Is the Federal system in Canada really viable any longer?

[OftenWrong]

30 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Our large geographical area makes things more expensive, not cheaper.

I could accept that excuse if things were equal in performance. We're not even close. Canada's health care has deteriorated from what was once called a model system.

[Aristides]

6 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I could accept that excuse if things were equal in performance. We're not even close. Canada's health care has deteriorated from what was once called a model system.

It is a reality but it is also true that our system has deteriorated.

[blackbird]

Another thing that just came to my attention is:

"OTTAWA — There are concerns at the highest levels of the Canadian Armed Forces that this country won't have access to the same cutting-edge military technology as its closest allies because it is not part of a security pact between Australia, Britain and the United States."

Military concerned by Canada's absence from American-British-Australian security pact (msn.com)

This is a result of the liberal pacifist ideology that dominates the federal government.  

[myata]

9 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

In nearly every measure Canada is ranked near the top of the world.

Sure one can invent any number of fuzzy rankings by dubious scales and obscure gauges. It would only be the same, as already stated: running away from the reality into artificial created one. Out of a buzzibillion, no just unlimited bottomless jar of ratings pick a few, a hundred that place you near the top and be happy. But thanks, very telling that in place of real, physical and palpable achievements and improvements you're flying ratings. Not much else to show, eh?

Fixing public healthcare; eliminating child poverty; providing access to basic necessities everywhere in the country; improving transparency and accountability of governments

Those are the problems being talked about for decades. None has been solved, or even approached to the solution. New ones are appearing: affordability of housing; costs of post-secondary education; RCMP and the army. In this century, we do not have working and reliable options to file a tax return, in a G7 country. Mobile rates are a wonder (joke) of the world.

Can you still solve complex problems in reality? Or are you great mostly or only already, in talking?

Edited January 16, 2023 by myata

[Tony Hladun]

These conversations, as normal, wander all over the place.  To me the main point is Canada is going backwards in just about every area.  In our obsession to make everyone equal with programs like Equalization we are moving to the lowest common denominator.  If we made everyone in the world equal then we would all be poor. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Tony Hladun said:

1.  To me the main point is Canada is going backwards in just about every area.  In our obsession to make everyone equal with programs like Equalization we are moving to the lowest common denominator.  If we made everyone in the world equal then we would all be poor. 

1. I don't think 'Equalization' is about making everyone equal.  Maybe you misunderstand it.

Also - the next most equal country to us is Switzerland.  Also more equal than us are France, Germany and the Scandanavian countries.

So, I don't think you're right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

[Moonbox]

Considering the last 15-20 years has seen the middle class shrink and income inequality rise substantially in Canada, that whole line of reasoning is silly.  

[blackbird]

One of the main ideologies of the federal Liberals (and NDP) is that government can do things best.  Since Trudeau was elected in 2015, he has increased the size of the federal civil service by about 25% or increased it by about 75,000 employees.  We now have a very large federal civil service.  It also seems like the voters do not really have any say in it.  The federal system is really out of control.   Perhaps this is one of the key reasons why the health care system is in a crisis.  It is run by bureaucracy.

Five major problems with bureaucracy are outlined in this article.

The first point is:

quote

1. Rigidity Stampedes Creativity:

The whole bureaucratic system is formed around rigid rules and regulations. This excessive form of rigid structures stampedes creativity and restricts growth. In all types of officialdom there is always adamant, inflexible and unaccommodating. Furthermore, bureaucracy requires everything to follow a given system, which diminishes any chances of creativity and out-of-the-box solutions.

With the modern-world changing fast and evolving in light of new challenges, this rigidity of bureaucracy is a big problem for any organization or government.   unquote

Five Problems With Bureaucracy | WallStreetWindow.com

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by blackbird

[Tony Hladun]

15 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Considering the last 15-20 years has seen the middle class shrink and income inequality rise substantially in Canada, that whole line of reasoning is silly.  

You misunderstand.  It's not the top 10% to the lowest 10% I'm talking about (inequality) but it's the average (equality...if everyone were equal) that I'm referring to. 

[TreeBeard]

30 minutes ago, Tony Hladun said:

You misunderstand.  It's not the top 10% to the lowest 10% I'm talking about (inequality) but it's the average (equality...if everyone were equal) that I'm referring to. 

Do you have an article, or research on what you’re talking about?   This isn’t the most coherent post. 
 

[TreeBeard]

44 minutes ago, blackbird said:

One of the main ideologies of the federal Liberals (and NDP) is that government can do things best.  Since Trudeau was elected in 2015, he has increased the size of the federal civil servants by about 25% or increased it by about 75,000 employees.  We now have a very large federal civil service.  It also seems like the voters do not really have any say in it.  The federal system is really out of control.   Perhaps this is one of the key reasons why the health care system is in a crisis.  It is run by bureaucracy.

Some of the problems with bureaucracy are outlined in this article.

Five major problems with bureaucracy are outlined in this article.

The first point is:

quote

1. Rigidity Stampedes Creativity:

The whole bureaucratic system is formed around rigid rules and regulations. This excessive form of rigid structures stampedes creativity and restricts growth. In all types of officialdom there is always adamant, inflexible and unaccommodating. Furthermore, bureaucracy requires everything to follow a given system, which diminishes any chances of creativity and out-of-the-box solutions.

With the modern-world changing fast and evolving in light of new challenges, this rigidity of bureaucracy is a big problem for any organization or government.   unquote

Five Problems With Bureaucracy | WallStreetWindow.com

 

So these are just grievances from folks who don’t like Trudeau, and not something inherently wrong with the country?   I thought so…. 

[blackbird]

 

The federal Liberals and NDP are big believers in bureaucracy.  Big government is the solution to all problems in their thinking. 

"Bureaucracy begats bureaucracy, building its own demand and transforming people into managers designed to meet bureaucratic needs.

A bureaucracy designed to serve patients ends up serving its creators instead and protects those who work inside.

Economist William Niskanen offered a definition of bureaucracies in his book “Bureaucracy and Representative Government.” Roughly speaking, he says, 1) bureaucracies consist of people who do not earn their income from what is left over after costs are subtracted from revenues, and 2) bureaucratic revenue does not come from the sale of output per unit rate.

Many people refuse to discuss bureaucrats or bureaucracy for fear of causing offence. The managerial and chattering classes see such talk as impolite, ill-defined, or perhaps unhinged. But forcing a word out of fashion — or relabelling it as management or administration — does not remove the reality it describes.

We need bureaucracy, just like we need surgery. Surgery saves lives when nothing else will do. At the same time, there is nothing that surgery — or bureaucracy — cannot make worse."

There is nothing bureaucracy cannot make worse | TheSpec.com

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by blackbird

[myata]

13 hours ago, blackbird said:

We need bureaucracy, just like we need surgery.

I don't think the analogy is well thought through and adequate. It needs to be discussed and proven rigorously that an alternative flat organization of locally coordinated, performance-driven and standard enforced units wouldn't or couldn't be more effective and efficient than a centralized and monolithic bureaucracy. A bureaucracy left to itself will only grow and consume ever more resources with ever less useful output. The cause is simple: it's cheaper in all senses for a bureaucracy to replicate itself than to change. So any challenge, any new problem would cause another office, another ombudsman, another layer to appear.  Did you notice that this is exactly what we're doing? A problem? Easy! Let's set up an office and throw a few millions at it. There isn't really a good exit from here. One day, it could just grind to a halt and we haven't, thought nor created any other options.

So there are cases where surgery cannot be avoided because there's no other known treatments. But to say that some problems can only be solved with a bureaucracy... not obvious to me.

Edited January 17, 2023 by myata

[August1991]

On 1/15/2023 at 3:49 PM, myata said:

Most unaffordable housing, worst public healthcare system, worst corporate tax system, highest cellphone rates, lowest fuel efficiency: are all real measurable things.

A bunch of feel-goodie fuzzy stuff about progress and democracy. A full democracy? Only because those making these ratings don't understand how Canada works.

''''

Entirely agree.

[blackbird]

Probably one of the biggest reasons to recently surface as to why federalism as we know it is a failure is Trudeau's new policy called "just transition".  This has the potential to destroy the energy industry in Canada and ruin the lives of millions of Canadians.  The government of Alberta is right to be alarmed.  This could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

"Natural Resources bureaucrats estimate upwards of 2.7 million workers — about 14 per cent of the entire Canadian workforce — will have their jobs disrupted to one extent or another. There will be “significant labour market disruptions” in nearly all sectors.

“We expect that larger scale transformation will take place in agriculture (about 292,000 workers or 1.5 per cent of Canada’s employment),” the memo continues, “energy (about 202,000 workers or one per cent of Canada’s employment), manufacturing (about 193,000 workers or one per cent of Canada’s employment), building (about 1.4 million workers or seven per cent of Canada’s employment) and transportation sectors (about 642,000 workers or three per cent of Canada’s employment).

Not everyone in those sectors will lose their job or have to pull up stakes (and their families) and move across the country when the Liberals shut down Alberta’s largest industry."

GUNTER: Don't believe promises of 'well-paying jobs' from Trudeau's Just Transition plan (msn.com)

[August1991]

12 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Probably one of the biggest reasons to recently surface as to why federalism as we know it is a failure is Trudeau's new policy called "just transition".  This has the potential to destroy the energy industry in Canada...

Trudeau Snr or Trudeau Jnr?

=====

Around the world, we in Canada - we Canadians - have a reputation for getting along.

Edited January 17, 2023 by August1991

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

why federalism as we know it is a failure is Trudeau's new policy

The country is a failure because you don’t like Trudeau.  Got it. 
 

I can see beyond a few years of a government I may not like or agree with and not jump to the immediate conclusion that the sky is falling.  

[August1991]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

The country is a failure because you don’t like Trudeau.  Got it. 

Don't like Trudeau?

Many Canadians don't speak French. 

You misunderstand Canada.

===

We are a Federal State. Education, for example,  is a jurisdiction of the province.

,

 

[TreeBeard]

Just now, August1991 said:

Don't like Trudeau?

Many Canadians don't speak French. 

You misunderstand Canada.

===

We are a Federal State. Education, for example,  is a jurisdiction of the province.

,

 

Backwards riddles.  You misunderstand how to use sentences.  Try again?

[August1991]

We Canadians have a remarkable way to get along.

Pearson did this in 1956.

=====

Suez 1956 and Ukraine 2022

5 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Backwards riddles.  You misunderstand how to use sentences.  Try again?

 

[TreeBeard]

Just now, August1991 said:

We Canadians have a remarkable way to get along.

Pearson did this in 1956.

=====

Suez 1956 and Ukraine 2022

 

Lyrics from a Billy Joel song?

[Moonlight Graham]

On 1/14/2023 at 12:02 PM, TreeBeard said:

Isn’t this provincial jurisdiction?   You would blame the Feds for bad weather.  

It is but with the feds funding healthcare and education more and more (pharmacare, daycare, dental care) it means its more complicated than that, and they can blame each other when it goes wrong and when the going gets tough nobody will want to fund what needs to be funded.

What is happening with the healthcare system can be compared to the Ottawa convoy.  Nobody at any level of government wants to take responsibility so they are dithering and arguing and passing blame while the problem gets worse and worse at a time when leadership is desperately needed.

A real leader is someone who is willing to take the hits in order to do what need to be done, instead of being scared of responsibility.  It doesn't look like we have a lot of leaders in this country, just a lot of cowards more worried about polling numbers than people.

[Moonlight Graham]

9 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Backwards riddles.  You misunderstand how to use sentences.  Try again?

This is how he talks LOL.

[myata]

7 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

The country is a failure because you don’t like Trudeau.  Got it. 

Canada federal system is pretty much a quick and minimal adaptation of a colonial administration: a huge bureaucracy balancing mostly fiscal matters between geographically diverse populations. A democracy per se, will, involvement and control by the citizens is not in the picture, hasn't been from day one.

Now, in two centuries the environment has changed, dramatically. And outdated system devoid of any ability of meaningful change and adaptation is struggling to keep up. At first it will be rising costs for minimal improvement. Then, there will be a crisis of public administrations. All is perfectly predictable and we're heading straight that way. The count of essential problems grows by decade. The number of solved ones, still at zero.

And at last, facing a difficult challenge it's easier for some of us to assign a culprit, rather than seek solutions. One is quick and easy the other, uncertain. The problem is not caused by Trudeau; but he's certainly a part and contributor to a growing problem. That we have not, never thought of nor created any instruments of addressing.

[-TSS-]

When I was a kid I was wondering why all those Spanish-speaking countries in South- and Central-America are different countries as they are all Spanish-speaking anyway. Of course later on I learned that despite sharing the language there are huge cultural differences and a huge Spanish-speaking Estados Unidos just wouldn't work.