Guest Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Just now, jacee said: Oh I see. Equating extremists - arguably not Muslims in practices - with mainstream Muslims. Mhm. Who are you trolling for? Are you on the public payroll? Inquiring minds want to know. They seem to think they are Muslims. They seem to really hate some other Muslims too. I wouldn't want to attend a Shiite wedding or a funeral in a Sunni part of town. I'm okay with the notion that Islamophobia isn't a problem if you want to insist, but I wouldn't be okay with the notion that it is, except that which kills the most Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 6 hours ago, Rue said: I edited and tried to answer your questions. I will tell you one sad answer I have no remedy for yet. I don't know how to discuss anti Semitism or anti Islam yet without it breaking own into a nasty hateful argument. Surely we have to have our governments encouraging inter faith tolerance. in a non partisan manner. More participation from inter faith councils is my best answer not mp's. I agree that interfaith councils are a part of the solution, but they aren't likely to reach people like me, who are not religious. I don't know what the answer is either, but I am saddened that there is so much fear, hate and intolerance in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 33 minutes ago, bcsapper said: They seem to think they are Muslims. They seem to really hate some other Muslims too. I wouldn't want to attend a Shiite wedding or a funeral in a Sunni part of town. I'm okay with the notion that Islamophobia isn't a problem if you want to insist, but I wouldn't be okay with the notion that it is, except that which kills the most Muslims. In Canada? Try to at least pretend to stay on topic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, jacee said: I'd like to see your face off between the Qur'an and the old testament ... in an appropriate forum. The Qur'an isn't in question in this thread. People may practice their religion as they choose in Canada. Or not practice any religion, as I choose. Nobody cares about your quibbles with each other's archaic texts. I suppose such a thing might be relevant if Christians were conducting a global Jihad on the Infidel. But they aren't. Quote Nobody cares about your quibbles with each other's archaic texts. The Quran both promotes and incites violence against the Unbeliever. Also, there is no such thing as 'Thou Shall Not Kill' in the Quran. Edited September 25, 2017 by DogOnPorch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 17 minutes ago, jacee said: In Canada? Try to at least pretend to stay on topic. Islam is a global phenomena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, jacee said: In Canada? Try to at least pretend to stay on topic. I don't worry too much about the OP. Didn't you just argue about native athletes in a grade 6 math thread? Edited September 25, 2017 by bcsapper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Just now, bcsapper said: I don't worry too much about the OP. Didnt you just argue about native athletes in a grade 6 math thread? It is important to jacee that nobody discuss Islam. It is Haram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, jacee said: In law, it doesn't matter. In reality, it's quite unlikely to work on me. However, it does work on disaffected people who want to blame their pain on an identifiable source, who want to feel part of a 'clan', who want to act out their pain in violence and vandalism. That's the Trump appeal. He's the global signal for racial hatred now. The disaffected are feeling pretty potent these days, being on the side of the President of the United States of America! Just like Hitler's Nazi youth felt. Yet it's ANTIFA acting like the jackbooted Nazi thugs. Book burning to follow. (Omni likes that book burning idea) Edited September 25, 2017 by DogOnPorch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 1 hour ago, jacee said: Oh I see. Equating extremists - arguably not Muslims in practices - with mainstream Muslims. Mhm. Who are you trolling for? Are you on the public payroll? Inquiring minds want to know. Incorrect.... Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them). https://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/186 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers. https://quran.com/3/151 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 22 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: I don't dictate whom you support. It sure isn't Israel... I don't dictate that for you either, our government sure does though for both of us. That is where your issue really lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 14 hours ago, jacee said: I'd like to see your face off between the Qur'an and the old testament ... in an appropriate forum. Is the majority of the old testament given over to discussion about what to do to non-believers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, jacee said: The Qur'an isn't in question in this thread. Jacee you need to watch the latest Star Trek. It has promise. That said get out of outer space and come back to this thread. Islamophobia is an undefined concept that suggests certain comments or discussions or references to Islam are hateful. How would one know if the words or discussions or references to Islam are hateful unless they examine the contents of those words? The very right to criticize Islam comes under scrutiny when the term Islamophobia might be used to shut down legitimate criticism of Islam. When I deal with Dialamah on the subject she does not claim to me I can not discuss or criticize Islam. I think what she has said to me consistently is that the line for when such criticism is crossed and goes from legitimate criticism to negative stereotypes of all Muslims inciting violence is a concern for her and othersand she frames the concern no different than I do anti-Semitism. As well it is nonsensical to say people may practice their religion aa they choose in Canada. Absolute nonsense. Muslims can not have more than one wife. Certain Christians and certain Mormons have been told they can not have more than one wife. People in the name of their religion can not beat their wives or children and ignore existing criminal and family law. There are most certainly restrictions to our religions. If someone in the name of their religion do not want to hire a gay or lesbian or someone of a faith they believe is unworthy, they will face a law suit for discrimination and violation of human rights. You don't like abortion, you can march and speak out about it, but you don't have the right to shoot doctors performing it in clinics. Part of being a democratic society is engaging in constant dialogue as to what we as a society and as individuals find acceptable and compatible. Its a constant process. At a basic rudimentary level this issue comes down to politeness. Can I debate Islam respectfully and can they debate Judaism or Christianity, etc., respectfully. Respectful debate is not the problem-emotional hateful debate is. Where one ends and the other begins is the million dollar question and I don't believe government should regulate that determination-I think it has to be decided for and by the people at a grass roots level in neighbourhoods, community centres, workplaces, inter-faith, inter-cultural and other situations where people of different back-grounds come together because of a common interest and usually it takes a flood or fire or gag shooting to do that and sometimes entertainment events or sports or art. I worry because where I live I see concentrated cultural-religious-ethnic ghettoes. The people in them are using the messages of feel good liberals like Trudeau to believe it is their right to remain unassimilated-he sends an unrealistic message that minority groups are welcomed without limits. He does not set limits because he believes its politically unpopular and would negatively impact on his ability to get their votes. Politicians don't say what has to be said, they say what they think gets votes and Trudeau is a classic example of this when it comes to Islamophobia something he allowed an MP to raise as a partisan political gesture that I would argue divides people and breeds resentment against Muslims and does not help them in fact it stigmatizes them and defines them as victims. Islam presents a unique problem in that intrinsic to its message is the lesson that non Muslim believers are inferior. Until the time the concept of defining non Muslims as kafir is rejected by mainstream, Islam. it will be at odds with our basic, fundamental democratic values of equality So all I can say and I repeat it again, at a grass roots level, we need to reach out and encourage and form alliances with progressive Muslims who reject the concept of khafir and encourage them to stand strong against fundamentalist Muslims rather than lump them in with extremist Muslims. Edited September 25, 2017 by Rue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 This whole M-103 is one of the most divisive policy that I have ever heard. And again his speech at the UN pretty well blaming european -canadians for all the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, PIK said: And again his speech at the UN pretty well blaming european -canadians for all the problems. Given that you have been a disinformation agent on this topic in the past, posting hysterical exaggerations, why should we believe this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 1 hour ago, PIK said: This whole M-103 is one of the most divisive policy that I have ever heard. And again his speech at the UN pretty well blaming european -canadians for all the problems. Was this his speech regarding First Nations that he blamed European-Canadians for everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 18 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: I suppose such a thing might be relevant if Christians were conducting a global Jihad on the Infidel. But they aren't. The Quran both promotes and incites violence against the Unbeliever. Also, there is no such thing as 'Thou Shall Not Kill' in the Quran. Nobody cares. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 18 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: Islam is a global phenomena. Go to an appropriate international forum. This one's about Canada. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 5 hours ago, GostHacked said: I don't dictate that for you either, our government sure does though for both of us. That is where your issue really lies. What leads you to believe DOP has any issue with dictators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, jacee said: Go to an appropriate international forum. This one's about Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, eyeball said: What leads you to believe DOP has any issue with dictators? That's a good point. I wonder of the ones he prefers over others that he does not. I won't jump to conclusions or misconstrues what he posts like he does to others. That would simply make me look like an asshole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Rue said: Islamophobia is an undefined concept that suggests certain comments or discussions or references to Islam are hateful. No, its a well defined concept known as racism. This is due to comments, discussions and references that are made towards Muslims in a hateful manner, which is all too often. Often enough to conclude that Islamophobia is a serious issue. Its an issue that is only too well understood given the number of times its reared its ugly head in our stupid society and world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 1 hour ago, jacee said: Nobody cares. Still...the Quran and thus Islam promotes and incites violence. Even in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said: Still...the Quran and thus Islam promotes and incites violence. Even in Canada. So it's ok for you to incite and wilfully promote hatred against Muslims in Canada? Is that your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Goddess said: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/forum/21-religion-amp-politics/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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