Islamophobia in Canada

[dialamah]

33 minutes ago, Argus said:

I would not really doubt it myself. However, just because London police had that immediate reaction - 

Yes, it would be interesting to know why they've made that determination so early.  Wearing swastikas doesn't necessarily mean someone hates Muslims, does it?   The police aren't going so far as to call it terrorism, though Trudeau has, unfortunately, especially if he has to backtrack as more information comes to light.   The media has already interviewed people who knew the killer (though I can't find the link again), one of whom was from the Middle East or Africa apparently.  I don't recall it saying if this friend was Muslim or not.

It will be interesting how this plays out.

 

[dialamah]

9 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Lies are all you have, aren't they? 

I have said no such thing you disingenuous POS. 

You have actually.  You quote some Koranic scripture/hadith requiring them to kill some category of people, then you say "That's what a Muslim does.  If they don't do it, they aren't following the commands of Allah, and aren't Muslim".

Don't lie, you POS.

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You have actually.  You quote some Koranic scripture/hadith requiring them to kill some category of people, then you say "That's what a Muslim does.  If they don't do it, they aren't following the commands of Allah, and aren't Muslim".

Don't lie, you POS.

 

Go find the quote or shut the fuck up. I've said no such thing.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the Nazi holocaust deniers claimed the same thing about Jews in their concentration camps

The difference being that it wasn't just people inside of the residential schools that were dying. Canadians in modern cities were also dying at the time. That wasn't the case in Germany, was it Yz...

 

For your edification: 

1) In 1885 over 3,000 people died of smallpox right in Mtl, and the last major outbreak wasn't until 1924, in Windsor. Smallpox was something to be feared back when that res school was young.

2) There wasn't a form of penicillin that was effective against TB until 1946, and there were still almost 19,000 TB beds in Canada in 1953. In 1924 there were about 7,000 people a year dying from TB.

3) 55,000 people died of the Spanish Flu in Canada. 

 

https://nowtoronto.com/news/how-many-indigenous-children-died-in-canadas-residential-schools

Quote

According to Hamilton’s report, “significant numbers” of children in residential schools contracted diseases. Hamilton says that “Some students died at the schools, while other seriously ill children were returned home, or admitted to hospitals or sanatoria where some may have later died.”

In 1906, Dr. Peter Bryce, the chief medical officer for Indian Affairs, noted the susceptibility of Indigenous populations to disease, writing in his annual report that “the Indian population of Canada has a mortality rate of more than double that of the whole population and in some provinces more than three times.”

Tuberculosis was the most prevalent disease. But the Spanish flu and influenza epidemics also took a heavy toll.

For example, Hamilton’s report recounts that all but two of the children and all of the staff at the residential school at Fort St. James, BC, contracted influenza. Some 78 people died, including students.

Father Joseph Allard, who served as the school principal at the time, is recorded in Hamilton’s report as writing in his diary that not all the bodies could be given a proper burial. “Several bodies were piled up in an empty cabin because there was no grave ready. A large common grave was dug for them.”

WTF do ya know? Basically everything that I predicted is starting to come out as being the most likely scenario.

The article just cites 'influenza' as being the cause of death for the 78 people in FSJ, and the only date given for a report by Dr Bryce was 1906, but I'm not sure if Hamilton was citing Bryce's report in that paragraph. Still, if 78 people died in the Fort St John school during the SpFlu, and the res school at Kamloops was the biggest one in Canada, how many do you think died there during that year? 

Why do I have to do your thinking for you?

[WestCanMan]

I should actually thank you for that post Yz, I might not have found that link which confirms the likelihood of all my theories from posts in the Kamloops thread otherwise. 

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

1. I have a question for you guys Michael and Dialamah about confronting Argus and DoP, and others, about spreading hate. My question is this what responsibility does our own government have in this situation,

2. lets not forget the media bombarding everyone's TV nightly with terrorist attacks from across the globe, coverage of dead Canadian soldiers being escorted home, and their coverage of ramp ceremonies of crying soldiers loading up on to a Herc a close comrade in arms in a flag draped coffin... This went on for years, every night there was something on TV, and none of it was portraying Islam in a good light, and when one good story did come up it was sandwiched between bad stories....

3. While in Afghanistan we would have dog and pony shows for our government MP and other officials, patting us on the back for bringing peace to the region, while off the record asking how many we were killing, what was our losses ,what areas had we pacified, keep up the good work...They wanted to know are they getting their monies worth... Knowing full well why we were here " to close with and destroy as many of those terrorist bastards as possible", and collateral damage was negated with a check for a few thousand dollars... You can't do that job and not have serious dislike for the enemy.. That enemy came from almost every middle eastern country on the planet... and at home they are continuously being updated on Afghanistan, other middle eastern countries one can not just turn it off, it does have an effect on most people... This hate is all around us in various forms, and it is coming at us in all directions.... and it is in majority of people, much like racism and other bad behaviors it is not going to change over night. 

1.  This government proposed a statement condemning Islmophobia.  The Conservatives refused to support it.  Now, a statement doesn't do much to stem hate, but at least it's taking some kind of stand.  The Conservatives couldn't even bring themselves to do that much, because they know who their core support is.

2.  Yes, the media reports on what is *unusual*, *dramatic*, *shocking*.  People need to remember that, instead of thinking that things that are unusual and shocking are the whole story.  This is not to downplay the terror, grief and pain suffered by the victims of these attacks; it just pays to remember that other Muslims suffered the same terror, grief and pain, and that, just like us, most of them deplore such attacks.

3.  I can understand how service in Afghanistan has influenced your views about Islam and Muslims.   I view you as someone who is passionate about what he believes, but is not unfair or unwilling to see both sides.  Goddess has suffered mistreatment at the hands of Muslim, so I understand why it's hard for her to understand the difference between criticizing a religion and denigrating everyone in that religion.  I have a sister who is Muslim, and I have met Muslims who are nothing like the stereotypes presented by Goddess, DoP, Argus and others; when these stereotypes are featured on this forum and it's implied (or even outright stated) that this is just how Muslims are I just don't find that acceptable.  

I don't enjoy these arguments online, and if I were a more polished speaker, I would probably do better at getting my points across.  But just like I confronted a woman for verbally harassing and insulting a couple of immigrant women on the bus because they weren't speaking English, calling them names and making nasty assumptions about them, I can't stay silent when I see the same thing here.

I don't think any of us are really bad, whether we're left/right/anti-Muslim or pro LGBTQ++.  I am sure that Argus loves Canada just as I do and wants us and the country to be a beacon of freedom and success for the world; that Goddess would do anything to prevent women from being abused by men because their religious leaders teach them that it's acceptable.

Were I a different person, I wouldn't be involved in such heated and sometimes unkind discussions.  I am disappointed in myself, sometimes, for what/how I post, but I'd be even more disappointed if I ignored something that I truly believed was wrong, not just in fact but also in the impact it has on our larger society.  

[dialamah]

 

 

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Go find the quote or shut the fuck up. I've said no such thing.

Ok.  This is just a a couple of times: 

On 10/26/2020 at 4:52 PM, DogOnPorch said:

Every Muslim follows the Quran. If not...not a Muslim.  

 

On 10/19/2020 at 9:06 AM, DogOnPorch said:

The Quran states exactly what Muslims are to believe. There is no moderate Quran.  

There's plenty of examples like that, usually accompanied by posts detailing atrocities extremists have indulged in.

Are you going to try another lie, here, or just admit you've been busted?

 

[Argus]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Yes, it would be interesting to know why they've made that determination so early.  Wearing swastikas doesn't necessarily mean someone hates Muslims, does it?  

We don't know he was wearing swastikas. All we have for that is the taxi driver, who was too shaken to talk directly to the media saying they might have been swastikas. I would say if he was the type to wear swastikas there's not much doubt he killed them either because they were Muslims or brown or immigrants or foreign dressed or all four. 

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

 

1. I don't really put much weight into what the government puts out, not because it is the liberals because all sides are guilty of doing it. Words are cheap, it's the action part we need more of.

2. My point is our nation has been engaged on the war on terror for almost 20 years now, and unfortunately most people equate terrorism as a Islamic or Muslim practice, and while i can't speak for everyone, I know not every Muslim is a terrorist or my enemy, it is going to take a long time to change how i think. I also want to make it clear, although i may be guarded when it comes to Muslims in general, I'm not that guy that looks or wants to do them harm. 

I also get that most are coming from a war torn or major conflict area, and are more than likely to be suffering from PTSD as well, in one way i can relate to what they must be going through, other than that in my opinion i have nothing in common our cultures are vastly different, and perhaps it is because i only see the worst parts of the middle east in their worst moments but what i seen was beyond comprehension, to the point it was evil at its worse. And it was far to common not to judge everyone that lived in that country.

3. It is my experience that not many people will stand up to such behavior, most ignore the entire thing like it is not happening, kudos to you. 

4. I think everyone is capable of doing some very nasty things, in situations that we consider abnormal, it would not take much in a lot of people, to go from good law abiding people to criminal even here in the west, we are held back by some very fragile laws, and without police or someone enforcing those few laws, we would be no better than any other 3 world nation, just look at the states during hurricane Katrina, or Ice storm in Quebec and Ontario, where the strong feed on the weak, and take what they want. 

5. Not that i see both of us agreeing on most topics, i would not want you to change any of that, NEVER be disappointed in yourself for holding or standing up for what you perceive as your moral values, Your holding your own in what is mostly a conservative forum, not many people would or could do that. My father used to say it takes all kinds of people to make a village, we are all different don't change lanes to fit in , because it gets tough.

[dialamah]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

We don't know he was wearing swastikas. All we have for that is the taxi driver, who was too shaken to talk directly to the media saying they might have been swastikas. I would say if he was the type to wear swastikas there's not much doubt he killed them either because they were Muslims or brown or immigrants or foreign dressed or all four. 

Yeah, only going by what the taxi driver said, and I think there was someone else who said the same.  Anyway, we certainly don't have the full story yet, if we ever do.  

[Argus]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

1.  This government proposed a statement condemning Islmophobia.  The Conservatives refused to support it. 

The Conservatives party seems to be the only one which still supports freedom of speech. They didn't like Islam being the only religion singled out for special protection in the motion, and they didn't like the uncertain definition of "islamophobia".

Conservative MP David Anderson told the House his party asked Islamophobia be changed to "hatred against Muslims." "We're stuck with a divisive term, Mr. Speaker, that means nothing, or anything, which is not clearly defined," he said.

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

 I have a sister who is Muslim, and I have met Muslims who are nothing like the stereotypes presented by Goddess, DoP, Argus and others; when these stereotypes are featured on this forum and it's implied (or even outright stated) that this is just how Muslims are I just don't find that acceptable.  

We've been over this. It should not be necessary among intelligent people to point out that you don't mean ALL of anything when you refer to a group. And when a group's behaviour concerns you the natural thing to do is bring up examples of that behaviour. You can call it stereotyping but when we read PEW polls about 70%, 80%, 90% of Muslims in certain countries (including Egypt) supporting the backwardness, brutality and misogyny of Sharia law some of us are concerned about importing large numbers of these people here without any real screening.

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Were I a different person, I wouldn't be involved in such heated and sometimes unkind discussions.  I am disappointed in myself, sometimes, for what/how I post, but I'd be even more disappointed if I ignored something that I truly believed was wrong, not just in fact but also in the impact it has on our larger society.  

I have to admit that I don't enjoy angry, insult-filled arguments online or in person. I don't like some of the ways this country is changing and its traditions and history being denigrated. We bring in too many foreigners too fast and do nothing to select those who would be most adaptable, and flexible. We don't even try to integrate them and teach them pride in Canada, its history, institutions and accomplishments because progressives don't feel any pride in those things.

And I admit to getting provoked by moronic, idiotic, stupidly emotional bullshit like what MH is spewing lately. When he accuses me of supporting the murder of an innocent family out for a walk I just want to tell him to F off and put him in my ignore file for good.

[Charles Anthony]

This thread is temporarily locked. 

 

You all need to tone down the inflammatory rhetoric or take your games elsewhere.