Trudeau defends his drug policy, but stats say they are not saving lives.

[blackbird]

Trudeau claims his government's drug policies are saving lives.  But the statistics tell a different story.

quote

“What the science tells us is that the best ways to support people struggling with addictions, first of all, safe consumption sites. There was one when we came into office in 2015, now there are dozens and dozens and dozens across the country, and they are saving lives significantly,” Trudeau said.

Here’s the thing, Trudeau has increased the number of places for people to consume hard drugs but hasn’t funded or mandated addiction services to help people kick their habit. The result isn’t that lives are being saved by his policies but instead people are dying.

Trudeau said that the expansion of safe consumption sites since his government took office has saved lives, however, in 2015, British Columbia recorded 529 “drug toxicity deaths” but in 2022 there were 2,272 or an increase of more than 300% in one province over seven years. 

In Ontario, the number of opioid-related deaths went from 728 in 2015 to 2,907 in 2021. The number of emergency room visits from opioids alone went from 3,628 in 2015 to 17,023 in 2021.

The more permissive attitude is not saving lives by any standard.

At the end of January, British Columbia was granted permission to decriminalize what the federal government deemed personal use amounts of certain hard drugs. Anyone found with 2.5 grams or less of heroin, morphine, and fentanyl, crack, cocaine, meth or ecstasy won’t face charges.

Advocates for making Canada’s drug laws more lenient regularly point to places like Portugal which legalized virtually all drugs more than 20 years ago. What they don’t tell you is that you can still be busted for possession but sent for treatment rather than being sent to jail.

In Canada, we seem to want to adopt the policy that says make drugs legal, make them easier to get but we don’t want to offer treatment for addictions. This has been my problem with the legalization and safe consumption argument for years. The governments pushing easier access to drugs for addicts don’t make easier access for addiction treatment part of the package.    unquote

Trudeau claims his drug policy saves lives but overdose deaths rise | Ottawa Sun

If safe consumption sites and legalization of a certain amount is the answer, why have the number of people dying of overdoses been going up?

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

If safe consumption sites and legalization of a certain amount is the answer, why have the number of people dying of overdoses been going up?

Because we have an economic system which is owned by literal oligarchs who'd rather let people die on the streets than letting the government tax them and their multiple investment properties, and obstinately refuse any kind of development for housing to keep their 'investments' grow in value artificially at the expense of everyone else.

The worse province in terms of housing is indeed BC. This is the worse province in terms of living costs, while salaries aren't that much higher compared to the cost-of-life index. This is the worse province in terms of drug addictions. This has been the case for many years already.

People are desesperate and repression has never worked. The war on drugs is an obvious failure, and our economic system is failing us completely, especially those with lower pay or who had the misfortune of growing up living abuse and are left abandoned by the system.

[CdnFox]

there is no such thing as "Safe Drug" supplies for these people.
 

The whole premise is based on the idea that they will prefer weaker drugs to stornger drugs and will make good decisions with their lives.  Neither of those things is true.

So they sell the weaker drugs to school kids and use the money to buy harder drugs and die.

Trying to stop that is like trying to stop the tide coming in with your hands.

The experiment has failed, as it was predicted it would.  All we can really do is make sure there's lots of rehab opportunity and support and let those who want to actually save thier own lives take advantage of that and let those who don't die.

[QuebecOverCanada]

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/poverty-homelessness-and-social-stigma-make-addiction-more-deadly-202109282602

Poverty, homelessness, and social stigma make addiction more deadly

---

This article shows how poverty is also a major health crisis issue, maybe the biggest contributor to many individuals' health decay. 

A major contributor to said poverty is the incredibly unaffordable housing, which increases homelessness.

Many studies show that poverty increases the likelihood of dying of overdoses, as poor people buy cheaper drugs which are worse in quality.

Edited September 27, 2023 by QuebecOverCanada

[OftenWrong]

17 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Poverty, homelessness, and social stigma make addiction more deadly.

Totally agree, and we know which way we are going with this. The problem is deeper than these government fish-heads can resolve. With their half-measures, can only make it worse.

[herbie]

A; Safe drug sites are part of Health Services, provincial. Trudeau doesn't have dick shit to do with them.
B: What does harm reduction and safe supply got to do with the increasing number of deaths from tainted drugs? Only an utter fool could conclude it is causing that.  Obviously the street supply is increasingly toxic - spell that 'carfentanyl'.

Given that. the sun rises in the East and communist countries were monstly in the Eastern Bloc, therefore we must conclude Communism is caused by the Sun. Trudeau is a son, therefore it's all his fault,

[impartialobserver]

for those who have never done data analysis such as the OP, drawing causality is easy. For those who know statistics (not charts and graph).. correlation does not always mean causality. The OP leaves a lot of context in order to make his narrative sound good. 

[OftenWrong]

9 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

The OP leaves a lot of context in order to make his narrative sound good.

Yep. Look away, Dixieland. But who needs to even argue by stats? Let common sense prevail. Yes we should help substance abusers by providing them a safe space, clean needles that can be safely disposed of, and medical  assistance on site. But is not enough. In fact it could make it worse because all it does is provide safer access. The hardcore addict is thus conveniently enabled to enjoy their drug habit, but what they also need is treatment for addiction.

[impartialobserver]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

Yep. Look away, Dixieland. But who needs to even argue by stats? Let common sense prevail. Yes we should help substance abusers by providing them a safe space, clean needles that can be safely disposed of, and medical  assistance on site. But is not enough. In fact it could make it worse because all it does is provide safer access. The hardcore addict is thus conveniently enabled to enjoy their drug habit, but what they also need is treatment for addiction.

Common sense is the catch-all folks use when they can't prove their claim with data. According to political know-it-alls.. the decision to do drugs is 100% tied to government policy. Forget about brain chemistry, prices, etc.. these addicts watch the news religiously in hopes of more relaxed policies. 

 

[TreeBeard]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

however, in 2015, British Columbia recorded 529 “drug toxicity deaths” but in 2022 there were 2,272 or an increase of more than 300% in one province over seven years. 

In Ontario, the number of opioid-related deaths went from 728 in 2015 to 2,907 in 2021. The number of emergency room visits from opioids alone went from 3,628 in 2015 to 17,023 in 2021.

So, both jurisdictions quadrupled.  Seems like safe injection sites in BC (which are in Vancouver) didn’t make the problem worse.  
 

Your attempt to blame safe injection sites for the increase is a failure. 

[OftenWrong]

32 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Common sense is the catch-all folks use when they can't prove their claim with data. According to political know-it-alls.. the decision to do drugs is 100% tied to government policy. Forget about brain chemistry, prices, etc.. these addicts watch the news religiously in hopes of more relaxed policies. 

 

I said the government needs to provide resources so that the people on the ground can give them treatment. Without providing treatment, government-sanctioned safe spaces could make things worse.

And that is common sense, whether you believe in it or not.

[OftenWrong]

Just now, TreeBeard said:

So, both jurisdictions quadrupled.  Seems like safe injection sites in BC (which are in Vancouver) didn’t make the problem worse.  
 

Your attempt to blame safe injection sites for the increase is a failure. 

We hear stories from the street saying the hard drug users get "safe supply" from these sites but they turn around and sell it to buy fentanyl. That is what they actually prefer. They've gotten to a point where they don't give a sheeit if they die. The high is everything.

[eyeball]

The reason addicts want fentanyl is because they can't get heroin.

Try supplying what they want instead of whatever it is they're turning their noses up at.

[cougar]

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

Trudeau claims his government's drug policies are saving lives.  But the statistics tell a different story.

quote

“What the science tells us is that the best ways to support people struggling with addictions, first of all, safe consumption sites. There was one when we came into office in 2015, now there are dozens and dozens and dozens across the country, and they are saving lives significantly,” Trudeau said.

Here’s the thing, Trudeau has increased the number of places for people to consume hard drugs but hasn’t funded or mandated addiction services to help people kick their habit. The result isn’t that lives are being saved by his policies but instead people are dying.

Trudeau said that the expansion of safe consumption sites since his government took office has saved lives, however, in 2015, British Columbia recorded 529 “drug toxicity deaths” but in 2022 there were 2,272 or an increase of more than 300% in one province over seven years. 

In Ontario, the number of opioid-related deaths went from 728 in 2015 to 2,907 in 2021. The number of emergency room visits from opioids alone went from 3,628 in 2015 to 17,023 in 2021.

The more permissive attitude is not saving lives by any standard.

At the end of January, British Columbia was granted permission to decriminalize what the federal government deemed personal use amounts of certain hard drugs. Anyone found with 2.5 grams or less of heroin, morphine, and fentanyl, crack, cocaine, meth or ecstasy won’t face charges.

Advocates for making Canada’s drug laws more lenient regularly point to places like Portugal which legalized virtually all drugs more than 20 years ago. What they don’t tell you is that you can still be busted for possession but sent for treatment rather than being sent to jail.

In Canada, we seem to want to adopt the policy that says make drugs legal, make them easier to get but we don’t want to offer treatment for addictions. This has been my problem with the legalization and safe consumption argument for years. The governments pushing easier access to drugs for addicts don’t make easier access for addiction treatment part of the package.    unquote

Trudeau claims his drug policy saves lives but overdose deaths rise | Ottawa Sun

If safe consumption sites and legalization of a certain amount is the answer, why have the number of people dying of overdoses been going up?

On the outside, what I see is this.

Trudeau legalizes drugs ; his wife starts a business manufacturing and selling drugs.

Then they separate to make it look acceptable (as opposed to unacceptable).  Some say the two will get together again, once Trudeau is voted out ; which would leave him managing a drug distribution empire.

Isn't it Really embarrassing for a premier's wife to be manufacturing and selling opioids?  Under any circumstances?

She couldn't think of a better business or use of her time?     F* Me !

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

 The OP leaves a lot of context in order to make his narrative sound good. 

Even then, were they comparing BC to ontario? Is Ontario a safe injection province?

[blackbird]

Nobody is supposed to mention personal responsibility these days.  That would be condemned as stigma.  But the truth is nobody can be treated unless they are willing to be.  But heavy blame is put on society as the culprit.  Many say housing shortage, high cost of living, inflation, homelessness, etc. are all to blame.  We will likely always have these societal problems.  If people are waiting for those problems to go away, the OD crisis will never end.  There are also a lot of people who ODed who were living in normal homes and lives.  It is not just on the streets this happens.  Very common in homes too.  So what is the solution besides waiting for a utopian society to be created?

[herbie]

So by your own admission, how the hell are you trying to tie the blame to safe supply and injection sites?

The people ODing and dying are not due to either. are they?

The only "Drug Policy" you can pin on the Trudeau Liberals is cannabis legalization.

[blackbird]

6 minutes ago, herbie said:

So by your own admission, how the hell are you trying to tie the blame to safe supply and injection sites?

The people ODing and dying are not due to either. are they?

The only "Drug Policy" you can pin on the Trudeau Liberals is cannabis legalization.

Have you ever heard the phrase "contributing factors"?  There are lots of contributing factors.  But the solution is not aiding and abetting it.  There has to be treatment and rehab or it will never end.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

Trudeau claims his government's drug policies are saving lives.

He's not lying.

They're f****ed up on drugs and on the streets, but aren't committing suicide. So their life is wasted sure, but not being lost. Many who overdose, can be brought back to life, to further their misery.

Life saved. You're welcome.

[WestCanMan]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

Anyone found with 2.5 grams or less of heroin, morphine, and fentanyl, crack, cocaine, meth or ecstasy won’t face charges.

Legalizing Fentanyl now?

Is it like marijuana, where they started off telling people that it would turn their kids into psychotic zombies just as a scare tactic?

Last I heard Fentanyl was pretty lethal. 

[TreeBeard]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

We hear stories from the street saying the hard drug users get "safe supply" from these sites but they turn around and sell it to buy fentanyl. That is what they actually prefer. They've gotten to a point where they don't give a sheeit if they die. The high is everything.

The safe injection sites don’t provide drugs. The safe supply stuff is a different program.  It’s never going to be a perfect solution!   We’re talking about addicts who are often dealing with other serious mental health issues.  
 

Whomever they’re selling it to gets the safe supply though, no?

[OftenWrong]

31 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Whomever they’re selling it to gets the safe supply though, no?

Because they wouldn't do the fentanyl at that stage, they're not totally f*cked up yet.

Modern parenting: "Thank god, little Johnny's only doing crack."

[CdnFox]

7 hours ago, herbie said:

A; Safe drug sites are part of Health Services, provincial. Trudeau doesn't have dick shit to do with them.

THey operate under a FEDERAL CRIMINAL EXEMPTION -  without trudeau they wouldn't exist.  Why must you always lie to make your point?

 

Quote

B: What does harm reduction and safe supply got to do with the increasing number of deaths from tainted drugs? Only an utter fool could conclude it is causing that.  Obviously the street supply is increasingly toxic - spell that 'carfentanyl'.

Utter fools like the cops and researchers?  They sell the 'safe' drugs to kids and buy the hard drugs that kill them

 

Quote

Given that. the sun rises in the East and communist countries were monstly in the Eastern Bloc, therefore we must conclude Communism is caused by the Sun. Trudeau is a son, therefore it's all his fault,

Makes about as much sense as anything else you lefties say,

[Army Guy]

4 hours ago, herbie said:

So by your own admission, how the hell are you trying to tie the blame to safe supply and injection sites?

The people ODing and dying are not due to either. are they?

The only "Drug Policy" you can pin on the Trudeau Liberals is cannabis legalization.

Why is it we need to spend tax dollars on these programs, not only on safe drugs, but also on police and fire and rescue, EMT services, plus all these safe injection sites...all it is doing is giving them one more day, tommorrow it will start all over....until they die...CBC did a documentary and in they reported one person was saved by EMT techs 8 times in a 24 hour period... Drug war was a failure, and so is this farce... it makes as much sense as giving alcoholics free booze...And tell me the federal government did not play a role in these policies...The federal government has their hands all over it, they gave the Provinces permission to do it....Do you even fact check your stuff, or you make it up 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Army Guy

[herbie]

Such a disgusting attitude. Can't ever directly address a point, pretend a different point was made that you can address.
Fall back on the entirely selfish why should "I" excuse of those who pretend to be totally self sufficient. To the extent of suggesting we let people die over cost/benefit reasons.

Or the reasoning of the stupid that a study on A 'proves' something about B simply because two things exist simultaneously. They are not dying from 'safe supply' they are not dying at 'safe injection sites', that is the entire point of those things. To claim that is a lie is as stupid as claiming the Covid vax was to blame for how many people died of the disease.
They are dying because the illicit supply is way more deadly than it was in the past, and there are way more illicit drug users than your narrow conservative beliefs can ever comprehend.
That some people sold their scrips is moot.
That some people can't help themselves is moot. That means we are obligated to try to help them.
That you'd suggest criminal justice enforcements that failed for over a century are suddenly going to work is simply Id!otic.

Assh0liness is not next to Godliness no matter how loudly you people claim it is.