Canadian Catholic student arrested for saying men are different from women.

[Americana Antifa]

19 hours ago, CdnFox said:

The feds put antifa on a terrorist watch list  

If that's true, then they're wasting their time. The vast majority of political violence is done by the Right. They can keep an eye on anti-fascists if they want, but they won't find much.

Quote

 

In self defense i do as a general concept, with lots of caveats. I think what SOME people consider to be 'self defense' might stretch the term.

I'm not a million percent sure what you mean by 'sit in'. I think if you're deliberately impeding someone else's lawful protest, you're on the wrong side of history and morality.

 

Alright, so you agree with self-defense. So your real problem with Antifa is that they block marches. And you've been brainwashed into thinking every anti-fascist riots, but hopefully we can fix that with some education.

 

Quote

In america the left are the facists.

Name one policy the Left supports that you would consider fascist.

Keep in mind, deplatforming or boycotting something is not fascist.

Quote

 

And what you failed to note from that poll si that only 32 percent of people in the US think being called woke is a compliment. Most consider it an insult. Even with the more positive definition

So it would appear you're not correct there.  Although i'm fairly confidient without evidence at hand that you're right that the term 'woke' gets applied to anything the right leaning people don't like about leftist policy or actions without really thinking about the term.

 

Maybe with that one poll, but in most of them, Americans see being woke as a positive thing. That's why it's better to not cherry pick polls.

[Americana Antifa]

19 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Apparently  

So no more Jordan Peterson arguments, ja?

[Americana Antifa]

15 hours ago, Contrarian said:

I already answered this, violence is meant as a last resort which does not apply here. Not sure why are you keep asking me the same thing on different threads. I have a good memory. 

So then is your only probably with Antifa that you stupidly believe the narrative that the media created for them?

Keep in mind, right-wing media did the same for BLM. They painted the entire movement as violent just to discredit them.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

There's a fine line between standing up for your rights, and attempting to troll and bully another, after multiple warnings. Further information points to him trolling:

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/253702/canadian-catholic-school-student-who-was-suspended-for-protesting-transgender-bathroom-policy-speaks-out

No. I firmly believe there are two genders. There. Opinion stated.

What he is doing is borderline harassment. Especially since the school has an ironclad policy on their stance in this matter.

It's not harrassment in the slightest if you're approaching the principle. And he was ignored and turned away.

If he's pinning the trans kids to the wall and demanding they stay out of the bathroom - that's harassment and bullying. But i don't see that in that article.

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I see this as no different than me being offended at a religious symbol, and demanding a store to take it down. In their store. Just the sheer level of entitlement behind the act is mind boggling.

But it would be reversed in this case. And this isn't a 'store'.

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Planning a counter protest during a pride parade (follow the paper trail on this kid), is how you lose people who may have supported you on the washroom fiasco. 

He wasn't just voicing his rights. 

That is LITERALLY voicing his opinion (i know you meant that instead of rights) which should be his right to do. Protests and counter protests happen all the time. Now - you might think that's a bad idea. I actually tend to as well.  But he does have the right to protest and he does have the right to his opinion.  ANd there's nothing radical about "boys should not be in the girls bathroom",  it's a complex issue

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Let's make things clear. I would be uncomfortable with what looked like a female walking into the men's room to use the facilities. If they told me they were male, it would make me no more comfortable than a thief pointing a gun at me, reassuring me that they were loaded with blanks. 

There's a joke I could throw in, but its too soon.

Ok - ten internets for 'implied joke'

But at the end of the day it's not about our sympathy  or lack of it for the kids' cause or beliefs. It's how his rights to those beliefs and to express them were handled.

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

You can break laws and rules as you wish. Thats the beauty with adulthood. Actions have consequences. He chose to act, refused to back down, and if it's worth the fight, should continue.

But at a certain point, he will realize that his opinions have robbed him of tons of job opportunities.

And can we agree that having an opinion shouldn't?  (to be honest no employer is going to look this far back and his 'criminal' history won't appear in a search so it probably won't.)

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

So he planned a counter protest against a Pride parade to dial down the temperature?

I don't recall saying he attempted to dial down the temperature. I think he did it AFTER he tried the more reasonable method of approaching the school and got rebuffed.

But it's also worth noting that if the counter protest is why they banned him - that is an event off of school as i understand it. So - now this isn't about any on school policy, this is just they don't like him.

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

He wanted attention, they called him on its and he is grasping at straws trying to play the victim. 

He isn't a victim. 

Well he's a little bit the victim. They did choose to ban him. That was a choice they made, and it's very heavy handed. They might very well find that's not ok and they overstepped. I'm not saying the kid didn't play a part in all of this but they chose not to discuss the matter with him and then when he took other action they banned him, and when he challegned that they arrested him.  He's a child - this is not the way you handle children

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

So no more Jordan Peterson arguments, ja?

Whooopps - i think you got confused again. Although i can certainly understand that you'd want to limit the possible rebuttals to your position.

 

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

If that's true, then they're wasting their time. The vast majority of political violence is done by the Right.

nope -it's done by the left. The left just excuses it or says it's not a result of the person's left leaning beliefs. Pretty much as you tried to do with the pelosi attack.

 

10 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Alright, so you agree with self-defense. So your real problem with Antifa is that they block marches. And you've been brainwashed into thinking every anti-fascist riots, but hopefully we can fix that with some education.

Virtually none of that makes sense or represents a reasoned argument. the fact that i agree with people's right to self defense within parameters does not in any way shape or form speak to my "problems" with antifa.  Nor does it limit what issues i may have with antifa. Nor does it suggest i've been 'brainwashed'.

Sooooo - you just making crap up at random now or...  whatcha doing?

10 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

 

Name one policy the Left supports that you would consider fascist.

The repression of people's right to speak if it's not positively viewed by the left and the willingness to use physical force to enforce that.

10 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Keep in mind, deplatforming or boycotting something is not fascist.

Sure it is.  That's like saying "name one lie donald trump told, but remember that deliberately telling a falsehood isn't lying."  Yeah - it is, and you can't make that go away just by declaring it. YOu're not Michael Scott from the Office tv show

10 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Maybe with that one poll, but in most of them, Americans see being woke as a positive thing. That's why it's better to not cherry pick polls.

Nope. they don't. Polls sugggest that they might not see the term as being exclusively bad but they do not want to be considered woke themselves, they think of it negatively when it's applied to them.

And it gets even worse when they get polled on antifa.

Sorry but the excessive nature of the so called "woke"  or politically correct or social justice warrior or what have you is starting to turn people off. That's one of the reasons trump won, and lets face it if he hadn't been so freaking crazy on his twitter and in the media scrums he probably would have gotten elected again.

Even you here - i'm usualy the kind to look at both sides of things and consider opinions pros and cons but you come across as SO hate filled and over the top that it's hard to think of your position with anything other than amusement or distain. And that's pretty much how north america is coming to see the left these days. And biden isn't wowing anyone, that's for sure.

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

1. This is not a human rights issue. I really dislike how far people have stretched terms like this. It is not a 'human right' to be protected from anyone disagreeing with your self-declared gender. It is not a 'human right' to be able to pretend to be a different sex and be treated like that's true. One of the problems of the West is how that term has been stretched to the point of absurdity. Bein tortured or thrown in prison without trial or cause are violations of human rights.  Not being addressed by the pronoun of your choice is not.

2. "And you are seething"

3. No, it's actually quite similar. Do you think all the teachers at these schools believe in gender fluidity and that people can change gender overnight? Of course not! But if they dare to express their opinion they risk their job.

 

1. The roots of this point were already addressed in my previous post.
2. I am just stating my case here.  I am interested in helping focus on the issues at hand.  You are seething (I think) because you described Jully Black as such: "But this talentless, Canada-hating sow is the child of immigrants we allowed to come and stay here from Jamaica"  It's really not just a straightforward description of your issue with her now is it ?
3. There's lots of things that you could say that would get you fired.  It doesn't make Canada a brutal dictatorship.  It means it has professional standards.  If you don't agree with what's in the standard that's a different thing.  Your statement is frivolous and not worthy of a serious poster such as yourself and I won't respond to hyperbole any longer.

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And can we agree that having an opinion shouldn't?

If I google your name, and see you protested a Pride parade (or planned to), and went to Fox after getting arrested, refusing to accept that maybe your approach was inappropriate, not your opinion--I'm assuming you'll be a headache to employ. It would be a hunch.

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I don't recall saying he attempted to dial down the temperature.

That's because he escalated it. Deliberately no less, and then had the nerve to play victim.

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

They did choose to ban him.

If you made an insanely public spectacle about your views, with trans kids in your class no less, you at the very least would be deserving of the suspension.

I see it like someone I went to school with who was deathly allergic to a specific substance. It was as a result, banned from our school. This was part of the policy, to protect them.

Someone defiant, felt entitled to bring such product to school, and got suspended. They knew the policy, and chose to defy it, putting someone's life at risk.

He wasn't in any way shape or form, constructive. Constructive, is pushing for unisex washrooms. What he did, was dehumanize the trans students in his class, and then slapped them in the face by attempting to counter-protest their Pride parade.

[Americana Antifa]

3 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Communism:

The Black Book of Communism, a widely cited work by several European scholars, estimates that communist regimes in the 20th century were responsible for the deaths of approximately 100 million people worldwide, including deaths from famine, political purges, forced labor camps, and executions.

The Chinese Communist Party's Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution campaigns are estimated to have caused between 40 and 70 million deaths.

The Soviet Union under Stalin is estimated to have caused between 10 and 20 million deaths through purges, gulags, and forced collectivization.

Other communist regimes, such as those in North Korea, Cambodia, and Vietnam, have also been accused of mass killings and human rights abuses, but estimates vary widely.

First of all, the Black Book of Communism has been largely discredited.

Secondly, tankies are not commies. Communism means no government, no class, and in some cases no currency. Communism means the means of production are shared by the community.

Countries like the Soviet Union, North Korea, China, Vietnam, Hungary, East Germany, and so on never had communism or socialism.

[Americana Antifa]

3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

No one suggested it was.

It's part of the Enlightened Centrist meme. And several people on this forum think it is because stupid.

3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Ah,  yes, Socialism is much saner. As in Venezuela.

Venezuela never had Socialism. Please don't tell me you think something is socialist because they used the word.

Quote

Riiight. Because everything about the identity politics of the Left isn't about convincing everyone they're victims and then exalting being a victim as somehow being noble.

Identity politics is cringe no matter who is doing it.

Quote

Antifa is all about breaking the law.

Every protest has fringe violence. The fringe doesn't define the majority.

[Americana Antifa]

3 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Please don't insult my intelligence, you actually believe I take everything the New York Times or some elitist newspaper tells me? I am not a MAGA that goes to Breitbart and goes to bed thinking they have the whole picture. 

It's not just right-wing media that got Antifa wrong. It was also liberal media that has enabled fascism by bothsidesing.

Did you know in the past 25 years, not a single death was linked to Antifa? Like with BLM and past civil rights movements, the violence is very rare. But liberal media wants to equate the far-left with the far-right. They're afraid of appearing biased, so they pretend that anti-fascists and fascists are equally dangerous.

[Americana Antifa]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Whooopps - i think you got confused again. Although i can certainly understand that you'd want to limit the possible rebuttals to your position.

 

Were you not pretending it was illegal to be transphobic or some shit?

[Americana Antifa]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

nope -it's done by the left. The left just excuses it or says it's not a result of the person's left leaning beliefs. Pretty much as you tried to do with the pelosi attack.

I was going to ask for a source, but if you think leftists attacked Pelosi's husband, I know I'm not gonna get one.

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

 

Virtually none of that makes sense or represents a reasoned argument. the fact that i agree with people's right to self defense within parameters does not in any way shape or form speak to my "problems" with antifa.  Nor does it limit what issues i may have with antifa. Nor does it suggest i've been 'brainwashed'.

That's why I said you problem with Antifa is only one thing they do, which is the sit-ins. And you're brainwashed if you think most of the protests are violent.

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

The repression of people's right to speak if it's not positively viewed by the left and the willingness to use physical force to enforce that.

Which leftists are trying to make that law?

See, fascism is when the government bans speech. Fascism is not when people deplatform or boycott something. You have no real examples of the Left doing fascism.

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Sorry but the excessive nature of the so called "woke"  or politically correct or social justice warrior or what have you is starting to turn people off. That's one of the reasons trump won, and lets face it if he hadn't been so freaking crazy on his twitter and in the media scrums he probably would have gotten elected again.

The people you're talking about are so small in number that they barely exist. Right-wing media just focuses on them because they want you to think that SJW cucks are a major problem.

And yeah, SJW cucks are annoying, but at least they're just complaining a lot. They're not trying to ban speech they don't like. Only righties are trying to do that.

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Even you here - i'm usualy the kind to look at both sides of things and consider opinions pros and cons but you come across as SO hate filled and over the top that it's hard to think of your position with anything other than amusement or distain. And that's pretty much how north america is coming to see the left these days. And biden isn't wowing anyone, that's for sure.

But you're not looking at both sides in good faith. You're just trying to equate both sides so that you can remain in the Center. This is what actual fascists like Tim Pool do because it whitewashes fascism. Yeah, the Democrats suck, but saying they're just as bad as the Republicans is a dishonest tactic to make the Republicans more acceptable to a population that is generally against fascism.

[CdnFox]

11 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Were you not pretending it was illegal to be transphobic or some shit?

Still confused i believe. I don't recall saying it was illegal to be transphobic.

However - speaking in a fashion that is deemed to be transphobic could well land you criminal hate speech charges depending, and an even lower bar is a trip to the provincial human rights council.

As for Peterson, he doesn't say anything negative about trans people, he mostly says nobody should be compelled in their speech by law. It's one thing to say you can't say a word, it's another to say you must.

But of course the left MUST make him out to be a nazi and homophobe and transphobe and racist and .. sorry did i miss any of your favorite slanders? the left does love to pile them on

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

I was going to ask for a source, but if you think leftists attacked Pelosi's husband, I know I'm not gonna get one.

So you know it's true and rather not have it demonstrated. undrestandable.

5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

That's why I said you problem with Antifa is only one thing they do, which is the sit-ins. And you're brainwashed if you think most of the protests are violent.

That still has nothing to do with self defense.

And if SOME people in antifa are violent and the OTHERS tolerate that , then they're all violent. Either directly or by association and cooperation.

5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Which leftists are trying to make that law?

quite a few. In fact some have passed in Canada.

So - you asked which ones are facist - what's your response to that.

5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

See, fascism is when the government bans speech. Fascism is not when people deplatform or boycott something. You have no real examples of the Left doing fascism.

of course it's facism. It is insane to think that it's one thing if the gov't odes it but not if someone else does it.  The act itself is what creates the facsim, not the actor.  Musilini would still have been a facist before he got into power.

So i have TONNES of examples of the left doing facism. What YOU are doing is what the left always does - when they commit a human rights violation they attempt to alter the normal definition of a word to try to pretend it doesn't apply to them. That's why it's not racist to be racist to white people

 

5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

The people you're talking about are so small in number that they barely exist. Right-wing media just focuses on them because they want you to think that SJW cucks are a major problem.

Really - well give me a count then and show your sources. I'll wait.

5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

And yeah, SJW cucks are annoying, but at least they're just complaining a lot. They're not trying to ban speech they don't like.

THat is literally one of their favorite things to do. It's literally where the whole SJW meme started. Puling fire alarms at speeches. Burning berkley till it banned people they don't like. the list is endless.

5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

But you're not looking at both sides in good faith. You're just trying to equate both sides so that you can remain in the Center.

I suspect i give both sides a good honest look more than you do. You throw around a LOOTTTA rhetoric for someone who's taking a dispassionate view at both.

5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

 

This is what actual fascists like Tim Pool do because it whitewashes fascism. Yeah, the Democrats suck, but saying they're just as bad as the Republicans is a dishonest tactic to make the Republicans more acceptable to a population that is generally against fascism.

No, they're just as bad. Saying they're not is simply protecting your tribe. They are easily demonstrably every bit as bad, and when it comes to hypocracy they are demonstrably far worse. There simply are no white hats in american politics right now but of the two the left is slightly worse yet demands it's slightly better. But as an outside observer, it's pretty easy to see

[Americana Antifa]

22 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

However - speaking in a fashion that is deemed to be transphobic could well land you criminal hate speech charges depending, and an even lower bar is a trip to the provincial human rights council.

Sure, and I disagree with that. I don't think hate speech should be illegal. However, the Right is lying when they say that people get arrested for misgendering people.

If you didn't make a similar argument, then my bad. I'm new to this forum and the format is kinda confusing compared to other message boards.

22 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

As for Peterson, he doesn't say anything negative about trans people, he mostly says nobody should be compelled in their speech by law. It's one thing to say you can't say a word, it's another to say you must.

But of course the left MUST make him out to be a nazi and homophobe and transphobe and racist and .. sorry did i miss any of your favorite slanders? the left does love to pile them on

Ohhhhh, boy. Alright, I'm going to assume you're being honest here, try not to disappoint me.

First, Peterson was wrong about the bill. It didn't say it's illegal to misgender people. It said that you can't legally discriminate against people based on gender identity, the same way you can't discriminate based on race, sex, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation and age. Now I'm going to assume this was an honest mistake because Peterson is a retard.

However, Peterson regularly promotes the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory, which is a Nazi theory. That doesn't mean he's a Nazi, I don't think he is, but he does promote Nazism, so I don't blame people for assuming he is one.

Finally, Peterson has become extremely transphobic in recent years. He's gone after Elliot Page for just existing in public. He said even adults shouldn't be allowed to transition. Again, Peterson is a retard, so he's probably just blindly going along with right-wing media as it moves further Right. But it doesn't change the fact that he is promoting transphobia and Nazism.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Americana Antifa

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

If I google your name, and see you protested a Pride parade (or planned to), and went to Fox after getting arrested, refusing to accept that maybe your approach was inappropriate, not your opinion--I'm assuming you'll be a headache to employ. It would be a hunch.

That nicely avoided my question entirely. and by the time he's out in the workplace i doubt it'll even come up on a google search except 28 pages back.

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

That's because he escalated it. Deliberately no less, and then had the nerve to play victim.

Forced to because the school wouldn't discuss it with him. So it was not him who chose to escallate, it was them that chose that as his only other option. Bad call.

 

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

If you made an insanely public spectacle about your views, with trans kids in your class no less, you at the very least would be deserving of the suspension.

Insanely public? He tried to address it with the school. They didn't listen. His next choice was to go public and organize what sounds like a pretty small counter protest to raise awareness.

So - what do you call the BLM marches then? If a handful of people are insane - what level of madness do you attribute to that?

It sounds a lot like what your'e saying over and over is that if he had a different opinon he should shut up and if the doesn't shut up he should be forced to shut up and punished until he does, and he'll have it coming

I think that's a fast way to an authoritarian society and it's a guaranteed way to turn a lot of people against trans rights. There will be a lot of people, moderate people mind you, who will walk away from that situaiton thinking 'wow - it's really us vs them if i dare to disagree".  And that's how bigotry and hatred gets started.

I note that attacks on trans and gays has been going up in both canada and the us in the last few years. And that policies like this have been enforced for the last few years.

Coincidence i'm sure.

[Americana Antifa]

31 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So you know it's true and rather not have it demonstrated. undrestandable.

No, I just don't care to debate conspiracy theories. I'm also not going to bother to prove that the 2020 election wasn't stolen.

31 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And if SOME people in antifa are violent and the OTHERS tolerate that , then they're all violent. Either directly or by association and cooperation.

Well I don't tolerate that. I wouldn't protest with someone who initiates violence. But I can't control the actions of every anti-fascist. And it's like that for every population. I also can't control the actions of every American. Some Americans are criminals, it doesn't mean all Americans are, right?

31 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

of course it's facism. It is insane to think that it's one thing if the gov't odes it but not if someone else does it.  The act itself is what creates the facsim, not the actor.  Musilini would still have been a facist before he got into power.

So let me get this straight. Let's say I own a music club. I book bands to perform, sell tickets, all that good stuff. I decide that I don't want to book Neo-Nazi bands to play at my venue. You would say that by refusing to give a platform to Neo-Nazi bands, I'm being fascist?

Quote

No, they're just as bad. Saying they're not is simply protecting your tribe. They are easily demonstrably every bit as bad, and when it comes to hypocracy they are demonstrably far worse. There simply are no white hats in american politics right now but of the two the left is slightly worse yet demands it's slightly better. But as an outside observer, it's pretty easy to see

But you're judging the Left by a tiny minority of people. This is why it makes more sense to judge populations by their elected officials and community activists. When it comes to America, the face of the Left is Bernie Sanders, the face of the Center is Joe Biden, and the face of the Right is Donald Trump. These are the people that have the most support in each of their political fields, so they represent their respective populations. You wouldn't say some random SJW on twitter represents the Left because for all we know they could have fringe ideas, ja?

Now, I have disagreements with Sanders, Biden, and Trump. But there's no question that Trump is infinitely worse than Sanders and even Biden.

[CdnFox]

20 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Sure, and I disagree with that. I don't think hate speech should be illegal. However, the Right is lying when they say that people get arrested for misgendering people.

They can in canada, and this kid comes pretty damn close. And you could suffer a fate many consider worse - you could be forced from your job, have your career or family ruined, etc. Which is in many respects worse than jail.

 

22 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

If you didn't make a similar argument, then my bad. I'm new to this forum and the format is kinda confusing compared to other message boards.

I don't know that we're far apart on this point. And i wouldn't expect you to know canadian law, just as i'm not as conversant in us laws. But the laws here are MUCH stricter. i think we both agree they probaby shouldnt be from the sounds of it. For moral AND practical reasons.

24 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

First, Peterson was wrong about the bill. It didn't say it's illegal to misgender people. It said that you can't legally discriminate against people based on gender identity, the same way you can't discriminate based on race, sex, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation and age. Now I'm going to assume this was an honest mistake because Peterson is a retard.

Uhhh -this already was tested in an ontario human rights trial  and he was right. ALSO - even before that institutions were using it to threaten students, saying they would have them charged under that provision. Read up on the Lindsey Shepard case. She was threatened with charges under that provision just for showing a debate peterson had on tv with another professor organized by the universities to her class.

26 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

However, Peterson regularly promotes the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory, which is a Nazi theory. That doesn't mean he's a Nazi, I don't think he is, but he does promote Nazism, so I don't blame people for assuming he is one.

It is absolutely not a nazi theory   the nazi's definitiely had strong opinions about the communists and it was communist violence that lead to the nazi's talking their way into power to 'fight it'. (read up on the red wedding incident. The real one, not game of thrones. wedding is a district in germany).

This is the old logical fallacy of "hitler had a cat. You have a cat. You must be like hitler".   Nope. People all over the world note the same issues with socialism and communism, and he notes issues with the current version that simply woudn't have existed back in the nazi days.

Not agreeing with communists is not just a 'nazi' thing  

30 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Finally, Peterson has become extremely transphobic in recent years. He's gone after Elliot Page for just existing in public. He said even adults shouldn't be allowed to transition.

Honestly i dont' follow him much so i can't dispute that but you'll have to excuse me if i'm not going to accept that at face value from you. If he did say it he must have said it quietly, i can't find anything on google about it and i would think that would be pretty headline news. That doesn't mean he didn't, but i'm going to need more than that.

As i've admitted i don't watch a lot of his stuff, i watched more of it when he was all about social models and the like because it was very well researched and interesting, but the bits i have seen where he mentions trans at all that are more recent seem to be about children more than adults.

In any case - he can't be saying taht MUCH about trans people or it wouldn't be hard to find.

 

[CdnFox]

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

No, I just don't care to debate conspiracy theories. I'm also not going to bother to prove that the 2020 election wasn't stolen.

LOL - well that doesn't really have the ring of truth to it

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

Well I don't tolerate that. I wouldn't protest with someone who initiates violence. But I can't control the actions of every anti-fascist. And it's like that for every population. I also can't control the actions of every American. Some Americans are criminals, it doesn't mean all Americans are, right?

Americans lock up people they find committing crimes.  Can you point to a case where antifa has turned over one of it's own for violence?

I can appreciate that YOU would refuse to attend an event where you believed there might be violence ,but that does not seem to be the norm considering how many violent events are attended.

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

So let me get this straight. Let's say I own a music club. I book bands to perform, sell tickets, all that good stuff. I decide that I don't want to book Neo-Nazi bands to play at my venue. You would say that by refusing to give a platform to Neo-Nazi bands, I'm being fascist?

If you're a booker then you are the customer. that's not the same thing as a public venue where the speaker and audience is the customer,

Futher - the venues are't saying this - they are attacked and pressured into it by activists. They book someone and then there's an uproar. So it would be more like you decide your customers would like to hear country music, and a bunch of punk rock people show up and threaten to trash the place if you do.

And yes - i  think those things would be bad.

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

But you're judging the Left by a tiny minority of people. This is why it makes more sense to judge populations by their elected officials and community activists. When it comes to America, the face of the Left is Bernie Sanders, the face of the Center is Joe Biden, and the face of the Right is Donald Trump.

ROFLMAO - hardly. The face of the left is AOC. The face of the right currently is desantis. There is no middle, and nobody thinks biden is the face of anything. Trump is the face of people who for whatever reason are just sick of it all and want to see it burn.

In any case you can't really say that they represent their respective people's at all. They may have during an election but for example look at biden's numbers now vs when he got elected.  And when you give people two choices they go for the least wrong one which isn't to say they like them. And lets face it - a percent will vote based on tribal lines on both sides no matter who the candidate is.

I don't know there is a 'good' way to judge large hunks of people other than very very general terms.

Just now, Americana Antifa said:

 

Now, I have disagreements with Sanders, Biden, and Trump. But there's no question that Trump is infinitely worse than Sanders and even Biden.

Well it depends on what you mean by worse.  The economy was good under trump and would almost certainly be better than sanders, economically he'd be a disaster.  Sanders is less likely to be a source of social instability, (AOC sure as hell would  be tho) Sanders is more likely to focus on social issues and social equity and environmental concerns, trump would more likely focus on things like strengthening nato.

Biden died about 7 years ago and just hasn't stopped moving yet so we'll just think of him as a placeholder for now.

So - what's your poison? If you care more about the economy then trump is a far better choice despite his clear mental issues and instability.  If you're concerned about the environment and social issues, bernie would be your only candidate, you'd require a lobotomy to consider trump.

Things are just like that, and what is important to you may change from time to time. You might care about the environment right now and then there's a recession and you can't find work, so you decide the economy is a big concern.  In college you might be very concerned about social issues - you get out, do well and build a business and make good money and suddenly you Do car about taxes and 'tax the rich' isn't as good an idea.

So - you just can't make blanket statements like that. Everyone has priorities

 

[I am Groot]

14 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

It's part of the Enlightened Centrist meme. And several people on this forum think it is because stupid.

The similarity is that both are extremely authoritarian. 

14 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Venezuela never had Socialism. Please don't tell me you think something is socialist because they used the word.

Yes, I've heard this before. None of those Socialist countries that were or are authoritarian nightmares were REAL socialist countries. It's just a coincidence that ALL Socialist countries were horrible, brutal regimes.

14 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Identity politics is cringe no matter who is doing it.

Every protest has fringe violence. The fringe doesn't define the majority.

Antifa is a fringe outfit which is all about identity politics.

[I am Groot]

21 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. The roots of this point were already addressed in my previous post.

It's still a silly exaggeration. Not EVERYTHING is a human right. Especially considering so many of those who consider this a human right don't believe freedom of speech or religion should be.

21 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. I am just stating my case here.  I am interested in helping focus on the issues at hand.  You are seething (I think)

You are imputing a degree of emotionality to me in the very next sentence in which you protest my presumptions about your attitude.

21 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

because you described Jully Black as such: "But this talentless, Canada-hating sow is the child of immigrants we allowed to come and stay here from Jamaica"  It's really not just a straightforward description of your issue with her now is it ?

I don't actually have to be 'seething' to insult someone on the internet, you know...

21 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. There's lots of things that you could say that would get you fired.  It doesn't make Canada a brutal dictatorship.  It means it has professional standards. 

That's not a legitimate argument. You can make ANYTHING a 'professional standard' or some other required rule of behavior. And if you do then no one is allowed to express a counter view or else they'll be silenced, fired, and marched off the site. Would it be acceptable to you if the Tories decided to make any disrespectful or disparaging statements about Canada's previous leaders and history a violation of 'professional standards' and fired any teacher who violated it?

How about if they say there are two genders, period, and make it against professional standards to take any other position?

 

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

I don't actually have to be 'seething' to insult someone on the internet, you know...

That's true.  There's an app for that.  Jerk.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

1. Not EVERYTHING is a human right. 

2. You are imputing a degree of emotionality to me in the very next sentence in which you protest my presumptions about your attitude. I don't actually have to be 'seething' to insult someone on the internet, you know...

3. You can make ANYTHING a 'professional standard' or some other required rule of behavior.

4. And if you do then no one is allowed to express a counter view or else they'll be silenced, fired, and marched off the site.

5. Would it be acceptable to you if the Tories decided to make any disrespectful or disparaging statements about Canada's previous leaders and history a violation of 'professional standards' and fired any teacher who violated it?

6. How about if they say there are two genders, period, and make it against professional standards to take any other position?

 

1. Well the policy was set based on the Charter and the challenge is rights based so.... Anyway can we move on from this point or are you going to continue to repeat it ?
2. Calling someone a "cow" ... where does it come from to insult someone that you don't know so deeply ?  If you're not deeply offended then what is it ?  If your feelings aren't hurt then .... why ?
3. Does this happen ?  Do dictatorships get professional associations to make up standards to enforce their dictatorships ?  I feel like we're out on a limb here.
4. I'm ambivalent about it.   But again it's a different context than this specific case - it's workplace rules.  
5. I have to put up with Poilievre hyperbole ... saying that Trudeau is a traitor etc.  Trudeau saying that the Convoy was a fringe minority... Listen - don't put too much stock in what politicians say.
6. Yeah, I think maybe psychology and medical do this kind of thing.  They want to prevent their members from doing things like endorsing "conversion therapy", quackery and so on...

[Zeitgeist]

Why is therapy to deal with dysphoria any worse than surgery, hormone blockers, etc.?   The issue I have with your views Mike is that you’ve already bought the ruling political perspective before the debate has started.  At the extreme we could call this brainwashing because I don’t think you’re aware of how steeped in specific ideologies your perspectives are.  If one is raised in a communist society I would expect similar unconscious biases.

The truth is that the only reliable basis for gender is biological.  All else is surgery, dress up, and feeling very strongly about a “gender”.   It’s fine to say that out of compassion and respect people should be nice towards trans people, and people can even play along with the lie to “affirm gender”, but don’t make people deny what they know and don’t compel speech.  This student had a right to speak out and there’s no guarantee that his mic wouldn’t be turned off if he attempted to raise his concerns about use of the girls’ washroom by a trans person at a school board meeting.

That’s the big take away for me from all of this.  How did this enforced policy arrive without debate or public mandate?  How did it become okay to shut down dissenting opinions?  How did questionable gender identities become enshrined as human rights in Canada without an open, reasoned debate and the kinds of detailed adjustments that characterize much less radical legislation with fewer implications?

We know that the trans kids are protected here.  Their faces and identities haven’t been shared.  All we hear are knee-jerk negative reactions from the left-wing Canadian group think about how the kid who was expelled for his views wore a red hat that looks like a MAGA hat.  Even if it was a MAGA hat, why would that matter?

Canadians have come to accept a degraded democracy where free speech is shut down in the name of fear of cancellation.  It’s not even about safety, because our fear of offence has made it impossible to enforce rules that prevent violence or put dangerous people behind bars. What a strange country. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Zeitgeist