Black history month? What a load of...

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Just to be clear, Canada doesn't now and has never had significant black racism?

Not what I said. All nations have a racist past (something generally overlooked). Most have a racist present, too.

But virtually none of the Black people in Canada today or their ancestors suffered because of our racism. In fact, the vast majority of them prospered due to our lack of racism in allowing them to immigrate here.

Edited February 2, 2023 by I am Groot

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, I am Groot said:

1. Not what I said.  

2. But virtually none of the Black people in Canada today or their ancestors suffered because of our racism. 

Sorry - can't resolve these two.

[Nationalist]

So if I understand this all correctly...Black History month is a thing so Caucasians can...feel good that they recognize we have various coloured skinned people in our society?

What am I missing here? 

[I am Groot]

17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sorry - can't resolve these two.

What is your issue? If their ancestors weren't here they could hardly have suffered from our racism, now could they?

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

that safe haven was not instituted by the Government of Canada

quite the opposite

while there were freedom loving Canadians who could not abide slavery

the Government of Canada invoked the Union as its sworn enemy

and the Confederacy as an ally of the Crown

the Confederates openly operated out of Canada, their intelligence service HQ was on Front Street in Toronto

when the Union won the war, Canada provided a safe haven for Confederates fleeing in the face of it

upon his release from a Union prison

the defeated Jefferson Davis was invited to tour Canada, feted as a hero everywhere he went

moral of the story : Canada's fear & loathing of American freedom, incites Canada to do evil hysterically

Well sure.  On some levels all countries are disgusting.  It’s a matter of context and relative disgustingness.  Canada did some officially racist stuff, from the head tax on Asian workers to turning back a ship of Jewish refugees during WW2.  We can look back at various examples of evil and servitude as cautionary stories for our present, but the reality is that you can find injustice among all groups and individuals.  We just have to be honest and avoid making people out to be oppressors or savages merely because they happen to have biological features over which they have little or no control.  I still think colonial Canada comes out ahead of most civilizations in terms of social harmony, advancement, and well-being.  However, if we continue to hamper free speech and dismantle meritocracies, Canada will decline significantly.  On the freedom scale it already has.  

Edited February 2, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Nefarious Banana]

[Dougie93]

29 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well sure.  On some levels all countries are disgusting.  It’s a matter of context and relative disgustingness.  Canada did some officially racist stuff, from the head tax on Asian workers to turning back a ship of Jewish refugees during WW2.  We can look back at various examples of evil and servitude as cautionary stories for our present, but the reality is that you can find injustice among all groups and individuals.  We just have to be honest and avoid making people out to be oppressors or savages merely because they happen to have biological features over which they have little or no control.  I still think colonial Canada comes out ahead of most civilizations in terms of social harmony, advancement, and well-being.  However, if we continue to hamper free speech and dismantle meritocracies, Canada will decline significantly.  On the freedom scale it already has.  

the Vimy Myth addresses this issue directly

upon arrival at the Western Front, the nascent Canadian Corps was saddled with the albatross of Sam Hughes

Minister of Militia, Sam Hughes, was an utterly inept lunatic, much like Justin Trudeau

the interference therein, of the fatuous & delusional Government, resulted in catastrophic casualties

until a British aristocrat, personal friend of the King, Julian Byng,  put a stop to it

the Commander of the Canadian Corps, invoked the authority of the Crown itself, to override the Government

in doing so,  he saved not only the Canadian Corps, but in fact, won the war in end

in a Hundred Days, from Amiens to Mons

Edited February 2, 2023 by Dougie93

[WestCanMan]

10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

virtue signalling

Yeah you were.

Quote

It's like they despise kindness...

It like you think that you're pontificating when you say 3+3=jello. Sorry MH, your posts are falling flat.

Quote

the minor gesture of devoting a month to reflect on the treatment of black people bothers them enough to post about it.

You don't think it's a big thing to devote a month to black people?

Veterans get 1 single day and they've done more and suffered more than African Canadians have. I'd never acknowledge that shit in Canada. 

Victims of violent crime don't even get a day, unless "cash-free bail" day counts.

[RedDog]

On 2/2/2023 at 12:21 PM, Zeitgeist said:

There’s meaningful black history because Ontario was the end goal of the Underground Railroad to freedom for slaves.  Ontario was called New Canaan.  There are also important historical black settlements in Nova Scotia.  Canada was a relative safety haven though racist attitudes by today’s standards were certainly prevalent.  

Labeling everyone else is no safe haven. Your lies are exposed. Focus on saving and being remembered  for something meaningful. Your life needs a purpose.

Edited February 9, 2023 by RedDog

[Aristides]

Last week there was a show about Canadian black combat vets from WW2.  They were denied certain positions in the military simply because of their race. In combat units they were treated as equals by their comrades but discriminated against when they got home. There was one incident cited where two black vets went into a coffee shop in uniform after they arrived back in Ontario and were refused service by an owner who was also a vet. This was not unusual at the time. 

[I am Groot]

2 hours ago, Aristides said:

Last week there was a show about Canadian black combat vets from WW2.  They were denied certain positions in the military simply because of their race. In combat units they were treated as equals by their comrades but discriminated against when they got home. There was one incident cited where two black vets went into a coffee shop in uniform after they arrived back in Ontario and were refused service by an owner who was also a vet. This was not unusual at the time. 

And how many black vets do you imagine we had? The entirety of Canada's black population was about 30k in 1971. It was so low it wasn't even recorded prior to that.  I doubt we had more than 10-15k black people in the 1940s.

There is no sense to this 'black history month'. We took it from the Americans because our progressives take all their ideas from the Americans.

Edit: looked it up. About 600-700 served in construction units. Only bout 100 served on the front lines.

Edited February 9, 2023 by I am Groot

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

And how many black vets do you imagine we had? The entirety of Canada's black population was about 30k in 1971. It was so low it wasn't even recorded prior to that.  I doubt we had more than 10-15k black people in the 1940s.

There is no sense to this 'black history month'. We took it from the Americans because our progressives take all their ideas from the Americans.

Edit: looked it up. About 600-700 served in construction units. Only bout 100 served on the front lines.

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/black-canadians

[I am Groot]

18 minutes ago, Aristides said:

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/black-canadians

Is this supposed to mean anything? I'm not denying there were black people in Canada. There were natives, too, and Chinese and Indians. Do they all get their own history month? Black people simply were not numerous enough to be of any importance in Canadian history.

[Moonlight Graham]

On 2/1/2023 at 8:21 PM, WestCanMan said:

I didn't even know that we had "black history month" until today. https://pm.gc.ca/en/news/statements/2023/02/01/statement-prime-minister-black-history-month

They had one last year too.

How long has this been a thing here? 

Who started it?

Do we have a First Nations History month?Jewish? Latino? Indian? Chinese? Japanese? Hindu? Sikh? LGBT? Trans? 

There aren't enough months to give everyone a month, and I'm completely unaware of any reasons why black Canadians get a month and other people don't. 

They have a "heritage month" in Canada for most ethnic groups.

[Zeitgeist]

10 hours ago, RedDog said:

Labeling everyone else is no safe haven. Your lies are exposed. Focus on saving and being remembered  for something meaningful. Your life needs a purpose.

I call it as I see it based on what I know of history and I’m open to criticism and debunking if evidence supports it. That’s my purpose on here.  My life’s purpose is bigger than this forum, which is mostly a distraction when I’m bored.  That doesn’t mean that forums like this don’t have value.  Sometimes the arguments are strong.  Mostly they’re recycled from media or they state the obvious.  

Edited February 10, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Moonbox]

16 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Is this supposed to mean anything? I'm not denying there were black people in Canada. There were natives, too, and Chinese and Indians. Do they all get their own history month? Black people simply were not numerous enough to be of any importance in Canadian history.

I think the better question is, what does it matter if they get their "own history month"?  

What is it doing to you?  Is it taking anything from you?  Are they afforded any extraordinary privileges during this month?  Are they allowed to cut in front of you in line?  To exclusively use the left lane of the highway?  Do they get special deals?  

Why does this matter?  

"It's being shoved down my throat" isn't an intelligent answer, either, because all that means is that you're somehow offended, and if you're a big non-woke boy with a thick skin, you should be able to get over it.  

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

1. What is it doing to you?  Is it taking anything from you?  Are they afforded any extraordinary privileges during this month?  Are they allowed to cut in front of you in line?  To exclusively use the left lane of the highway?  Do they get special deals?   Why does this matter?  

2. "It's being shoved down my throat" isn't an intelligent answer, either, because all that means is that you're somehow offended, and if you're a big non-woke boy with a thick skin, you should be able to get over it.  

1. It seems to me it's about cultural dominance.  The power to decide what "the" story is.  This is at the root of the culture wars too - people saying that "snowflakes" are crying about minor details about our culture and simultaneously complaining about something called "Black History Month" which is simply reflection

2. It's an admission that culture wars are fought by yelling.  So if you believe that, then get ready to be yelled at.  I prefer to discuss and listen....  I empathized with the poor truckers in the convoy to a point... and they yelled and made noise.  
 

[Moonbox]

I really don't understand it.  The inherent contradictions in so many of these attitudes are too difficult for me to reconcile.  

 

[WestCanMan]

18 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

They have a "heritage month" in Canada for most ethnic groups.

What a bunch of second class losers. 

[OftenWrong]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It seems to me it's about cultural dominance.  The power to decide what "the" story is.  This is at the root of the culture wars too - people saying that "snowflakes" are crying about minor details about our culture and simultaneously complaining about something called "Black History Month" which is simply reflection

2. It's an admission that culture wars are fought by yelling.  So if you believe that, then get ready to be yelled at.  I prefer to discuss and listen....  I empathized with the poor truckers in the convoy to a point... and they yelled and made noise.  
 

It's fine to ridicule something that you think is stupid. IMO there is (almost) a compulsion or irresistible urge  to eradicate all racism that shows signs of going too far. Anti-racism taken to extremes is not non-racism, in that it creates additional problems. And I can give real world examples from lately, for any those of you who do not habla... 

2.
I think the majority of Canadians hate racism, and consider themselves non-racist. Yet racism still exists.

Which for me, raises a deeper question. Why do we associate the black man with crime, for example. The answer is obvious, but the reason why is not. Many criminals are black. That is to say, visible minority. It's easy to equate the person with black skin to the criminals we see on the news at night, or on police most wanted lists. But that does not explain why it happens that way, and the answer, comes back to the fault of government and failure in our society. The real root of crime is poverty, I say. And you can look at cities and see their ghettos, who lives in them? Who lives in Cabbage Town, and the High Rises of Jane and Finch?

You know who.

Among them are also whites, of course. They are just as susceptible to growing up in a ghetto and having to survive. They join the gangs, bro.

...

Government are the ones who make us see it as a race issue, not a poverty issue. That way the finger doesn't point at... them.

[I am Groot]

6 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I think the better question is, what does it matter if they get their "own history month"?  

What is it doing to you?  Is it taking anything from you?  Are they afforded any extraordinary privileges during this month?  Are they allowed to cut in front of you in line?  To exclusively use the left lane of the highway?  Do they get special deals?  

Why does this matter?  

Why does it matter? It matters because it helps propel the narrative of the Left about what a horrifically awful country Canada is and was. It helps further the view that racism and all sorts of phobias (always context-free) are, above all other things, the means to measure a nation's accomplishments. It helps divide Canadians, instill resentment in black Canadians and tries to shame white Canadians. It propels the vandals and intellectual halfwits pulling down statues and substituting black authors for Chaucer, Shakespeare, Dickens, and Poe, and other great authors who happen to be 'dead white males'. It is used to justify the deliberately racist hiring and promotion practices of government and large corporations and the racist legal practices wherein violent felons are given a tweak on the cheek and pat on the head, and sent out onto the streets to murder people because they happen to be Black.

It's all a part and parcel of the building racism in this country brought about by people who despise Capitalism, Western cultural history and the freedoms which underpin democracy.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, I am Groot said:

Why does it matter? It matters because it helps propel the narrative of the Left about what a horrifically awful country Canada is and was.  

Or it could just be a nice thing to do ?   

Live a little...

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Or it could just be a nice thing to do ?   

Trying to shame people is not a nice thing to do when those people have done nothing to be ashamed of. But you do you.

Edited February 10, 2023 by I am Groot

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

It's fine to ridicule something that you think is stupid. IMO there is (almost) a compulsion or irresistible urge  to eradicate all racism that shows signs of going too far. Anti-racism taken to extremes is not non-racism, in that it creates additional problems. And I can give real world examples from lately, for any those of you who do not habla... 

2.
I think the majority of Canadians hate racism, and consider themselves non-racist. Yet racism still exists.

Which for me, raises a deeper question. Why do we associate the black man with crime, for example. The answer is obvious, but the reason why is not. Many criminals are black. That is to say, visible minority. It's easy to equate the person with black skin to the criminals we see on the news at night, or on police most wanted lists. But that does not explain why it happens that way, and the answer, comes back to the fault of government and failure in our society. The real root of crime is poverty, I say. And you can look at cities and see their ghettos, who lives in them? Who lives in Cabbage Town, and the High Rises of Jane and Finch?

You know who.

Among them are also whites, of course. They are just as susceptible to growing up in a ghetto and having to survive. They join the gangs, bro.

...

Government are the ones who make us see it as a race issue, not a poverty issue. That way the finger doesn't point at... them.

It’s fine to say that generally some groups have started out with less on aggregate than other groups due to past injustices, but you have to drill down to individual situations to get into the question of how hard done by someone is.  It’s irresponsible to make statements like ‘“All blacks are hard done by and deserve extra stuff” because clearly many are doing very well.  Colour is one “intersectionality” and it’s a mug’s game to try and tally up someone’s disadvantages to try to ascertain what level of special privileges one should have.  A much better way to approach “equity” is by making the rules non-discriminatory and look at the merits and hardships of every individual.  It helps us to better understand people as unique individuals and to help in reasonable ways.  It seems we can’t help but replace favouritism with favouritism.  That’s really tragic because it recreates division and the frustration of feeling that no matter how effective someone is, merit may not be what counts.  It breeds contempt and rewards features over which people have no control.

Black History Month is a way of giving extra attention to a traditionally marginalized racial group.  I guess we have to start asking at some point whether this sort of showcasing the disadvantaged continues to be necessary.

My big learning is that it’s actually a mentality of dependency that seeks special treatment.  It’s why the Democrats think they own the Black vote, because they have a paternalistic, “Look how I take care of you” mentality that’s infantilizing.

The fully-liberated person doesn’t need special treatment. He walks right in the door like James Brown.  Really. was there a white guy in the world who could dance like him? 

I do think changing attitudes is important.  Let’s not forget that all groups have committed injustices. The Northwest Coast Indigenous kept slaves.  Blacks traded their own people in parts of Africa.  Canada, and yes, America as a whole, was still a better place to be than most places around the world 100 years ago.  Context is everything, which isn’t to say some groups didn’t have a worse deal than others generally in Canada and the US (which had different contexts).  Times have changed and we don’t seem to understand that values are different today. We also tend to throw out the baby with the bath water when it comes to judging the past.  We learn a lot from the past, including real virtues.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Trying to shame people is not a nice thing to do ....

So you hear "Black History Month", and you feel shame?