Army Guy Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 https://www.facebook.com/reel/1179126400874601 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 23 hours ago, TreeBeard said: Denmark lives up to its obligations, and then some, according to a GOP senator who is on the NATO committee and yet Trump has a boner to invade. You just make stuff up to suit your own boner for Trump. No it has not, Denmark has let the US take over the defense of Greenland, and Greenland has not put a penny into it's own defense....Trump's action within NATO has just recently sparked interest in NATO's Artic defenses....NATO as a whole has taken off from it's military reasonability's for decades now... The threat never left... Canada has been one of the worst NATO players there was...our Nation signed a agreement to meet 2 %, Justin got off the plane here in Canada and told the world he had no intention of keeping his word....And today we are where we are because of those decisions not to invest in our military, not to engage meaningfully on the inter national stage, and then we cry when we have to sit at the kiddies table....Our allieds think we can not be trusted, or reliable, or have anything worth to contribute... So don't sit there and tell me i have a boner for trump....i did not create any of this, YOU just can not handle the truth about how the world see us as a nation....if we had been a reliable allied do you really think Trump would be treated us this way...Speaking of allieds what do you think they are going to do when Trump decides to take Greenland....and everyone likes Greenland....and if nothing happens on the world stage after that, what makes you think he is going to stop....why not grab Canada as well...and who is going to step up and defend us.....The same people that stood up for Greenland... I have no love for trump. But don't for one second think he did any of this we did this to ourselves... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 22 hours ago, eyeball said: David Frum also famously said; "If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy." Yes and we all pray at the church of the devil....we sacrifice young liberals to pay for our sins....Is that the myth your projecting now....i mean you NDP people fell for all that bogus stuff last election vote liberal of the conservatives will get in...the world will come to an end....number of the beast all that voodoo crap , meanwhile your party collapse....and is no longer relevant...but is starting to make a come back, that must worry the liberals all those votes.... Sh!t maybe you guys can help wind bag May....might get better results... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
TreeBeard Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 57 minutes ago, Army Guy said: No it has not, Denmark has let the US take over the defense of Greenland, Talk to the senator. He says invasion talk is “stupid”. Quote
Army Guy Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 1 minute ago, TreeBeard said: Talk to the senator. He says invasion talk is “stupid”. It's all stupid, but then again the president of the US is talking about it...So stupid or not, everyone is listening....And nobody knows if he is serious or not, and nobody has a clue of what to do....even NATO is saying they are not taking it to seriously...Other than condemnation what can they do....what do you think Canada will do....what ever it is told to.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: Yes and we all pray at the church of the devil....we sacrifice young liberals to pay for our sins....Is that the myth your projecting now....i mean you NDP people fell for all that bogus stuff last election vote liberal of the conservatives will get in...the world will come to an end....number of the beast all that voodoo crap Not me. I stuck to my guns and voted for the same NDP whose won the riding 4 times now. If I, and enough others hereabouts, had voted for the Conservatives it could have resulted in the Liberals winning the riding and be that much closer to a majority federally. You're welcome. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Zeitgeist Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 (edited) Okay so back to the defence conversation, if it’s looking like Saab is saying we need to by around 77 aircraft to secure Canadian manufacturing of a military aircraft industry, I think we should take it, but there’s a big caveat: Lets sell the majority of these planes to Ukraine (wants 100) and other allied countries, keep what’s left for our domestic defence (which means total independence from Washington or any other powers for our domestic defence) AND buy around between 50 and 99 F-35’s (back end loading with the majority of purchases coming later based on geopolitical need), which can be used for NORAD, NATO missions, and other domestic defence. Basically we use the Gripen as the guarantor of sovereign defence and as the backbone of our export military aircraft industry but hedge our bets by keeping a significant complement of F-35’s with potential expansion based on relations with Washington and geopolitical/NATO requirements. No new F-35 purchases beyond the current 20 until sectoral tariffs on steel, aluminum, and autos are significantly reduced AND CUSMA is renegotiated. Basically if Trump tries to continue to take our resource and manufacturing (and sovereignty), no new defence procurements from the U.S.. On the China trade and EV tariff front, I think Carney should come across with reducing tariffs on all EV’s that are made partially in Canada as part of JOINT VENTURES with China. This essentially gives China credibility in the Canadian domestic market by contributing to Canadian job growth and manufacturing capacity. The trick is to keep the retail prices within reasonable proximity to the retail prices of other domestically produced Canadian autos, but only to do this if China significantly reduces tariffs on Canadian canola, potash, etc. Edited January 14 by Zeitgeist 1 Quote
I am Groot Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 On 1/12/2026 at 9:48 PM, eyeball said: Yeah, Canadian conservatives have to abandon conservatism to get anywhere. LMAO! I don't think you know many American conservatives. You know the populists in the Republican party, but they are not conservative. 1 Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
I am Groot Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 (edited) Canada is going to buy new helicopters. It will take about 2-3 years to deliver them once ordered. We're planning on having them all in place in about 12 years. Consider that for a moment. We will spend about 8-9 years on the PROCESS before ordering them. Boy, Carney's new procurement system is lightning fast! Government moving faster than we've eer seen it! https://ottawacitizen.com/public-service/defence-watch/new-canadian-forces-helicopters Edited January 14 by I am Groot 1 Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
eyeball Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 34 minutes ago, I am Groot said: I don't think you know many American conservatives. You know the populists in the Republican party, but they are not conservative. They've all been a mess for decades now. 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 14 Report Posted January 14 4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: ...No new F-35 purchases beyond the current 20 until sectoral tariffs on steel, aluminum, and autos are significantly reduced AND CUSMA is renegotiated. Basically if Trump tries to continue to take our resource and manufacturing (and sovereignty), no new defence procurements from the U.S.. It's not that simple....Saab Grippen strike fighters use a lot of US sourced content from American defense contractors (GE, L3 Harris, Honeywell, Collins Aerospace, etc.), so much so that sales are subject to ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) and US export controls. Canada is not selling any new Grippens to Ukraine without US approval. Canada would continue to depend on many other US contractors for spares, ordnance, software/firmware, and depot logistics, for many other weapons systems, aircraft, naval assets, etc. Canada is also a Tier 3 supplier to the F-35 JSF program. 1 1 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Zeitgeist Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 5 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: It's not that simple....Saab Grippen strike fighters use a lot of US sourced content from American defense contractors (GE, L3 Harris, Honeywell, Collins Aerospace, etc.), so much so that sales are subject to ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) and US export controls. Canada is not selling any new Grippens to Ukraine without US approval. Canada would continue to depend on many other US contractors for spares, ordnance, software/firmware, and depot logistics, for many other weapons systems, aircraft, naval assets, etc. Canada is also a Tier 3 supplier to the F-35 JSF program. Unfortunately Canada has to pay a hefty price to do more production at home and leverage “Gina” as a counterweight to the new US imperialism. That’s I’m sure what Xi is trying to sell Carney on during this trade mission. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: Unfortunately Canada has to pay a hefty price to do more production at home and leverage “Gina” as a counterweight to the new US imperialism. That’s I’m sure what Xi is trying to sell Carney on during this trade mission. Fine for politics, but not game changing economic reality. Canada will continue to be reliant on majority export to the evil Americans for the foreseeable future, if only because existing trade infrastructure is set up to do so. The tariffs are not likely to survive after Trump, and talking about Canada First diversification is easier said than done...same for the Americans needing Canadian energy, softwood lumber, etc.) I saw a CBC story about polling Canadians on what the future mix should be for "jets" in the way of F-35 or Gripens, and the results varied widely, even by province. Must be the potential jobs employment factor, not military/mission requirements, as they seem to be a secondary consideration. Canada last built fighter aircraft in numbers under license from Northrop (Canadair CF-5/CF-116) over 50 years ago....retired by 1995. Good luck.... 1 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
I am Groot Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 8 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: I saw a CBC story about polling Canadians on what the future mix should be for "jets" in the way of F-35 or Gripens, and the results varied widely, even by province. Must be the potential jobs employment factor, not military/mission requirements, as they seem to be a secondary consideration. The defence procurement budget has always been about regional economic diversification and the graft that directs work to government-friendly companies. The actual performance and value of the item in question, and the needs of the military have always been secondary or even tertiary to that. Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
Zeitgeist Posted January 16 Report Posted January 16 (edited) 23 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Fine for politics, but not game changing economic reality. Canada will continue to be reliant on majority export to the evil Americans for the foreseeable future, if only because existing trade infrastructure is set up to do so. The tariffs are not likely to survive after Trump, and talking about Canada First diversification is easier said than done...same for the Americans needing Canadian energy, softwood lumber, etc.) I saw a CBC story about polling Canadians on what the future mix should be for "jets" in the way of F-35 or Gripens, and the results varied widely, even by province. Must be the potential jobs employment factor, not military/mission requirements, as they seem to be a secondary consideration. Canada last built fighter aircraft in numbers under license from Northrop (Canadair CF-5/CF-116) over 50 years ago....retired by 1995. Good luck.... I wouldn’t underestimate the country’s ability to rally and focus right now. When there’s a large mandate for a policy or project in Canada, resources and manpower are mobilized pretty effectively. There are many historic examples of this. I agree that Canada should only invest in infrastructure and trade relationships that benefit the country long term whether or not Trumpism lasts or most of the previous US trade and geopolitical policy with Canada is restored. Canada shouldn’t be so reliant on one country that doesn’t rely on Canada in equal measure. The goal seems to be trade diversification away from the U.S. of 50% of current exports to the U.S.. Canada must lean on multilateralism both for credibility and as leverage against U.S. economic and political dominance. China plays an important role but so does most of the Pacific Rim, Europe, and developing countries. No country wants to be the next Greenland and have their country taken over Venezuela style. The consensus in Europe is if the U.S. takes over Greenland, the U.S. removes itself from NATO. There would be a massive shift away from aggressive powers towards a defensive alliance that collectively would be powerful and would grow over time, out of necessity. That’s the purpose of Carney’s visits to China, Indonesia, etc.: Don’t put all your eggs in one basket. The problem with America becoming more aggressive and blatantly kleptocratic is that it will become more isolated and pariah-like, not overnight, but over time, if this trajectory is maintained. In the meantime, other countries will do what’s needed to flourish and become more resilient. One day it may dawn on the U.S., after all the arrogant blather about how little they care about or need Canada, that the resources they had the same access to in CUSMA as Canadians are going to places other than the U.S. in increasing quantities, including to Gina. The new pipelines are east-west and to the three Canadian coasts. Canadians have essentially found alternative products to some of the big U.S. exports like Bourbon. They’re travelling more to Central and South America and Europe and less to Florida or Arizona. Out of necessity the Canadian auto market becomes more Canadian and European and even Chinese. American trade remains important, but less so, and when the Americans suddenly want the materials and energy, they may find less of it available from Canada. Importantly for Canada, when the U.S. threatens to impose tariffs or cut Canada out of its market, the response will look a lot more like a shrug than it does today, because our economy will be less US dependent and we’ll have endured the worst of the economic impacts. We didn’t ask for any of this, but given no choice but to protect our industries, workers, and self-determination, we’ll respond as needed and so will the rest of the world. China basically said this to Carney and rolled out the red carpet in a very conspicuous way. Edited January 16 by Zeitgeist Quote
BeaverFever Posted January 16 Author Report Posted January 16 On 1/12/2026 at 7:07 PM, Army Guy said: Bullshit...I'll give you a link that lays out every war or skirmish the US has had, and they were not all losses...OH Yes lets not forget Vietnam.... ... You can win every battle and still lose the war…for example Vietnam On 1/12/2026 at 7:07 PM, Army Guy said: Iraq has new leadership, and a democratically elected government which is a win, Except that the goal was regime change to a US puppet in the span of a few weeks or months with minimal casualties and cost…not 10 years with nearly 40,000 US servicemen killed or wounded and a new regime that is a Shiite vassal of Iran. FAIL Not to mention the US public and congress only supported the war because they believed the Bush Administration’s lies and fabricated evidence that Saddam was working with Al Qaeda and had WMD capable of striking US soil. Not to mention the war was far from US shores so they didn’t care much anyway, war is something fun for most Americans to watch on TV. A clearly unjustified and unprovoked war of aggression against America’s closest friend and ally by the most divisive and unpopular president in history is not going to be supported or just met with the usual protests, especially when it disrupts life for everyday Americans. I think enough Canadians and sympathetic Americans would resist amd that they would figure out the logistics of medical etc,and have a pan-north American network in the fictional event the US invaded Canada You fly a drone, you make a homemade bomb and bury it somewhere. Realistically though the US won’t invade Canada, they would simply covertly engineer the election of a sympathetic Conservative puppet elected and rule by proxy while maintaining all the superficial symbols of a sovereign country. Quote
Army Guy Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 3 hours ago, BeaverFever said: You can win every battle and still lose the war…for example Vietnam Except that the goal was regime change to a US puppet in the span of a few weeks or months with minimal casualties and cost…not 10 years with nearly 40,000 US servicemen killed or wounded and a new regime that is a Shiite vassal of Iran. FAIL Not to mention the US public and congress only supported the war because they believed the Bush Administration’s lies and fabricated evidence that Saddam was working with Al Qaeda and had WMD capable of striking US soil. Not to mention the war was far from US shores so they didn’t care much anyway, war is something fun for most Americans to watch on TV. A clearly unjustified and unprovoked war of aggression against America’s closest friend and ally by the most divisive and unpopular president in history is not going to be supported or just met with the usual protests, especially when it disrupts life for everyday Americans. I think enough Canadians and sympathetic Americans would resist amd that they would figure out the logistics of medical etc,and have a pan-north American network in the fictional event the US invaded Canada You fly a drone, you make a homemade bomb and bury it somewhere. Realistically though the US won’t invade Canada, they would simply covertly engineer the election of a sympathetic Conservative puppet elected and rule by proxy while maintaining all the superficial symbols of a sovereign country. I get that.......But that was not your point , the US has some success in insurgency warfare... Like i said, once American soldiers start coming home in bags ,let alone Canadian terrorist killing soft American targets , don't expect your American support to last, don't expect to much sympathy from across the border....once you lose that support that's when you've lost the fight... My first tour in Afghanistan i was full of pi$$ in vinegar, want to help regular Afghans....volunteered for everything....by the end of that first tour, i had a severe hate on for the Taliban and all the other terrorist organization in Afghanistan and would not think twice about ending one of them....by my third tour i was not there to help afghanis, but to bring back as many Canadians as i possible could...i kept volunteering to go back because my comrades where going....My wife gave me an ultimatum...I could go on my forth tour....but she would not be there when i got back home....i checked myself into the hospital and was diagnosed with sever PTSD...And i was a trained soldier, with previous combat experience.... Everyone i knew quickly pointed out how much my character changed...i was not the same person as i once was...I'd turned into an A$$hat....a drunken a$$hat .... And i'm not saying i'm better than any other man or women out there....but you are talking about regular Canadians with no training or experience. I can't even fathom them being able to cope just the survival mode, let alone combat or it's conditions... Trump has already said he prefers liberal governments...Not even sure what he thinks any more....and your right realistically he would not have to invade...he could use Economical pressure...or like you said put someone he could trust in power...and what real sovereignty do we really have right now....hard to have sovereignty when you don't have the means to protect it... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22 Report Posted January 22 On 1/15/2026 at 11:07 PM, Zeitgeist said: ...We didn’t ask for any of this, but given no choice but to protect our industries, workers, and self-determination, we’ll respond as needed and so will the rest of the world. China basically said this to Carney and rolled out the red carpet in a very conspicuous way. This has been Canada's historical reality for several generations, long before Trump. I am old enough to remember a far more independent Canada (going back to PM Lester Pearson), distinct foreign policy, cultural divergence, and closer Commonwealth ties. Canada's U.S. dependencies have increased over time because of choices Canada has made. This can be reversed of course, but not just as knee-jerk reactions to American administrations that will come and go. Trump will have done Canada a huge favour if his policies spur a true Canada First mentality and actions. 3 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Army Guy Posted January 22 Report Posted January 22 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
BeaverFever Posted January 23 Author Report Posted January 23 On 1/16/2026 at 10:26 PM, Army Guy said: but you are talking about regular Canadians with no training or experience. I can't even fathom them being able to cope just the survival mode, let alone combat or it's conditions... Same was said of Ukrainians. Nobody thought they would dare to stand up to Russia. Like Canada they barely had a military and hadn’t seen a real war in genertions…simce ww2 actually. On 1/16/2026 at 10:26 PM, Army Guy said: Trump has already said he prefers liberal governments. Everyone knows that’s just more of his random lies and bullshit gibberish. He said that ONCE in a response to a reporter who was accurately pointing out that his pressure tactics were backfiring and getting Liberals elected as a backlash. And because he can’t admit his mistakes he lies and says he did it on purpose, which makes zero sense. His own national security strategy calls for undermining liberal governments in Europe and supporting far right fringe parties. 1 Quote
I am Groot Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 2 hours ago, BeaverFever said: Same was said of Ukrainians. Nobody thought they would dare to stand up to Russia. Like Canada they barely had a military and hadn’t seen a real war in genertions…simce ww2 actually. The Ukrainians had been preparing to stand up to Russia for years, and had a massive and well-equipped military compared to Canada. Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
CdnFox Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 1 minute ago, I am Groot said: The Ukrainians had been preparing to stand up to Russia for years, and had a massive and well-equipped military compared to Canada. That's actually not accurate. Grift and corruption had taken most of their assets and money. It was widely believed by almost all experts everywhere around the world that they would fall within 3 days to a week given their military strength. They got lucky a couple times and the Russians got sloppy and it paid off. But it wasn't because they had a massive military and it was not well equipped Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
I am Groot Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 (edited) 11 hours ago, CdnFox said: That's actually not accurate. Grift and corruption had taken most of their assets and money. It was widely believed by almost all experts everywhere around the world that they would fall within 3 days to a week given their military strength. I was making a comparison with Canada. At the start of the war, Ukraine's military, including the national guard, was about 300k. Canada's is currently stated as about 60k, but is actually closer to 50k. Ukraine had a lot of reservists. It had mobilized between 700k-800k people by 2023. Canada has about 30k reservists. And the US military is, of course, much more powerful than the Russian military was. Yes, everyone assumed the mighty Red Army would overrun them quickly, before they had a chance to activate reserves. But the mighty Red Army was run by incompetents appointed due to their loyalty to Putin, and its equipment was often not working or obsolete due to corruption and neglect. Edited January 23 by I am Groot Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
CdnFox Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 6 hours ago, I am Groot said: I was making a comparison with Canada. At the start of the war, Ukraine's military, including the national guard, was about 300k. Canada's is currently stated as about 60k, but is actually closer to 50k. Ukraine had a lot of reservists. It had mobilized between 700k-800k people by 2023. Canada has about 30k reservists. And the US military is, of course, much more powerful than the Russian military was. Yes, everyone assumed the mighty Red Army would overrun them quickly, before they had a chance to activate reserves. But the mighty Red Army was run by incompetents appointed due to their loyalty to Putin, and its equipment was often not working or obsolete due to corruption and neglect. Fair enough, there's no doubt if you're comparing the two that Ukraine had a lot more people But good news! We are soon about to deputize 300,000 civil service workers who've never even held a gun! That should solve everything Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Venandi Posted January 24 Report Posted January 24 (edited) Clearly a US story but might be of interest to Canadians in general and particularly Canadian veterans. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/navy-under-secretary-hung-cao-says-personnel-discharged-over-vaccine-mandate-were-failed IMO it should be more substantial than just an apology and it appears it might be headed in that direction. In any case, it should serve as a real deterrent to this sort of thing happening again the next time people scare themselves, stampede, and feel entitled to trample everything in their path. I remember (and won't soon forget) members of that thundering herd opining that those released under the mandate should be forced to forfeit their pension (if entitled to one on release). Remember those days? Excellent gym motivation for me just thinking about it... usually I consciously try not to. So.... I'd say that those wishing to return to service should be re-enrolled (if they chose and are medically fit) with full backpay and credit for the service time that was stolen. Same deal for those who opted for voluntary release in order to avoid the lasting stigma of a disciplinary one. That payout should be tax free... call it a recruiting bonus. There's an additional bonus too, If this doesn't hurt them financially and embarrass them personally, the eyeholes and Herbs of the world will do it again the very next they frighten themselves. Edited January 24 by Venandi 1 Quote
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