CPC Policy Convention 2023

[Nexii]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

I don't have a dog in this fight, but when was the last time you seen a trans man compete professional in men's sports, and frankly i don't think many men would really care if a women changed in the men's locker room to be honest, atleast not to the extent of vice versa......The question has been put to men attempting to be women why not just have a 3 rd league, where trans community can compete on their own, with each other, i don't think they are interested in it, or it would have been splashed over the media, these men are more interested in winning via superior biology for a much needed ego boost. And if that is the case why does it have to be at the expense of women...does not seem that fair...

The problem with a lot of this trans policy is that most of it isn't written by trans. We aren't common enough to be represented and that's not really going to change. That's why there is so much nonsense going around with it all, from both the right and left wings.

If you transition as a young teen the advantage is probably not significant. Hormones do have a huge effect in halting growth. But most trans females that you see in sports today did not do that - they waited until adulthood. And 50th percentile height for men is like 98th percentile for women. That's a huge advantage no matter what some studies try to cook up and say.

Of course, they aren't going to do something like common sense. The left wants to score points by painting the narrative that gender is entirely in your head and there is no biological component. The right say it's only biological. Both views are ridiculous as it's both, but that makes for more complex systems and talking points.

A third league is perhaps the only good option, but, let's be real. Female sports don't get much attention and trans sports would get even less. This might change over time but I'm doubtful it completely will.

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, Nexii said:

The problem with a lot of this trans policy is that most of it isn't written by trans. We aren't common enough to be represented and that's not really going to change. That's why there is so much nonsense going around with it all, from both the right and left wings.

If you transition as a young teen the advantage is probably not significant. Hormones do have a huge effect in halting growth. But most trans females that you see in sports today did not do that - they waited until adulthood. And 50th percentile height for men is like 98th percentile for women. That's a huge advantage no matter what some studies try to cook up and say.

Of course, they aren't going to do something like common sense. The left wants to score points by painting the narrative that gender is entirely in your head and there is no biological component. The right say it's only biological. Both views are ridiculous as it's both, but that makes for more complex systems and talking points.

A third league is perhaps the only good option, but, let's be real. Female sports don't get much attention and trans sports would get even less. This might change over time but I'm doubtful it completely will.

The LGBTQ community has one of the largest lobby groups on the planet, and some where in all them letters are you saying the trans community is not represented... Not sure what policies the trans community needs that are not already covered by the law and rights within Canada right now...and if thats the case why does the trans community need theri own policies. 

Hence why the media/ the rest of us has not made a big deal about females transition to males, It does not give them any advantage in Height, strength, body& bone mass to make a difference...

And here i thought gender dysphoria was a mental health issue...

So it is all about getting attention, and for now women will continue to pay the price in the way of inequality when it comes to sports, or even sharing a locker room. what i don't get is the trans community are fighting for equal rights, and the freedom to be who ever they want, and yet they have no problem taking rights away for women or using them as stepping stones...

[TreeBeard]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

The LGBTQ community has one of the largest lobby groups on the planet

Who?  What’s the lobby group called?  Where are they active?

[Nexii]

T is a smaller minority within LGBT than LGBT is to the entire population. And a ton of LGBT activists aren't even LGBT themselves, it is almost like a religion to some.

So yea T really isn't represented well. The issues raised aren't ones that really matter to most trans. The amount of elite trans athletes is vanishingly small. The locker room / bathroom thing, similar... most trans aren't going to even go those places until they're comfortable and far along.

If there was a #1 issue it'd be what medical care the government does and does not provide. Varies a ton by province which pretty much means its political and not science backed. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Nexii

[Moonlight Graham]

16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Thanks for the thoughtful post.  The policy vehicle seems pretty tepid... I think the CBC resolution would be better if they keep TV News even though it's on the decline.  And pretty cynical for them to leave CBC Quebec untouched.

Get rid of all government news.  CBC News is the biggest competitor for our struggling news media industry.  Give them a fighting chance and end the brainwashing, but push for more cancon on modern streaming sites.  Canadians can provide their own culture through media, we don't need the government to create it for us in their "vision".

Keeping Quebec CBC sounds like a doulbe-standard to please the Quebecois who get to maintain their french language culture via french CBC.  They've already sold out their values for votes in Quebec LOL.

[CdnFox]

41 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Keeping Quebec CBC sounds like a doulbe-standard to please the Quebecois who get to maintain their french language culture via french CBC.  They've already sold out their values for votes in Quebec LOL.

I can see how it would seem that way - but in reality it's more practical.

Of course in this day and age that's no longer necessary. Everyone has internet and access to as much content and information as they need.

So continuing to provide some services and shows in French actually is in keeping with the Mandate of the original CBC which is no longer applicable anywhere else in Canada. Keeping some limited French programming is appropriate as long as we're going to stick with this bilingual thing

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. Get rid of all government news.  CBC News is the biggest competitor for our struggling news media industry. Give them a fighting chance and end the brainwashing, but push for more cancon on modern streaming sites. 

2. Canadians can provide their own culture through media, we don't need the government to create it for us in their "vision".

3. Keeping Quebec CBC sounds like a doulbe-standard to please the Quebecois who get to maintain their french language culture via french CBC.  They've already sold out their values for votes in Quebec LOL.

1. Some of this I like.  I would rather them great digital local web stations, or create some kind of model/farm system for young journalists to get started.  We definitely need more reporting in this country and private media is simply cutting to the bone and mostly not funding real journalism.

The brainwashing charge is overreach.  

2. You have to go back pretty far to the roots of Cancon to explore the pros and cons of defunding Canadian culture.  Suffice it to say that even Mulroney wouldn't sell out our culture when he signed the GTA.  

3. Exactly, and with Quebec you're also dealing with media that gets various levels of public and private support.

[Nationalist]

End the climate taxation yoke. Yes.

Clean up sports. Yes.

End CBC. Yes.

Improve housing availability. Yes.

Well...my vote is sealed.

[I am Groot]

23 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I was the liason officer between my department and the local pride centre for quite a number of years. I got to know a number of trans people, both male to female and female to male. I have not only never met anyone who behaves in the manner you describe, I have never heard of anyone like that.

If you've never heard of them you've been deliberately ignoring such stories. Or maybe your news comes solely from the CBC and Toronto Star, who will ignore them for you. And why was the law written the way it was if things are as you say? According to the law a woman is anyone who says they're a woman. No need to actually transition in any way. They can also change back and forth. 

https://reduxx.info/exclusive-trans-woman-confronted-by-mother-in-swimming-pool-locker-room-is-a-convicted-pedophile/

23 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

. I am curious why you and others focus on Male to female transition but not female to Male? 

Because men posing as women create unfair and even dangerous situations for women where the reverse is not true.

Edited September 9, 2023 by I am Groot

[Nexii]

28 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

If you've never heard of them you've been deliberately ignoring such stories. Or maybe your news comes solely from the CBC and Toronto Star, who will ignore them for you. And why was the law written the way it was if things are as you say? According to the law a woman is anyone who says they're a woman. No need to actually transition in any way. They can also change back and forth. 

Because men posing as women create unfair and even dangerous situations for women where the reverse is not true.

Yea I don't disagree it's gone too far the other way. The problem used to be that you couldn't change gender until you'd done everything (i.e. sex change surgery, which is usually done last). Which was not really ideal either because you had to live 'as a female' for a year or more before qualifying. And it pushed people into doing the surgery, whether they really wanted to do that last step or just live outwardly as female.

To me, the defining line should be that you are on hormones. That's really the gold standard for whether you're transitioning or not. Also its never said much in the media but if you're on hormones it's almost akin to what they give for chemical castration. The odds of any male ever going that far to abuse women is pretty much zero. 

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Yea I don't disagree it's gone too far the other way. The problem used to be that you couldn't change gender until you'd done everything (i.e. sex change surgery, which is usually done last). Which was not really ideal either because you had to live 'as a female' for a year or more before qualifying. And it pushed people into doing the surgery, whether they really wanted to do that last step or just live outwardly as female.

To me, the defining line should be that you are on hormones. That's really the gold standard for whether you're transitioning or not. Also its never said much in the media but if you're on hormones it's almost akin to what they give for chemical castration. The odds of any male ever going that far to abuse women is pretty much zero. 

That has the ring of truth about it

[Army Guy]

15 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Who?  What’s the lobby group called?  Where are they active?

You should ask your mom, i thought she was running it for you in the basement...that should answer some of your questions...

[Army Guy]

13 hours ago, Nexii said:

T is a smaller minority within LGBT than LGBT is to the entire population. And a ton of LGBT activists aren't even LGBT themselves, it is almost like a religion to some.

So yea T really isn't represented well. The issues raised aren't ones that really matter to most trans. The amount of elite trans athletes is vanishingly small. The locker room / bathroom thing, similar... most trans aren't going to even go those places until they're comfortable and far along.

If there was a #1 issue it'd be what medical care the government does and does not provide. Varies a ton by province which pretty much means its political and not science backed. 

If the issues that are being discussed are not on the trans radar, then it should not matter that those few trans athletes either hang up their sports until a trans league can be made viable...or continue to operate in the men's league, where they originally were in the first place...instead of participating in a women sports league were they clearly have a biological advantage...taking away most elite women's sports career paths, or chances at being the top female in their field... 

For a group that is trying to be seen and heard , it's hard to have see their point when they themselves are doing the same thing depriving women of their rights and chances within their chosen career field... 

[Moonlight Graham]

8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Some of this I like.  I would rather them great digital local web stations, or create some kind of model/farm system for young journalists to get started.  We definitely need more reporting in this country and private media is simply cutting to the bone and mostly not funding real journalism.

I would like the government to get out of the news reporting business altogether.  One of the main raison d'etre of journalism, the 4th estate, is to hold the government to account.  There is a conflict of interest.  Government news should not exist in a healthy democracy.

The government can fund or provide tax breaks for Canadian media, and the criteria for funding needs to be politically neutral because what is does and doesn't fund can also be political.  Just like how church groups that were pro-life were denied Canada Summer Jobs funding by the Trudeau gov.

Quote

The brainwashing charge is overreach.  

I've never seen a progressive-leaning person agree that CBC News engages in left-leaning propaganda.  I assume that's because it agrees with their worldview so seems "normal" to them, and they have no issue keeping it to push their views.  I've also never seen a right-leaning Canadian disagree that CBC News engages in left-leaning propaganda.  This is proof in itself that it is, and therefore needs to be dismantled.

Quote

2. You have to go back pretty far to the roots of Cancon to explore the pros and cons of defunding Canadian culture.  Suffice it to say that even Mulroney wouldn't sell out our culture when he signed the GTA.  

Let the private sector produce it, the government can help fund it if the criteria is fair.

[Nexii]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

If the issues that are being discussed are not on the trans radar, then it should not matter that those few trans athletes either hang up their sports until a trans league can be made viable...or continue to operate in the men's league, where they originally were in the first place...instead of participating in a women sports league were they clearly have a biological advantage...taking away most elite women's sports career paths, or chances at being the top female in their field... 

For a group that is trying to be seen and heard , it's hard to have see their point when they themselves are doing the same thing depriving women of their rights and chances within their chosen career field... 

Yea well they have the far-left wing telling them it's okay. It's nothing new, though. There's been intersex athletes doing the same for longer

Though these issues are up to sports organizations, not trans people to handle. It's not like I have any say over what they do at all

 

[TreeBeard]

4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

You should ask your mom, i thought she was running it for you in the basement...that should answer some of your questions...

So you really have no idea…. it just feels like something real to you, but you can’t actually name it?   That’s conspiracy nonsense. 

[herbie]

19 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Who?  What’s the lobby group called?  Where are they active?

Don't need one these guys will make one up in their heads to condemn. Like FFS not even a full page of discussion and they devolve into tranny discussions like that should be the main event at the CPC convention.
Start their own party PCP the Paleo Conservative Party....

So far lots of Trudeau bashing and vague policies with no detail on how they'd be achieved. Added Sweep It Under The Rug (carbon capture) to Axe The Tax to complete their Climate policy.

[CdnFox]

20 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Who?  What’s the lobby group called?  Where are they active?

LGBT political advocacy groups in Canada

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:LGBT_political_advocacy_groups_in_Canada

 

I feel like you could have looked that and others up yourself if you were honestly interested in the truth and not being a complete sealion

[Nexii]

Yikes 69% against hormones for trans minors in all cases. Not a good look. Surgeries I actually agree with and on a side note it's odd they voted on these things together because they are very different issues. Surgeries are far more permanent than pills. On the surface it seems like a very shallow understanding of it all, which isn't surprising as a very specialized/niche thing to be informed on.

Going to be hard to back the CPC as the so-called party of freedom. With that kind of support it's going to be hard for Pierre to keep his party in line on this issue. Kind of dreading what they cook up re: abortion and other issues.

This really is the problem when the party is over-represented in the rural West. Ironically I think they'd moderate quite a bit with more Atlantic/Quebec/Toronto representation... but that might not come to pass.

[blackbird]

On 9/7/2023 at 9:08 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

I'm not sure what you think a Conservative is. It is a moot point however since the federal Conservative Party is dead federally.

Dead?  What is dead about it?  Seems quite alive.  It also has a huge membership base and receives a lot of money.  It is leading in the polls.  They have a good chance of forming government in the next election.  Until then, they don't have any power.  Perhaps that is what you mean.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Nexii said:

Yikes 69% against hormones for trans minors in all cases. Not a good look. Surgeries I actually agree with and on a side note it's odd they voted on these things together because they are very different issues. Surgeries are far more permanent than pills. On the surface it seems like a very shallow understanding of it all, which isn't surprising as a very specialized/niche thing to be informed on.

Going to be hard to back the CPC as the so-called party of freedom. With that kind of support it's going to be hard for Pierre to keep his party in line on this issue. Kind of dreading what they cook up re: abortion and other issues.

This really is the problem when the party is over-represented in the rural West. Ironically I think they'd moderate quite a bit with more Atlantic/Quebec/Toronto representation... but that might not come to pass.

Chemical castration of kids is a no go. A lot of canadians will feel that way and  mutilating children chemically is not a restriction of their freedoms.

I get this is a sensitive subject. I get why. I have zero problem with treating trans people's conditions with drugs or surgery.  But not when it cannot be undone if they're children.

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I would like the government to get out of the news reporting business altogether.

Why do you people always make it sound like the PMO and the CBC editorial room are one and the same thing? It's complete bullshit.

I think you really need to provide some kind of smoking gun here.  Email trails, documents, recordings of insiders discussing their collusion.  The old bias conspiracy shtick usually trotted out just doesn't cut it.

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Dead?  What is dead about it?  Seems quite alive.  It also has a huge membership base and receives a lot of money.  It is leading in the polls.  They have a good chance of forming government in the next election.  Until then, they don't have any power.  Perhaps that is what you mean.

The Progressive Conservative Party, the party of Sir John A. MacDonald and John Diefenbaker, was my party federally. What the CPC is is the old social credit party. According to Preston Manning, it was the party of Lincoln. 

Setting that aside, reading the results of the voting on the resolutions, while I oppose the resolutions on the transgender issue, on the whole the results were better than I had hoped. The resolution on transgender issues will no doubt be tested in Court if they are ever implemented. My MP just inched closer to winning my vote. I sent him an email to that effect and I am sure he is breathing easier knowing that.

[CdnFox]

45 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Why do you people always make it sound like the PMO and the CBC editorial room are one and the same thing?

Because when it comes to the liberals, the PMO and the CBC editorial room are one and the same thing.

Sorry kiddo - it's painfully obvious. And the CBC will go after any conservative leader provincial or federal. Look what they did to smith.

Getting rid of the CBC is the first step to trying to repair the divisions in canada. They are little more than left wing hate mongers these days

[Nexii]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Chemical castration of kids is a no go. A lot of canadians will feel that way and  mutilating children chemically is not a restriction of their freedoms.

I get this is a sensitive subject. I get why. I have zero problem with treating trans people's conditions with drugs or surgery.  But not when it cannot be undone if they're children.

The thing is, teens are neither adults nor kids as the right wing would like to see it so black and white. For example, the age of consent laws in Canada have evolved from this mindset, because honestly they were terrible. Not as terrible as many US states but anyways I digress. Teens get a lot of freedom that kids do not, like employment, driving a car, even getting married with parental consent.

I think there will be some sort of more definitive law written where teens can get hormones at 14 or so with parental consent. Probably 16 without parental consent. It's not nearly as undoable as surgery.

As for surgery, it's kind of a pointless debate because surgeons already won't do surgeries on you unless you are 18. So that's just political points scoring on something that already doesn't happen. The exception is mastectomy which can be done at 16, and I strongly disagree with WPATH on this one being special somehow. 

There are definitely big problems with the way the medical system deals with it. It is pretty much you get what you ask for, which sounds progressive but like we've seen with MAID is actually dangerous. In the end I think most people who set down the path end up much better off and happier, but that doesn't make for exciting news stories.

I'm less hopeful for much reform here in the short term. Because again both sides trying to score political points