when discussing Trump's behaviour and the fact is the US will need to take a large collective bath when Trump's reign is over and maybe de-lice itself.

And they said, “Behold, he doth consort with prostitutes and the unclean.”

[WestCanMan]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

I know everything.

In other words, you're busted for the 8th time today so you're switching the topic.

[Shady]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

In other words, you're busted for the 8th time today so you're switching the topic.

Exactly.  it's constantly the shell game with eyeball.  Constantly moving the goal posts, switching the subject.  

[Argus]

18 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

1) The last half century is your imaginary line in the sand. 

It would make sense if "people respected MLK and JFK back in the day, but they don't anymore because they were such douchebags".

Those guys are still considered to be paragons of virtue, and if you apply the same level of scrutiny to trump's dalliances then he's just one of the gang. 

2) In what way do you think Bill Clinton is a better role model than Donald Trump? Does Trump have some dead hookers in the trunk of his car that I'm not aware of? Because it's pretty hard to be looking up at Bill Clinton from a moral POV. 

Clinton has worked hard to help people most of his life. Trump has never helped anyone in his life but Trump. His life is one of bullying, cheating, lying and bragging. He was known as a clown even before he got involved in politics, and the rich in Manhattan disdained him as an arrogant, uncouth pig of a man. He cheated and blackmailed his suppliers, and bankrupted his businesses six times. It takes real talent to make a casino go bankrupt six months after opening, but Trump managed it. No bank would loan him or his businesses any money after those bankruptcies, which should tell you all you need to know about his business skills. He was just a greasy, greedy, nasty man - all his life - even before politics. Nobody liked him and he has no real friends. Women didn't like him either, btw. He bought greedy women, used them, and then when they got older, dumped them and bought a new one. All of this is completely prior to his stint as politician, where he's merely added to the list of bad character traits and ignorant displays of how little he knows or understands about the world.

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Clinton has worked hard to help people most of his life.

OMG break out the violins for poor Bill Clinton. What a crock of shit.

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Trump has never helped anyone in his life but Trump. His life is one of bullying, cheating, lying and bragging. He was known as a clown even before he got involved in politics, and the rich in Manhattan disdained him as an arrogant, uncouth pig of a man. He cheated and blackmailed his suppliers, and bankrupted his businesses six times. It takes real talent to make a casino go bankrupt six months after opening, but Trump managed it. No bank would loan him or his businesses any money after those bankruptcies, which should tell you all you need to know about his business skills. He was just a greasy, greedy, nasty man - all his life - even before politics. Nobody liked him and he has no real friends. Women didn't like him either, btw. He bought greedy women, used them, and then when they got older, dumped them and bought a new one.

You could say the exact same kind things about trump that you said about Clinton. When the cameras are on everyone is an altruist. "Check under your seats everybody!"

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All of this is completely prior to his stint as politician, where he's merely added to the list of bad character traits and ignorant displays of how little he knows or understands about the world.

Unfortunately for you, when you ended with this, you backed yourself into the corner of "put up or shut up time". So tell us Argus, what has Trump done that is so bad for the US and the world? Do you think that Trump is doing better or worse than Obama did? Is he a better or worse leader than Trudeau? 

Can't wait for the reply. It's either gonna be laced with BS or it will be really quiet. 

[Argus]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

OMG break out the violins for poor Bill Clinton. What a crock of shit.

Look up his history. Compare it with Trump's.

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You could say the exact same kind things about trump that you said about Clinton.

No, you couldn't. Not unless you wanted to lie. Trump has never had any interest in anyone's well being or difficulties or misery or poverty or sickness or damage, or of societal problems.

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When the cameras are on everyone is an altruist. "Check under your seats everybody!"

Clinton lived his life one way, and Trump lived his life entirely for himself. And both of them were in front of the cameras, Clinton because he was a politician, Trump because he desperately sought the limelight. Even to the point of calling up radio shows, pretending to be his own publicist, to brag about his sexual prowess with his mistress.

Due to his youthful appearance, Clinton was often called the "Boy Governor".^[44][45][46] He worked on educational reform and directed the maintenance of Arkansas's roads, with wife Hillary leading a successful committee on urban health care reform. During his term, he helped transform Arkansas's economy and improved the state's educational system.^[48] For senior citizens, he removed the sales tax from medications and increased the home property-tax exemption.^[49] He became a leading figure among the New Democrats, a group of Democrats who advocated welfare reform, smaller government, and other policies not supported by liberals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton#Law_school

Now what did Trump do to help anyone compared to that?

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Unfortunately for you, when you ended with this, you backed yourself into the corner of "put up or shut up time". So tell us Argus, what has Trump done that is so bad for the US and the world? Do you think that Trump is doing better or worse than Obama did? Is he a better or worse leader than Trudeau?

Well... he just fired his national intelligence director after someone from the department had the gall to give a briefing that said Russia was once again trying to help Trump win the election. He replaced him with a loyalist who has zero intelligence experience. Trump has, in fact, almost from the beginning, ignored what American intelligence agencies say about threats to the United States, ignored what his generals say, ignored what the experts in foreign affairs say, and curried favor with the world's dictators. As a result, US soft power has all-but disappeared in the world. China and Russia are spreading out and increasing their influence everywhere, and even America's allies no longer consider the US to be reliable.

On the home front he's made the country more divided than at any time since the Vietnam War, coarsened national dialogue, overseen a massive increase in the deficit and debt while the country's infrastructure falls apart and seems to be doing his best to turn the Justice Department into his personal political police to use against his enemies.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Argus

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

In other words, you're busted for the 8th time today so you're switching the topic.

 

6 hours ago, Shady said:

Exactly.  it's constantly the shell game with eyeball.  Constantly moving the goal posts, switching the subject.  

What goal posts are you dummies talking about?

[bush_cheney2004]

14 minutes ago, Argus said:

As a result, US soft power has all-but disappeared in the world. China and Russia are spreading out and increasing their influence everywhere, and even America's allies no longer consider the US to be reliable.

 

This was true long before Trump ever became president.   See "Obama".

[WestCanMan]

42 minutes ago, Argus said:

Look up his history. Compare it with Trump's.

You're the one who made the claim that Clinton was such a great guy, you're the one who needs to back it up.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=122001&page=1

Here's where Clinton let his business partner (co-conspirator?) out of jail. 

Hillary lost some subpoenaed documents during the Whitewater investigation too. Go figger.

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No, you couldn't. Not unless you wanted to lie. Trump has never had any interest in anyone's well being or difficulties or misery or poverty or sickness or damage, or of societal problems.

Clinton lived his life one way, and Trump lived his life entirely for himself. And both of them were in front of the cameras, Clinton because he was a politician, Trump because he desperately sought the limelight. Even to the point of calling up radio shows, pretending to be his own publicist, to brag about his sexual prowess with his mistress.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/so-you-think-you-know-donald-trump/ Suck it down, Argus

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Due to his youthful appearance, Clinton was often called the "Boy Governor".^[44][45][46] He worked on educational reform and directed the maintenance of Arkansas's roads, with wife Hillary leading a successful committee on urban health care reform. During his term, he helped transform Arkansas's economy and improved the state's educational system.^[48] For senior citizens, he removed the sales tax from medications and increased the home property-tax exemption.^[49] He became a leading figure among the New Democrats, a group of Democrats who advocated welfare reform, smaller government, and other policies not supported by liberals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton#Law_school

Are you frickin kidding me Argus? Are you really that naive? 

You could take that whole list of accomplishments (which aren't charitable btw, he just did that stuff while he was on the public dime) and make the same arguments that people make against Trump's accomplishments as Prez. "OMG he gave tax breaks to rich seniors!" "He changed the education system, now it's just belching out Nazis!!" 

He advocated for super-predatory blacks to stay in jail forever, and for people who sold weed to go to jail. Such a great guy (true to Dem ways, he gotta stick it to them n's)

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Well... he just fired his national intelligence director after someone from the department had the gall to give a briefing that said Russia was once again trying to help Trump win the election. He replaced him with a loyalist who has zero intelligence experience. Trump has, in fact, almost from the beginning, ignored what American intelligence agencies say about threats to the United States, ignored what his generals say, ignored what the experts in foreign affairs say, and curried favor with the world's dictators. As a result, US soft power has all-but disappeared in the world. China and Russia are spreading out and increasing their influence everywhere, and even America's allies no longer consider the US to be reliable.

On the home front he's made the country more divided than at any time since the Vietnam War, coarsened national dialogue, overseen a massive increase in the deficit and debt while the country's infrastructure falls apart and seems to be doing his best to turn the Justice Department into his personal political police to use against his enemies.

Naaaaaiiiiiiiiiiive.

Russian collusion is dead and buried Argus. Give it up. All that's left is tracking the dept of the FBI malfeasance.

Trump fired someone and replaced them. OOOHHHHH! That's proof of a conspiracy if there ever was any.

Get a load of this Argus:

Your sacred cow, "Quid Pro Quo Joe" held back $1B in loan guarantees in order to get a prosecutor in a foreign country fired, and then he "PUT A GUY WHO WAS SOLID IN HIS PLACE." In a foreign country. One who stopped the investigation into the company where his son was gifted a $50K/mo job. 

Welcome to the back of the woodshed son. Come back any time. It was fun.

[WestCanMan]

Oops, I forgot to destroy some more of your idiocy.

1 hour ago, Argus said:

On the home front he's made the country more divided than at any time since the Vietnam War,

HALF THE DAMN COUNTRY WAS ON FIRE FOR 2014, 2015 & 2016. LOOK IT UP! THINGS WEREN'T SHOWING ANY SIGNS OF GETTING BETTER WHILE OBAMA WAS PREZ. LOOK THAT UP TOO!

How many race riots have there been since Trump was president? None.

How popular is cop-killing nowadays? It's not a big thing all of a sudden. 

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coarsened national dialogue,

Yay you got ONE THING RIGHT. Then again, a broken clock is right twice a day.

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overseen a massive increase in the deficit and debt while the country's infrastructure falls apart

The debt doubled under Obama. He literally rang up more debt than every president before him, combined. He also gave rise to islamic state and let two people die in a US embassy without lifting a finger. Trump's looking pretty awesome by comparison. He's definitely the best US Prez in the last 20 years.

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and seems to be doing his best to turn the Justice Department into his personal political police to use against his enemies.

So sayeth the guy who supported the Kavanaugh witch hunt, the Russian collusion witch hunt, the Urainian witch hunt, and who thinks that Blatant Crimin' Joe Biden is pure as the driven snow.

That's some FUUUUUNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE shit right there.

[BubberMiley]

19 hours ago, Shady said:

Exactly.  it's constantly the shell game with eyeball.  Constantly moving the goal posts, switching the subject.  

Still incapable of defending yourself and shifting the subject to anybody who holds a reasonable position on Trump? Still? Don't you get bored failing?

[Shady]

2 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

Still incapable of defending yourself and shifting the subject to anybody who holds a reasonable position on Trump? Still? Don't you get bored failing?

You haven't been a party to the conversation so far, so you're really not up to speed on the situation.  It's nice to see you back though.  Did you have a nervous breakdown after Trump wasn't impeached?