Canadian Catholic student arrested for saying men are different from women.

[myata]

This well meaning, benevolent bureaucracy just assumed the right of ownership over the system it was running, without checks and controls for decades. It was supposed to be ours, citizens but oh well. Pretty books don't make active citizens and a functional democracy. It (thinks but it the same in this picture) that it's the only one who knows what is the right way of thinking and it will spare no efforts to make you agree. Because it can.

[Perspektiv]

Sorry, but he didn't get arrested for saying women and men are different. 

They are different. 

He got arrested for trespassing. However, likely got put in that position not for stating the obvious, but pushing his far right conservative views onto others. I don't believe someone who will proudly wear a MAGA like hat, will peacefully diplomatically voice their concerns. This is coming from a proud conservative, no less.

As a conservative the first thing I want to do, is distance myself from the far right.

I hate when news do this, and deliberately sensationalize stories go get clicks. 

Its precisely why I laugh when someone tells me they watch news for information. 

This is entertainment. 

Just like I wouldn't force my political opinions down my employers throat. You're there to do your job, and thats learn.

Take your concerns to the school board, or acting bodies. Create a stink and do what he likely did and try to harass and intimidate, and get removed from the premises.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Perspektiv

[Perspektiv]

If say a child of mine was in the girls washroom and someone with male parts was showering in the same space making girls uncomfortable, it isn't my job to challenge the trans student.

Its my job to voice my concerns to the school board.

I am not trying to embarrass that student, but rather voice my concerns that isn't it the right of all students to feel safe? Girls included? 

I don't know. From my experience, approaching touchy subjects sensibly in real life, you tend to have your concerns taken more seriously.

Make your concerns into a caricature, and get taken accordingly.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Perspektiv said:

Sorry, but he didn't get arrested for saying women and men are different. 

They are different. 

He got arrested for trespassing. However, likely got put in that position not for stating the obvious, but pushing his far right conservative views onto others. 

I hate when news do this, and deliberately sensationalize stories go get clicks. 

Its precisely why I laugh when someone tells me they watch news for information. 

This is entertainment. 

Just like I wouldn't force my political opinions down my employers throat. You're there to do your job, period. 

He got arrested because he said men and women are different. this has already been discussed at great lengths in this thread.  If he hadn't spoken out, then his presence there that day would NOT have been tresspass. This is part of his punishment for speaking out. It's not like he broke in or something.

And it's ignorant to suggest that believing a man and woman are different is "far right conservative" views. It is a basic biological fact that men and women are different. You can have discussions about gender and whether there's more than 2 of those but it is absolutely true that men and women are different.

This was a discussion which came up because WOMEN were uncomfortable with the biological male transgender students using the female washrooms. So it's not like he just started talking about this for no reason.

And this wasn't his 'job". This is an educational facility. He's a customer, not a worker.  The facility exists and gets public funding in order to make sure the children get an education and like it or not that DOES involve discussing sensitive issues. The fact that the administration handled this in a way that lead to his education being put at risk (the expulsion) and then locked him up rather than find a healthy way to deal with it is  a complete failure on their part.

 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Perspektiv said:

If say a child of mine was in the girls washroom and someone with male parts was showering in the same space making girls uncomfortable, it isn't my job to challenge the trans student.

Its my job to voice my concerns to the school board.

For which you'd be evicted and if your child spoke up they'd be banned for a year.  That's basically what's happened.

 

1 minute ago, Perspektiv said:

I don't know. From my experience, approaching touchy subjects sensibly in real life, you tend to have your concerns taken more seriously.

That is absolutely not what happened here. So he will grow up claiming that if you make a reasoned argument about something you will be attacked.  

So how do you think this child is going to handle things as an adult? Do you think he's now going to respect the idea of reasoned discourse as you suggest? Or is he going to think that you have to attack first one way or another because the moment you raise a valid concern they'll be after you, so better to be UNreasonable right off the bat.

If you don't reward the kids for talking in the first place (even if what they say is wrong), then you teach them to hold their wrong ideas in the shadows and deal with these 'threats' some other way.

[Zeitgeist]

This all could’ve been headed off if a single non-gendered washroom was provided for self-identified trans or non-binary and the student who complained was told that it’s fine to express opinions but to do so in a respectful way. Barring this student from school because of his views is a violation of constitutional rights because Catholic secondary school in Ontario is publicly funded and open to any students just like the public high schools.  The fact that the school muzzled and removed this student is the major issue.  The trespassing business and conservative media outrage was the likely outcome that could’ve been avoided.

The “trans” kid has full protection here, even though the Catholic Church only recognizes biological gender.  The two big mistakes were forgetting the raison d’être of a separate Catholic system (which could lead to its demise if there’s no recognition of catechetical beliefs) and failing to protect the human and Charter right to freedom of speech.  If the argument can now persuasively be made that Canada has no right to free speech, it raises the very compelling argument, what’s the value of the Canadian constitution?

The trans kid’s “rights” were clearly well protected here.  It actually raises questions about left wing political privilege and discrimination against people with conservative and/or religious beliefs in Canada. It also raises questions about how much safety is really valued, in this case the safety of the girls using washrooms, if protecting it runs afoul of left wing political beliefs or gender studies ideology.  

Edited March 14, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[myata]

20 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The trans kid’s “rights” were clearly well protected here.  It actually raises questions about left wing political privilege and discrimination against people with conservative and/or religious beliefs in Canada. It also raises questions about how much safety is really valued, in this case the safety of the girls using washrooms, if protecting it runs afoul of left wing political beliefs or gender studies ideology.

I'm not so sure in the root cause it would be down to ideology though in this particular case it appears that way. Canadian governments, and the bureaucracies that operate under them are entitled, by the nature and essence of the system to be supreme managers, making decisions of any impact or complexity single-handedly, forcefully, and in complete, total and absolute vacuum of accountability, checks and oversight. There aren't any meaningful, effective checks only pretend imitation ones, and that is the reason why so called "question period" really looks like a circus period and almost never, a meaningful, adult and responsible conversation.

In just a few iterations, it's bound to come back to you as: you know best. Always. You're entitled to the right of uncontested and not questioned decisions that are bound to be correct because you know best, and generally are a better, different kind of a human. Any reasonable human being understands, realizes and recognizes that their decisions can be and will be wrong some time. In Canadian governments you lose that ability, drop it as unnecessary feature, and fly over all and any bounds and constraints of the reality itself, because you can. And that is the reason.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

 

He got arrested for trespassing. 

Thank you. 

He could have said they're different and NOT been arrested too...

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

So he will grow up claiming that if you make a reasoned argument about something you will be attacked.  

Know what you stand for. Being attacked for it is irrelevant in my opinion. 

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

So how do you think this child is going to handle things as an adult?

If my child stood up for what they felt was right, I would be proud of them.

I tried to walk away from a bully as a child, and they kept following me around, feeling I was afraid. I just really didn't want to fight, and even though I have a background in combat sports, am anti-violence. 

He eventually cornered me, giving me no choice but to defend myself, as a crowd cheered on what they thought was going to be me turtling and getting knocked out. He had horribly miscalculated my passive posture.

My principal scolded me for fighting, and how horrible I was as a person, drowning out my pleas I told her I made to the person to leave me alone. 

My mother was proud of me. I stood up for myself. The bully was forced to respect me, and others knew it was a bad idea to test me. 

Yes, it sucked, but once I started standing up for myself, vs trying to walk away which I was taught (ignoring the bully), I grew in confidence and became less afraid to voice my opinion or speak up.

Plenty to learn here. Certainly am not condoning violence, as I don't think it was a good choice on my part.

Or he can take a page from those who got him arrested, and milk the victim card and learn nothing.

[Perspektiv]

I think anyone who knows me will know how I feel about gender. I don't mince my words if asked. 

However, there is a time and place for everything. 

Message boards for debate, green light.

Trying to humiliate someone trans just wanting to use the washroom? Get over yourself, or take it to the school board. If they don't want to change a thing, consider changing schools, same choice that trans kid would be faced with if tormented.

Part of why I can't side with most conservatives on this issue.

Am a strong believer in human rights, but you can't coddle people all their lives, on the other hand.

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

If he hadn't spoken out, then his presence there that day would NOT have been tresspass.

While I don't disagree with what started this, I don't agree he was tresspassed for stating his beliefs. 

There are two sides to every story. They just maybe have a code of conduct that was violated, and he refused to leave, so they assisted him.

Maybe am a cynic. But when someone plays the innocent card, then deliberately go to Fox News with a red MAGA like hat, its incredibly difficult to believe he was peacefully minding his business and was accosted by police for no reason.

[I am Groot]

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. You are assuming that there was a media connection there.  Not a good assumption to make.  

It's a big enough story and it's on social media enough. And teenagers talk.

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Yes, but it's still irrelevant.  People don't and shouldn't "poll" to assess matters of right and wrong

This isn't a matter of right and wrong (notwithstanding those terms are open for debate in numerous ways, although apparently not this one). This is a matter of fundamental science and narcissistic bullshit. You cannot say it's 'wrong' to politely state your opinion in a discussion that involves the very topic you give your opinion on. How do you hold a discussion on a topic if no one is allowed to disagree upon pain of expulsion?

"Okay, kids. We're going to have a discussion about transgender issues. By the way, if anyone disagrees they're going to be expelled. So, let's talk about it, shall we!"

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

4. Again, your argument fails because you feel like you know my personal views and how they impact my analysis.  You are guessing at best.

Come on. You've made many, many posts on transgenderism and you're definitely what they might call an ally, if not a fanatic one.

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

5. And you are seething about it based on your own posts.

Do you not realize how ironic you're writing this is in light of what you just said or was it meant to be ironic?

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

6. That doesn't afford you any extra say, in anything in my books so I stop reading that entence there.

I don't care what your books say. I'm paying for this shit with my Canadian taxes so I think I have a perfect right to be unhappy at supporting anti-Canadians.

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

8.  We're actually discussing the details now,

We're discussing the details HERE. If we tried to do it in a school right up through university, or at most workplaces, or on most websites I'd be expelled/fired/banned for daring to express a view contrary to that of the progressive regulatory environment IN SPITE of the fact only a small minority of people actually supports such a regulatory environment.

It's very much like life in a brutal dictatorship where everyone has to stand and chant and wave their fists and enthusiastically agree with whatever the stupid ideology/religion is or else be punished.

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

9. "Suspended for disagreeing " is the exaggeration. 

You are incorrect. He was suspended for disagreeing. Then he was served with an order to stay away from school because of 'safety'. 

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

He was suspended for trespassing

No, he was arrested for trespassing AFTER being suspended and told to stay away.

 

[I am Groot]

15 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Are we talking about a private school here? Because you can pull your funding and take your kid somewhere else.

A private school wouldn't act like this. Or if it did that's exactly what people would do. It's both a Catholic and a Public school in the two different cases mentioned.

[I am Groot]

14 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

I always found it odd how "Enlightened Centrists" could be so stupid.

That sentence reveals more about your sophistication and education than you probably would have preferred.

14 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

What do you think he was implying when he said men and women are different?

He was referring to reality, something about which I suspect you try to stay away from as much as possible.

14 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

He was basically saying that trans women aren't women.

They're not females. And that's what matters.

14 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Who cares? If you don't agree with the TOS, don't go to that school.

I prefer "If you don't agree with the TOS work to get it changed. And if the people in charge won't change it then you change the people in charge.

Edited March 14, 2023 by I am Groot

[I am Groot]

16 hours ago, herbie said:

Doesn't mean shit. If the principal of a school or the head librarian or the lifeguard or the assistant grocery manager kicks you out, you leave or you're trespassing.

F***ing KARENS

So if you're kicked out of a public school you're supposed to just not get an education. Is that what you're saying?

You know, schools in Ontario, have, according to the press and social media, a huge violence problem. And part of that is because even when students commit repeated acts of violence they're not expelled. Yet here we have a guy who dared to express an opinion in a discussion that is shared by three-quarters of the population and you and the other zealots seem to find nothing inappropriate with him being tossed out of school for it.

[Nationalist]

36 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

While I don't disagree with what started this, I don't agree he was tresspassed for stating his beliefs. 

There are two sides to every story. They just maybe have a code of conduct that was violated, and he refused to leave, so they assisted him.

Maybe am a cynic. But when someone plays the innocent card, then deliberately go to Fox News with a red MAGA like hat, its incredibly difficult to believe he was peacefully minding his business and was accosted by police for no reason.

TDS strikes again.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Thank you. 

He could have said they're different and NOT been arrested too...

No, he couldn't. THat's the point. If he'd said that then there was no suspension and he would have been welcome in class.

So if he had said they were not different there'd be no trespass.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

While I don't disagree with what started this, I don't agree he was tresspassed for stating his beliefs. 

There are two sides to every story. They just maybe have a code of conduct that was violated, and he refused to leave, so they assisted him.

The suspension appears to be a direct result of his opinion. So if thats a code of conduct violation, it's still being arrested for his opinion.

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Maybe am a cynic. But when someone plays the innocent card, then deliberately go to Fox News with a red MAGA like hat, its incredibly difficult to believe he was peacefully minding his business and was accosted by police for no reason.

The story didn't start at fox news, it was widely reported and fox picked it up.  So he didn't go running to fox news.

With ANY newspaper story there is a LIKELYHOOD that there's parts of it that are wrong and parts that are missing. Always. But - so far these facts seem pretty substantiated. And the school isn't denying them.

We'll see what a tribunal says.

[WestCanMan]

9 hours ago, Contrarian said:

I think you should stick with debating MAGA-level posters, there is a lost Canadian MAGA puppy above, saying something, careful with @WestCanMan he is known for manipulating basic mathematics but he is right on your alley of level in my view.  

You're such a lying piece of crap.

Trudeau, Biden and all the leftards say things like "It's a pandemic of the unvaccinated" and that's fine by you because it tickles your confirmation bias, but when I correctly point out that exactly 85.7% of covid deaths in Canada were among the unvaccinated last summer, or that covid deaths were higher in 2022 with 85% of Canadians vaccinated, you call me a manipulator? 

You're a hopelessly lost little propaganda victim 'contrarian' (sheeple-boy).

[Perspektiv]

23 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

it's still being arrested for his opinion.

No, he had the choice to leave. He should have escalated it via the school board. He chose high entitlement and bullhead tactics, and returned. These are all choices. 

His opinion only closed the door from their side. He could have demanded it to open, by going above the school.

I know someone who had police called on them, for refusing to leave school premises on a totally different matter. 

If I have a private business and you abuse my staff, or speak of subjects that makes them uncomfortable, I can ask you to stop, then have you trespassed.

Sorry, but am as opinionated as it gets and have yet to get arrested or even a citation, so I call BS on his victimhood.

Part of me wants to say well played, on letting them taste their own medicine (the activists in them, wanting to shut him down).

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

No, he had the choice to leave.

that's like saying he had a choice to not speak his mind in the first place.  Technically true but if that's your only recourse it's not much of a choice. It's more like being forced to do something that you believe is in violation of your rights.

Weren't you just mentioning you hope your kdis stand up to that kind of thing?

5 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

His opinion only closed the door from their side. He could have demanded it to open, by going above the school.

Why would a child think he'd be treated any more fairly there than at the school?

6 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

If I have a private business and you abuse my staff, or speak of subjects that makes them uncomfortable, I can ask you to stop, then have you trespassed.

This isn't a private business. This is a publicly funded learning institution. The child has a right to an education.

So to put it in a more realistic light - if your business that you own told a customer "we don't like you because you're jewish/black/gay whatever and then had the person arrested for trespass, that woudln't be ok.

8 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Sorry, but am as opinionated as it gets and have yet to get arrested or even a citation, so I call BS on his victimhood.

Ok - so how do you feel about the year suspension he got then. That is undeniably a direct result of his saying his opinon so - you ok with that too?

[Perspektiv]

48 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Weren't you just mentioning you hope your kdis stand up to that kind of thing?

I think standing for your beliefs is the right thing to do.

However, a wise man knows when to stop. 

I guarantee they told him he would be trespassed. He wasn't entitled to be there once the warning was issued. He was entitled to fight for his voice to be heard, in respect of the rules.

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

The child has a right to an education.

If there are rules in place, he doesn't have the right to break them.

I was suspended for a couple fights, and threatened with expulsion. 

I broke the rules, and paid a heavy price. Don't like the rules, you go to the governing body of the school system. 

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

"we don't like you because you're jewish/black/gay whatever

This is illegal and discriminatory.

You're describing a person with that tattooed on their forehead and making patrons uncomfortable and being asked to leave.

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

That is undeniably a direct result of his saying his opinon so - you ok with that too?

Fox is leaving a lot out. I would want to hear both sides.

[Perspektiv]

Fox and CNN tend to sensationalize to build division.

Like, if they say someone was arrested for saying there were two genders.

Read the fine print, and he was doing it naked, while in downtown Houston and spitting on people. 

I don't call casually leaving out key info, news.

One will sell papers, the other gets ridicule. 

Main reason I want to know the entire story with a headline like that. 

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I think standing for your beliefs is the right thing to do.

However, a wise man knows when to stop. 

So you should stand up for your rights unless someone tells you not to? Feels like there's a problem with that somewhere..

8 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I guarantee they told him he would be trespassed. He wasn't entitled to be there once the warning was issued. He was entitled to fight for his voice to be heard, in respect of the rules.

Well i'll point out that civil disobedience is baked into canadian law - which means you absolutely are entitled if your intent is to challenge the law. Which he appears to be doing.

And again - this is all over him stating his opinion.

8 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

This is illegal and discriminatory.

But but but - you've made it clear that that's fine if it's a rule. Nobody has a right to not obey the rule.

8 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

You're describing a person with that tattooed on their forehead and making patrons uncomfortable and being asked to leave.

No, there was no 'tattoing' here - this was a discussion that wasn't started by him because some girls already felt uncomfortable.

8 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Fox is leaving a lot out. I would want to hear both sides.

if you haven't heard the other side - how do you know they're leaving a lot out?

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

• Get it through your head upstairs, I have a doctor in my community who gave me all the information and made my decision. I did not listen to Fauci or a nobody/nobodies with no medical degrees on Twitter/Internet Boards.
• Years of trust with my doctor > Fauci + Nobodies on the Internet 

He has a doctor...