Canadian Catholic student arrested for saying men are different from women.

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes.

2. The specific circumstances aren't clear, even if the broad details are right.

The reality is that he would not be free to say anything at all on the topic as he wishes to do.  Imagine the student had a religious objection to race mixing.  The school would similarly have to restrict him opinionating on that.

Catholic education is constitutionally protected in Canada.  Expressing a Catholic opinion is protected.

Also, why would a student have to be restricted from having an opinion?  You really think that’s fine?  At least we know you don’t support free speech.  If a student doesn’t support the mixing of races, there will be plenty of refutation of such beliefs by the vast majority of people.  That’s what an open society allows.  

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Trans students don't feel safe with girls who don't feel safe.  Get rid of them.

That would be untenable.  The question is how to set up a productive learning environment with people who have sharply different values.  Of course the natural conclusion is you ask people to keep insulting comments to themself.  You have a right to your opinion but you don't have carte blanche to state them in every setting, even in a school.

[myata]

Citizens who create a democracy for themselves can find solution to complex and challenging issues. They will be able to balance interests and maintain the balance between individual interests and communal ones and common sense.

- Inclusiveness is not an obligation to accommodate every individual issue, especially of selected, handpicked groups.

- Reasonable accommodation is an objective and a direction not a privilege for every desire.

Solutions can be found, for example in this case, gender-neutral washrooms from certain age; or more types of washrooms. But it never works in a priest, wise men style of democracy where some, selected few get to decide what is good for the society. That's a failing model that Canada is trodding happily to the well predictable conclusion.

[blackbird]

My hope is this student take this to court and see if his rights to basic freedoms will be upheld.  I think if a go-fund me was started for his legal fees, he would receive massive support.  

[West]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Mike always takes the side of using power to squelch opposition, no matter whether it’s against constitutionally protected rights or a matter of morality.  He will cite a rare counter-example that isn’t really analogous.  The problem with this level of justification for mistreatment is that it enables more of it.  These kinds of oppression have become normalized in Canada.   People have no recourse to criticize or push back because they can lose their jobs or be de-platformed in some other way.  The right not to be offended (which doesn’t exist) is used to prevent people from expressing opinions (which it appears is no longer a right in Canada).   Canada doesn’t have free speech and is a weak democracy.  

Yes earlier he suggested the students actions were akin to shooting somebody.

[West]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes.

2. The specific circumstances aren't clear, even if the broad details are right.

The reality is that he would not be free to say anything at all on the topic as he wishes to do.  Imagine the student had a religious objection to race mixing.  The school would similarly have to restrict him opinionating on that.

Why would they have to restrict his opinion on such a thing? Seems to me education and debate would be a better avenue rather than hissy fits, suspensions, and using the police to enforce your view

[reason10]

17 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

but the National Socialists outlawed cross dressing under Paragraph 183 of their Criminal Code,

so I'm not clear as to who you are accusing of being the Nazis here

Produce the criminal code, or admit you are making this up.

In any event, it has NOTHING to do with the subject of the thread. A STUDENT is arrested for avowing SCIENCE. Cross dressing is not the subject here.

[reason10]

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I can't see the post, but I am familiar with the case.  This is what I was telling Groot about, intellectual dishonesty.

The student was arrested for trespassing, not stating an opinion.

ATTENDING CLASS is trespassing? Seriously?

Maybe you should get your head out of THE VIEW'S ass and try reading some reliable sources.

From the article:

Arrested for holding Christian beliefs at a Christian school? Canadian Catholic high school student Josh Alexander claims that's the story behind authorities arresting – and charging – him for trying to attend class last month.

Alexander was a student at a Canadian Catholic high school in Ontario until he spoke his mind over concerns of men in women's restrooms at the institution.

Distinguishing men from women and believing God created only two genders, he suggested, eventually led authorities to arrest and charge him for the offense.

Arrest a kid for ATTENDING CLASS, just because he quoted SCIENCE?

Are you goose steppers REALLY that stupid?

You probably would have arrested Galileo for suggesting the Earth is not the center of the universe.

 

 

[Zeitgeist]

Yes, people are that stupid.

Imagine the most fringe left ill-informed communist and/or gender identity activists within the Democrat party running America.  That’s Canada.  The country doesn’t even have free speech.  I’m not sure it can be fixed either, because opposition is basically banned, declared a “human rights” violation by the same lunatic activists who run all our institutions now, from the courts to the education system.  The Governor General herself is an EDI activist who the PM installed.  All inquiries into government mismanagement are run by Liberal cronies. The government-funded media won’t report on any of this in a critical way that an honest person would equate with a free press.  

Edited March 13, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Americana Antifa]

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You obviously didn't read the op's article because it said straght in it that the kid was arrested for trespassing so you wouldn't have had to 'look it up if you had access to the article.

Well the article was from Fox, so I figured it was full of lies. And I was probably right, considering the headline was a lie.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Americana Antifa

[myata]

It's not intentional; just the good governments out of all bounds and controls don't know; wouldn't know and can't know where to stop. They are good and we can do anything (like, literally) to do it. Why would they stop anywhere, how? This is similar to the church that taught prayer and humility and took it all the way to inquisition. Governments out of control of citizens is a bad, bad thing. We should have known.

[Americana Antifa]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

No, he was expelled from Catholic school for expressing Catholic beliefs

Which are stupid.

Quote

Trespassing is clearly the enforcement tool that this moral coward of a principal used to prevent this student from attending school.  

What was he supposed to do when someone who got suspended shows up anyway? Fight him?

[Americana Antifa]

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

THe article never said he was arrested FOR being 'stupid' as you put it. Soooo - who lied exactly?

I was summing up what happened. He got suspended for being transphobic, which is stupid. So, in short, he got suspended for being stupid.

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

But it did note that was the inciting event, without the 'stupid' you have no arrest period. So saying that the arrest was a result of his opinion is not wrong.

Well there were two stupids. The second stupid was showing up to school after he got suspended. But the article, being from Fox, had to lie and pretend he got arrested for the first stupid.

[I am Groot]

10 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Yeah, the lie I was referring to was him getting arrested for being stupid. He was actually just suspended for being stupid.

Suspended for disagreeing with the religious fanatics of the woke movement.

[I am Groot]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. The specific circumstances aren't clear, even if the broad details are right.

I have seen no contradictions to what is laid out in various articles.

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The reality is that he would not be free to say anything at all on the topic as he wishes to do. 

Of course not. If he was derisive, insulting, obscene, etc., that would justify suspension. But given the discussion is on gender and bathrooms I would think even in a non-religious school setting, even on the subject of biology he would have a right to politely express his belief (which is likely shared by the vast majority of Canadians) that there are only two genders. I have seen no polls here, but the one I found from the US last year says 75% believe there are only two genders.

So how does a school justify an opinion shared by three out of four people getting you banned from campus as a safety threat? How do school boards justify shutting down meetings and calling police whenever a parent dares to question their fanaticism on this subject?

And btw, anyone who says that merely speaking about something causes an 'unsafe environment' should lose their right to vote, never mind run for office of any kind. Because clearly, their emotional fragility puts them below the minimum needed to be considered an adult.

 

[OftenWrong]

55 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The Governor General herself is an EDI activist who the PM installed.

Exactly. Let's keep in mind who is steering the overall direction on these matters.

This now is Trudeau's Canada!

[herbie]

Oh the outrage!

If you're asked to leave private property and you won't you get arrested for trespassing.

Your opinion on anything means nothing.

[Americana Antifa]

25 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Suspended for disagreeing with the religious fanatics of the woke movement.

Cry me a river and go for a swim. Every school, every website, every place of business has a TOS. If you go to a diner and start shouting racial slurs, you'll have to leave. Is that religious fanaticism? Is that the woke movement?

Y'all are such crybullies. You want to be a dick, but you don't want to deal with the consequences.

[myata]

20 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

And btw, anyone who says that merely speaking about something causes an 'unsafe environment' should lose their right to vote, never mind run for office of any kind. Because clearly, their emotional fragility puts them below the minimum needed to be considered an adult.

The country's politics and around are beyond (that is, below) the sanity level of a reasonable grown up. We'll have to live in an insane (like not, the opposite of sane and we just saw and experienced it already) environment and see how it works out. We never thought of mechanisms and conditions that would keep our governments sane and reasonable.

[CdnFox]

50 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

I was summing up what happened.

You misunderstand. I allowed you your sillyness and simply used your word  but i was referring to the same thing you were.  I meant the article never said he was arrested for his views on men and women.

 

52 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

The second stupid was showing up to school after he got suspended. But the article, being from Fox, had to lie and pretend he got arrested for the first stupid.

The lie would be yours.  Fox never pretended that in the slightest. They were very clear about that.  Where does fox say that the kid was arrested on any charges other than tresspass?

So,.. why did YOU feel the need to lie about what fox said? to the point of claiming you had to look it up elsewhere to discover the truth?

If you have to lie to make a point, you probably don't have a very good point

As to 'stupid', i'm sorry if this hurts your feelings but saying that a biological woman or man is a biological woman or man is not actually stupid, it's a factual statement even if it doesn't fit with whatever agenda you've got going on.  We can agree the issue is more complicated than that and we can agree that the discussion doesn't stop there but pretending that an aboslutely true biological fact is "stupid" is...  well..  stupid.

[CdnFox]

15 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Cry me a river and go for a swim. Every school, every website, every place of business has a TOS. If you go to a diner and start shouting racial slurs, you'll have to leave. Is that religious fanaticism? Is that the woke movement?

Y'all are such crybullies. You want to be a dick, but you don't want to deal with the consequences.

IS it a 'racial slur' now to say that a man is a man? If you said at a restaurant that black people are black i don' t know you'd get kicked out. In fact, if you got strange looks it would be because people would be thinking "yeahhhhh,... that's obvious, what's your point?".

And a school in Canada has a duty to provide for discussion on a variety of sensitive issues.  So - if this is a problem, then we don't need to change the student, we need to change the school.

[myata]

17 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And a school in Canada has a duty to provide for discussion on a variety of sensitive issues.  So - if this is a problem, then we don't need to change the student, we need to change the school.

Except for wise and benevolent governments, it's easier (like, a lot) the other way around. And they can.

[reason10]

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

Well the article was from Fox, so I figured it was full of lies. And I was probably right, considering the headline was a lie.

Only someone STUPID assumes Fox lies. It is the most honest and accurate news source in the world today. The headline was FACT, whether you goose steppers like it or not.

[CdnFox]

39 minutes ago, herbie said:

Oh the outrage!

If you're asked to leave private property and you won't you get arrested for trespassing.

Your opinion on anything means nothing.

It's a publicly funded school performing a publicly mandated service. It's not just someone's restaurant. They do have duties beyond that.

School is a place for such discussions, and for daring to have one the kid's educational future was put in jeopardy. That is utterly unacceptable. It is the job of the teachers and the school to guide them through a learning process, not to ban-hammer them because they don't like what they say.

[Americana Antifa]

30 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The lie would be yours.  Fox never pretended that in the slightest. They were very clear about that.  Where does fox say that the kid was arrested on any charges other than tresspass?

This is the headline: Canadian Catholic student arrested, charged after saying men, women are different: 'Embarrassing'

So the implication there is that he was arrested for being transphobic. I'm sure you're going to be dishonest and deny this, because you're conservative, but we both know that's what they were saying.

30 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

As to 'stupid', i'm sorry if this hurts your feelings but saying that a biological woman or man is a biological woman or man is not actually stupid, it's a factual statement even if it doesn't fit with whatever agenda you've got going on. 

Male and female are biological categories. Man and woman are gender categories. Please find a science book and have someone who can understand big words explain it to you.