Zeitgeist Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 (edited) 7 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: You exaggerate, of course. Thinking we spend as much on these programs as 2 aircraft carriers, nuclear subs and a nuclear weapons program is silly. It makes me think you’re not a serious interlocutor. I’m very serious. Trudeau expanded the size of government by more than 40% and borrowed billions to implement programs of questionable purpose and effectiveness. Even the daycare scheme has been somewhat of a flop. The money pit of Indigenous Affairs has grown catastrophically in the last decade. Don’t forget the billions spent on Ukraine, and it is tens of billions. Edited January 8 by Zeitgeist Quote
TreeBeard Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: I’m very serious. Trudeau expanded the size of government by more than 40% and borrowed billions to implement programs of questionable purpose and effectiveness. Even the daycare scheme has been somewhat of a flop. The money pit of Indigenous Affairs has grown catastrophically in the last decade. Hundreds of billions. So unserious. 😂 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Hundreds of billions. So unserious. 😂 On Ukraine and Indigenous Stuff Alone: Canada has provided nearly CAD $22 billion (~USD $16 billion+) in multifaceted assistance to Ukraine since February 2022, covering: Direct financial support Military assistance Humanitarian aid Reconstruction, development, and stabilization support This figure is confirmed in official Government of Canada announcements marking Canada as one of Ukraine’s largest bilateral contributors in this conflict. On Indigenous Stuff: One analytical estimate noted that annual Indigenous-related spending had tripled over the decade — from around $10 billion in 2014 to about $32 billion in 2025. 1 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 (edited) From fiscal 2015-16 to 2022-23, federal program spending increased from about $264 billion to about $439 billion (nominal). That’s an increase of ~66% over ~7–8 years. Growth in federal workforce (2014→2024): The number of federal public servants (core federal public service) has grown significantly over the past decade. A credible estimate finds the core workforce increased by about 30% between roughly 2014 and 2024 — from around 283,000 to about 368,000 employees. Growth rates from multiple analyses: Another analysis notes that over roughly a decade (2013–2023), the federal public service expanded by about 36% — adding over 110,000 positions. In relative terms, during the same period Canada’s population grew ~21%, suggesting that federal employment grew faster than population growth. 👉 Summary: 📌 Federal public service employment increased by ~30–36% over the past decade. 📌 That growth outpaced population growth (~21%). Edited January 8 by Zeitgeist Quote
Zeitgeist Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 (edited) In short, the federal government of Canada has increased the size of government and program spending significantly by hundreds of billions of dollars over the past decade. Oh and what did we get for all that spending and mass immigration? Very Slow Growth Over the Decade Canada’s real GDP per capita grew only about 1.1 % in total from 2014 to 2024 — meaning average output per person barely advanced over ten years. This is one of the weakest performances among advanced economies (OECD). Edited January 8 by Zeitgeist Quote
Legato Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 50 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: You exaggerate, of course. Thinking we spend as much on these programs as 2 aircraft carriers, nuclear subs and a nuclear weapons program is silly. It makes me think you’re not a serious interlocutor. Exaggerate or not, cutting out frivolous spending would be a start. Seems you are not serious and willing to ignore all the non essential spending that happened over the last ten years. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 What’s fascinating about Canada’s current precarious position is that it was entirely preventable. Canada was leading the G7 in growth and had one of the lowest debt to GDP ratios in the OECD under Harper. Our dollar became stronger than the U.S. dollar and we largely avoided the 2008 economic crisis. Trudeau squandered that position of strength and has left the country in a concerning debt situation at a time when we really needed to call on any available reserves. That’s the big lesson that the public needs to learn to prevent future crises: Don’t overspend, leave yourself a surplus for rainy day emergencies, keep your power dry. Briefly in the 1990’s the Liberals learned and touted that message, but it’s actually a conservative message. Canada needs to keep it simple and focus on the essentials: Spend only on what will expand the economy, promote the living standards, values, and culture of the nation state, provide for its defence, reign in program spending to what’s most important for all Canadians. Stay out of the business of creating government programs to replace the spending choices Canadians can make for themselves by keeping more of their hard-earned money. Quote
Army Guy Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 3 hours ago, TreeBeard said: You are in favour of unilateral military strikes on NATO allies if you think Canada should stay an ally of USA. It’s obvious where we are leaning. The USA simply cannot be trusted. Europe are better allies. Where did i say that ? your forgetting Canada can not survive without the US , our economy is dependent on the US, it will take years before we can move away for the US...we are dependent on the US for our own security, we are dependent on the US to move our military around...we are dependent on the US for a good portion of our defense equipment and munitions...We as a nation chose to be all of that, because we are to Fing lazy to do something else....we where suppose to devest from China when they had the Michaels...did we, nope, less than 10 years later our PM is back in China talking trade...making us either stupid or just not that smart............it would take decades to reverse all of that.... Europe is not a better allied....all of Europe would not even make up half of what the US is already providing... And in less than 3 years trump will be gone...then what...you and many Canadians have swallowed to much anti trump kool aid...thinking we are under threat...that the US can't be trusted....and yet we are still part of NATO, and NORAD working side by side with US military pers....If trump wanted Canada he could have it under 24 hours, and you and i would be learning the American anthem... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
CdnFox Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 5 hours ago, Army Guy said: We have had this conversation before, Well over 80 % of our weapon systems are American...that needs American support or American munitions, or spare parts.....If we were to pursue your thought process here we would have to spend hundreds of bils replacing all that equipment...are you ready to do that ? We can start with this. And as we buy new gear we can buy from somebody other than the Americans or god help us all start making our own. We may not be able to get rid of everything American made tomorrow but we can start by not buying any more American made militray goods. You don't buy your military equipment from people who are threatening to take you over. You just don't do that I don't know how to be more clear. It would be like buying your locks from a known burglar, doesn't matter how good the locks are it's a bad idea Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Army Guy Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Our military aircraft should be completely independent of any foreign country’s control, NATO or otherwise, especially now that NATO could become a shambles very soon if the U.S. strong-arms an occupation of a NATO country. At the end of WW2 Canada had the 4th largest military and produced a significant amount of aircraft and armaments for the Allied Forces. Canada should’ve been one of the permanent members of the Security Council and had a veto at the UN, not France. Canadians gullibly relinquished that hard power to our allies. Pierre Trudeau prevented Canada from keeping nuclear missiles on Canadian soil, a very stupid move. Canada should have state of the art leading drone tech, nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers (we had two in WW2), and nuclear missiles. We once had the fastest aircraft in the world, which Diefenbaker foolishly scrapped to placate the Yanks. We were the third country to put a satellite in space. Canada cannot have true independence and independent foreign (and domestic) policy without independent hard power. Otherwise, let’s end this charade and become part of the U.S.. At least we would have US citizenship. With independent hard power and more economic independence we could negotiate an economic union of two countries or be more independent of the U.S. than we already are. Our current economic and military dependence makes us very vulnerable to U.S. takeover. The more independent power we have, the more leverage we have in any trade negotiations, potential economic union of the two countries, or even an eventual integration into the U.S.: i.e. There’s a big difference between 10 states and three territories with a Scotland-like bilingual parliament in Ottawa for Canadian affairs versus becoming 51st state or worse, a Puerto Rico-style protectorate. One would think that the U.S. Constitution prevents invasion of democratic countries and imposing control against the democratic wishes of the people, but the U.S. is behaving in worrisome might-is-right ways and seems to be promoting “spheres of influence” where China gets Taiwan, Russia gets Ukraine, and the U.S. gets __________. Only serious nuclear deterrence and the ability to raise the drawbridge economically can ensure self-determination if the U.S. becomes a failed democracy and seeks territorial expansion without the democratic agreement of targeted countries. Your spending way to much time looking at the past, that is not the Canada we have today....Todays Canadians don't care about the state of our military....or we would not be in this situation, Canadians don't care about anything outside their bubble...Sure they talk about all of it, but do something about is non sense... Canada can not afford to have all those nice to have military toys...shit we can barely afford the 80 main battle tanks we have now...once again Canadians don't care , nor are they willing to take any action, to improve anything in this country... Nobody cares about the nation and it's current state, they only ones protesting are the Palestinians...very telling...we have given all of that up for social programs... We are who we are today because Canadians want it that way, or they don't care what way we have...as long as the hockey games are on, beer store is open, pogey checks keep flowing nobody cares...those that do are already working to save the country, but they are vastly out numbered... I mean 4 terms of liberal government says it all....just a quick glance at any governmental department and all you see is smoke....from all the dumpster fires...everything is a mess...Which is why i don't think the US wants all of those problems...why would they....We Canadians are destroying our country all by ourselfs....US just has to sit back and watch...and pick it up the whole country for a two hockey cards, and the Stanley cup... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 15 minutes ago, CdnFox said: We can start with this. And as we buy new gear we can buy from somebody other than the Americans or god help us all start making our own. We may not be able to get rid of everything American made tomorrow but we can start by not buying any more American made militray goods. You don't buy your military equipment from people who are threatening to take you over. You just don't do that I don't know how to be more clear. It would be like buying your locks from a known burglar, doesn't matter how good the locks are it's a bad idea Great that sounds good, but if you want to buy euro there is a a huge waiting line that goes on forever, and in most cases well into the 2030...and we can't wait that longs... Words ...and rhetoric that's all trumps words were meant to be...that all there are.....If the US wanted to destroy our nation be it economical or militarily it would happen over night.....and yet no sign of doing that is there.... and it is a moot point anyways if the US wanted Canada it would not matter what equipment you purchased...So it really does not matter...in less than 3 years trump will be gone, diplomatic relations will improve , and Canadians can come up from under their beds....The US is not the enemy...despite what Carney OR YOU say.... Our Nation is tied to the US economy....most of our trade goes to the US, and we import a huge chunk from the US.......your not going to stop that over night it will take decades....Carney has almost been in a year, and he has not done much in diversifying our economy or our defense.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Zeitgeist Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Your spending way to much time looking at the past, that is not the Canada we have today....Todays Canadians don't care about the state of our military....or we would not be in this situation, Canadians don't care about anything outside their bubble...Sure they talk about all of it, but do something about is non sense... Canada can not afford to have all those nice to have military toys...shit we can barely afford the 80 main battle tanks we have now...once again Canadians don't care , nor are they willing to take any action, to improve anything in this country... Nobody cares about the nation and it's current state, they only ones protesting are the Palestinians...very telling...we have given all of that up for social programs... We are who we are today because Canadians want it that way, or they don't care what way we have...as long as the hockey games are on, beer store is open, pogey checks keep flowing nobody cares...those that do are already working to save the country, but they are vastly out numbered... I mean 4 terms of liberal government says it all....just a quick glance at any governmental department and all you see is smoke....from all the dumpster fires...everything is a mess...Which is why i don't think the US wants all of those problems...why would they....We Canadians are destroying our country all by ourselfs....US just has to sit back and watch...and pick it up the whole country for a two hockey cards, and the Stanley cup... I know. I’ve thought for some time now that Canada is run by people who are literally destroying the country. The cost of housing, resource extraction, and raising kids is so high because we regulate and tax to pay for government programs that essentially reinforce the anti-Canadian message that we’re settler-colonial capitalist pigs causing global warming that’s going to destroy the planet. Our tax dollars fund the CBC and media that tells us this every day. That’s not what a healthy government does, but Canadians elected these reckless overspending woke-green ideologues. Because we can’t afford to have kids and the government tells us we’re too gender normative and hetero, the only way we’re replacing ourselves is through immigration, further erasing our culture and way of life. Actually many immigrants haven’t drunk the woke Kool Aid They still have kids naturally and act like their biological genders. Some immigration is necessary. We’re screwing up our own traditions quite effectively without the help of immigrants. We have to seriously change course and get focused on what we must protect or we might be better off letting the U.S. flags go up and getting paid in U.S. dollars. The Americans aren’t denigrating their country nearly as much as we denigrate ours, even though we’ve had a more peaceful and harmonious society than the U.S. historically. I suspect that if we started really asserting what makes Canada strong and took more pride in our history and way of life, the Americans would be less interested in hassling Canada and Canadians would have more reasons to trust America, but we have to get the essentials right, including on defence or we won’t be taken seriously. We’re certainly more vulnerable if we can’t defend ourselves. Edited January 8 by Zeitgeist Quote
CdnFox Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 1 minute ago, Army Guy said: Great that sounds good, but if you want to buy euro there is a a huge waiting line that goes on forever, and in most cases well into the 2030...and we can't wait that longs... It's unfortunate that we've put ourselves in this position. But it is what it is. If the gripen won't do then we wait i guess. Sucks but you don't do the WRONG thing just because you can do it faster. 3 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Words ...and rhetoric that's all trumps words were meant to be...that all there are.....If the US wanted to destroy our nation be it economical or militarily it would happen over night.....and yet no sign of doing that is there.... There's a great deal of sign of them doing that. And trump has been clear that he's quite prepared to use economic and even military force to take the territory he wants. It isn't just rhetoric, ask Venezuela. And he's threatening other countries as well and there's a very real chance it'll go for it. One of the best ways to put pressure on him with regards to that is to stop buying their military equipment and start developing closer ties with Europe. Already we're seeing Europe begin to band together to shut trump down on talking about Greenland. If republicans other than trump begin to realize that America is about to become isolated and less relevant they will pressure trump to back off. You do not buy from people who are threatening your country. Again that's as simple as it gets and there's no getting around that. You can't blow off what the leader of another country is saying about your country has simply rhetoric 7 minutes ago, Army Guy said: and it is a moot point anyways if the US wanted Canada it would not matter what equipment you purchased It don't matter to them that we purchased from someone else and we don't consider them an ally. There are a lot of Americans including a lot of American Military that will not be excited about that. And it's the strongest health statement saying we're not interested in working with you cooperatively in any more of the conflicts you pick around the world. It also leads to better developments with European equipment. The more we buy from them the more it's worth it for them to expand their development process. And we may never win a war with America, but if it's painful enough to beat us that's all we need to deter them. Any war with us means it's happening in their backyards and in their homes and if we're not dependent on them for gear that's a pretty big risk even if they win in the end. 8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I suspect that if we started really asserting what makes Canada strong and took more pride in our history and way of life, the Americans would be less interested in hassling Canada and Canadians would have more reasons to trust Americans. Well the first part would certainly be true. The stronger we are, both militarily and economically by the way, The more Americans would tend to respect us and the less they would be interested in picking a fight. Let's face it, in a straight up fight the average man can kill a cat and certainly would but no man is excited about the idea of getting into a fight with a determined cat. Even if you win you're going to get scratched to crap and it's going to hurt like 10 hells and that's enough to deter people Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Army Guy Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 18 hours ago, CdnFox said: It's unfortunate that we've put ourselves in this position. But it is what it is. If the gripen won't do then we wait i guess. Sucks but you don't do the WRONG thing just because you can do it faster. There's a great deal of sign of them doing that. And trump has been clear that he's quite prepared to use economic and even military force to take the territory he wants. It isn't just rhetoric, ask Venezuela. And he's threatening other countries as well and there's a very real chance it'll go for it. One of the best ways to put pressure on him with regards to that is to stop buying their military equipment and start developing closer ties with Europe. Already we're seeing Europe begin to band together to shut trump down on talking about Greenland. If republicans other than trump begin to realize that America is about to become isolated and less relevant they will pressure trump to back off. You do not buy from people who are threatening your country. Again that's as simple as it gets and there's no getting around that. You can't blow off what the leader of another country is saying about your country has simply rhetoric It don't matter to them that we purchased from someone else and we don't consider them an ally. There are a lot of Americans including a lot of American Military that will not be excited about that. And it's the strongest health statement saying we're not interested in working with you cooperatively in any more of the conflicts you pick around the world. It also leads to better developments with European equipment. The more we buy from them the more it's worth it for them to expand their development process. And we may never win a war with America, but if it's painful enough to beat us that's all we need to deter them. Any war with us means it's happening in their backyards and in their homes and if we're not dependent on them for gear that's a pretty big risk even if they win in the end. Well the first part would certainly be true. The stronger we are, both militarily and economically by the way, The more Americans would tend to respect us and the less they would be interested in picking a fight. Let's face it, in a straight up fight the average man can kill a cat and certainly would but no man is excited about the idea of getting into a fight with a determined cat. Even if you win you're going to get scratched to crap and it's going to hurt like 10 hells and that's enough to deter people Thats all it is rhetoric...US citizens won't allow that to happen...Trump is positioning America for the trade war....to get his way...And our situation is not the same as Venezuela, we are not a major source of drugs. Dump the F-35 deal and we will have to wait and see what it cost Canada in the long run... if you take his words serious he has already commented on what actions he will take if we DON"T buy F-35..... That is great that Europe is making noise, but if he is determined nothing they say will deter him....Trump already has a bill in front of his government to leave NATO....so pissing them off is just back ground noise... And you can't take everything he says as gospel either, he says a lot of things that need further translation... It does matter who we purchase military equipment from....quality, logistics, standardization, and a lot more have to be taken into account... Your very confident that conflict will last more than 24 hours...it might be a little more than Venezuela...but not much more...and it will not be in there back yards but rather ours...and it is not IF they win it, thats not the question...it is at what time they will do it in... In this case our cat is declawed and 20 years old, with no teeth....Not sure what your expecting our military to fight with...or that they will fight until the last man.....It will be like a midget fighting the Rock Johnston, yes there is going to be a fight, but it is going to be short....A full 1/3 of our Army Equipment is in Latvia....does not leave much in Canada to defend over 9,984,670 km 2....That's roughly one soldier per 322 sq km...SO i personally don't see the US getting beat up in any scenario at least not enough to second guess the operation....And I'm not trying to be a defeatist here, Canada knew all of this going in and has done nothing to change it...it is what we Canadians wanted....we need to own that and take some action now , and not wait until later, or embrace being an American and sing their national anthem...the outcome is already been decided once the President gives the green light to attack...All of which is never going to happen.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
CdnFox Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Thats all it is rhetoric...US citizens won't allow that to happen...T I'm not convinced that's true and you cannot know that it's true. But even if it is true the denying the US the purchase of their military equipment and moving to someone else is still the best response. Children always push their boundaries until they get a smack and told that they've gone too far. And yeah we'll probably suffer a little bit but you got to do that with a bully. If a bully's picking on you you hit back as hard as you can. You might lose the fight but at the end of the day the bully knows that there's a price with messing with you and the vast majority of bullies will back off after that. We've seen that with trump more than once now And again I hear what you're saying about you feeling that the F-35 is the best choice but we cannot be buying our gear from America right now. So what's the next best choice? Cuz that's what we're going to probably have to do Like I said it is very unfortunate we're in the position we're in. Weak militarily and weak economically. But that is where we are and if it takes us a little longer to build back doing it right it makes more sense than half-assing it and doing it wrong because it's faster Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Army Guy Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 19 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: I suspect that if we started really asserting what makes Canada strong and took more pride in our history and way of life, the Americans would be less interested in hassling Canada and Canadians would have more reasons to trust America, but we have to get the essentials right, including on defence or we won’t be taken seriously. We’re certainly more vulnerable if we can’t defend ourselves. Thats not what Canadians want, or we would be living the cream right now...Your right we do have to do something about our defense, as we are at rock bottom already, it took decades to get here it will take years to get back to what we once where....and no one international take us seriously on any topics of concern....why would they , they have been lied to as many times as the Canadian tax payer....and what do we have for them to take us seriously....most of our equipment is 40 years plus. old...a lot of third world countries have newer equipment...If Canadian's really knew the condition of our Armed forces , it would make them sick... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
TreeBeard Posted January 8 Report Posted January 8 4 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Thats not what Canadians want, or we would be living the cream right now...Your right we do have to do something about our defense, as we are at rock bottom already, it took decades to get here it will take years to get back to what we once where....and no one international take us seriously on any topics of concern....why would they , they have been lied to as many times as the Canadian tax payer....and what do we have for them to take us seriously....most of our equipment is 40 years plus. old...a lot of third world countries have newer equipment...If Canadian's really knew the condition of our Armed forces , it would make them sick... The person you’re responding to doesn’t think we would need to increase taxes to buy nuclear subs, aircraft carriers and a nuclear weapons program. I think he thinks defence spending grows on trees. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 3 hours ago, TreeBeard said: The person you’re responding to doesn’t think we would need to increase taxes to buy nuclear subs, aircraft carriers and a nuclear weapons program. I think he thinks defence spending grows on trees. We just have to reverse the additional public spending that Trudeau piled on over 10 years, including the additional bureaucracy, which is hundreds of billions of dollars. Quote
TreeBeard Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 10 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: We just have to reverse the additional public spending that Trudeau piled on over 10 years, including the additional bureaucracy, which is hundreds of billions of dollars. I bet we could build a space shuttle to go to Mars with all that money you’re saving in your fantasies! 🤪 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 14 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: I bet we could build a space shuttle to go to Mars with all that money you’re saving in your fantasies! 🤪 You saw the numbers. It’s hundreds of billions, and no, that overspending won’t be slashed. Quote
TreeBeard Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 13 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: You saw the numbers. It’s hundreds of billions, and no, that overspending won’t be slashed. Shuttles to Mars! Sign up for CASA! You’d be a great astronaut…. head in the clouds and all. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 5 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Shuttles to Mars! Sign up for CASA! You’d be a great astronaut…. head in the clouds and all. Why not just buy your Castro beret and start your revolution? 1 Quote
CdnFox Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 32 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Why not just buy your Castro beret and start your revolution? I doubt he can start a lawn mower The thing is you're right, but the challenge is just pulling that money out of Spending immediately would cause significant financial repercussions to the economy. It will take a number of years, you'd have to allow a significant portion to be a result of attrition, you'd probably be able to replace a lot of the jobs with automation but then that means an upfront cost to develop and deploy the automation, etc It absolutely has to be done and it absolutely can be done and it absolutely would save many tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars. But the challenge is it will take a while to get there and that's probably our biggest problem, the damage to our economy and our country is so severe that there is simply no way to repair it in a time scale that's less than decades. Even if we did everything right starting today it's probably close to 10 to 15 years before the housing situation is under control, 5 to 10 years before government spending even has a chance of being under control properly, years before major investment even considers eyeballing Canada never mind breaking ground on new projects that are significant in the kind of numbers we need, probably a decade before new pipelines can be finished that would allow us to diversify our oil market. Meanwhile people like treebeard keep laughing at the very idea that we should start correcting our problems, which doesn't bode well for getting underway anytime soon Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 On 1/7/2026 at 10:27 PM, Zeitgeist said: I suspect that if we started really asserting what makes Canada strong and took more pride in our history and way of life, the Americans would be less interested in hassling Canada and Canadians would have more reasons to trust America, but we have to get the essentials right, including on defence or we won’t be taken seriously. We’re certainly more vulnerable if we can’t defend ourselves. Very true...if Canada asserted itself this way, Americans and their government would have much more respect for Canadian self determination. This has been discussed many times over generations of CanAm relations..."seat at the table", bilateral policies, collective defense, trade, etc. Jean Chretien and Steven Harper understood these things...Justin Trudeau did not. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Zeitgeist Posted January 9 Report Posted January 9 (edited) It comes down to Canada getting serious about charting its own course and making the necessary sacrifices do do so, but I think we have a secondary problem besides overspending. There’s an alarming ideological push on the progressive side away from some very basic truths: A nation that doesn’t support its own cultural identity and communities at the most basic level, the family, has lost the plot completely. Men and women need to be able to afford to have kids and buy a home without being told that this cornerstone of a healthy society is patriarchal, gender normative or some other trendy pejorative from the ideologically captured Canadian political class and media, especially the CBC. We understand that people exist who don’t want to be their biological gender and who love all different kinds of creatures, but we’re well past live and let live. Canada has become a pusher of a whole range of dubious lifestyle choices that are not helping our families and birth rate: MAID, unlimited free access to abortion and birth control, easy access to hard drugs without legal consequences, taxpayer funded LGBTQ+ programming… What values does Canada actually stand for and want to protect? Unless we know what those are and have good reasons to defend them, we’re essentially throwing money at a losing proposition, because a nation that doesn’t stand for its core cultural values and cannot reproduce the population that has those cultural values must rely on mass immigration to survive and will lose its cultural identity in the process. That’s a failed project. This is a problem across the West that the Trump Republicans have correctly identified and Western countries need to get the memo. For me that’s the real illness Canada has. We need a clear and wise national purpose with which all of our spending priorities can align. Until that happens, we have no clear justification to fix what ails the country. Harper and Chretien did understand this, but Western cultures are under an unusually radical attack on many fronts: AI, transhumanism, Marxism, totalitarian surveillance and control, anti-Judeo-Christian movements, pushes for lifestyles that do not bear fruit, challenges to the founding cultural groups of our countries who have been labeled “settler colonial”… These forces must have their wings clipped. The Judeo-Christian identity of our culture and nation must be unapologetically asserted. Traditional families must be able to thrive. The country needs to defend those principles. Governments need to get out of programs that detract from that. If we’re going to go big on defence, I want to know what we’re defending and if it’s worth dying for. Edited January 9 by Zeitgeist Quote
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