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Alberta Sovereignty Act


Tony Hladun

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I don't think that all the provinces are a creation of the federal government.  B.C. for instance was a British Colony.  They joined confederation in 1871, four years after confederation began or Canada was formed.  They joined under the agreement of the division of powers with the province having jurisdiction over its natural resources and other things.  Canada is a confederation with a division of powers between the provinces and the federal government.  There is nothing that says the federal government can unilaterally change that constitutional agreement or transfer provincial powers to the federal government.  Any changes to the constitution must be by the agreed upon formula.  The withdrawal of a province from the confederation is an unknown matter.  Quebec came the closest to starting that process and the vote to separate was very narrowly defeated if 50% was the deciding number.  But that would be the beginning of the process and I am not sure how it would work out.  The separatists might not get all the land they think they could have.  The geographic area of Quebec was surrendered to the British crown in 1759 or 63.  Perhaps that is why the Bloc Quebecois don't want to swear allegiance to the King.  Prior to 1867 the land was part of British North America and under the jurisdiction of the British monarchy.  I am not sure the forming of Canada changed that because Canada is still a constitutional monarchy.  I would not be too anxious to abolish the monarchy because that could make it easier for a province to say they are not under the authority of the crown.

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True, increasing shipping out of Vancouver is a dumb and dangerous idea, but that pipe goes to the refineries in Washington anyways. Always did, always will. Who else is going to buy it? Asia's not set up to deal with heavy oil, they aren't going to build just to handle it.
And you're exactly backwards, Northern Gateway was the least environmentally justified route possible. No previous infrastructure, virgin territory, risk the Skeena river? Are you kidding?
100% of the town councils and native bands on the route were against it, including Kitimat, the only place that would get any permanent benefit at all.

Give up pretending BC got benefits and it was good environmentally sound. It's over and done, never to be revived. It would've got more support if everyone hadn't easily seen past the shallow lies Enbridge presented in public. Even all those bribes tossed out hurt them in the end.

Edited by herbie
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38 minutes ago, herbie said:

True, increasing shipping out of Vancouver is a dumb and dangerous idea, but that pipe goes to the refineries in Washington anyways. Always did, always will. Who else is going to buy it? Asia's not set up to deal with heavy oil, they aren't going to build just to handle it.
And you're exactly backwards, Northern Gateway was the least environmentally justified route possible. No previous infrastructure, virgin territory, risk the Skeena river? Are you kidding?
100% of the town councils and native bands on the route were against it, including Kitimat, the only place that would get any permanent benefit at all.

Give up pretending BC got benefits and it was good environmentally sound. It's over and done, never to be revived. It would've got more support if everyone hadn't easily seen past the shallow lies Enbridge presented in public. Even all those bribes tossed out hurt them in the end.

We export heavy oil to the US because they have refineries that were originally set up for Venezuelan heavy oil so they want it.  Alberta can export light light as well.  So you're wrong on that account.

This Financial Post article contradicts your indegenous claim. https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/we-are-very-disappointed-loss-of-northern-gateway-devastating-for-many-first-nations-chiefs-say  Indigenous peoples are beginning to realise that real local development is better than what they're getting from Victoria.  Canada was/is a very easy target for anti-fossil fuel lobbies.  If they tried that stunt with the other big oil producers the US, Russia or Saudi Arabia they wouldn't get very far.  If there were payoffs we should look at the anti-pipeline money first.

The pipeline route follows a highway and rail track and  is not "virgin territory". 

You may have a different opinion but you play very loose with the facts.

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Only I don't cuz I've lived here for 35 years. None of the sitting Chiefs or Councils at the time supported it.

Just like now when a couple "Hereditary Chiefs" oppose the LNG, but all the elected, sitting ones do. You think the Financial Post is going to give the whole story? You must believe the Fraser Institute as gospel or something.

Just as you conveniently left out that there was no intent to send light oil thru Northern Gateway. Or that it required a 2nd pipe to send dilutent back to the oil fields so they could even pump the heavy oil, and that was even more dangerous to the environment should it leak.

Over and done, too late to start now. Look at doing something instead of what might have been.

Quit the sovereignty bullshit and get with it, if you don't like federal carbon tax, collect your own. They don't care if you give every penny back to Albertans as rebates or fix your hospitals and build your own damn refinery. You're still complaining when there's always been an option on the table. Jeez, collect it and piddle it away studying bridges and tunnels to nowhere like BC does. Build a Edmonton-Calgary Skytrain, whatever you want. You can already decide how to use the money but seem to prefer nothing but Ottawa bashing.

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On 12/2/2022 at 7:31 AM, Tony Hladun said:

  I'm an Albertan and I do feel that Ottawa plays fast and loose with what are provincial responsibilities. 

I agree with this statement.

Unfortunately I consider your province a rogue province that has zero understanding of the environmental problems we face, zero desire to address such problems and zero qualms bullying other provinces and the federal government.

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7 hours ago, Tony Hladun said:

TMX will be a disaster waiting to happen.  ............

The Northern Gateway line (but to Prince Rupert) is the one that made engineering and environmental sense.  .......

Sadly BC might get what they want but at a huge cost.  If BC had thought about it they could have benefited economically and environmentally ............

If you had any experience and sense you would have known that each and every pipeline is a disaster and 100% of what flows through it is spilled, one way or another at different stages and in different forms.

Keep all pipelines to yourself; run them through the watershed you drink water from , take a swim in or catch fish to eat.

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To the reader.  I think that this thread has sufficiently demonstrated that with some people there is no interest in working with Alberta and there is a high level of hate.  They have reaffirmed that they're interested in knifing Alberta in the back as I said at the start.  That is why we need the ASA.  Let's just watch Europe this winter because it will show what happens when you substitute dreams for facts.  Enough said on my part.   

Edited by Tony Hladun
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1 hour ago, Tony Hladun said:

To the reader.  I think that this thread has sufficiently demonstrated that with some people there is no interest in working with Alberta and there is a high level of hate.  They have reaffirmed that they're interested in knifing Alberta in the back as I said at the start.  That is why we need the ASA.  Let's just watch Europe this winter because it will show what happens when you substitute dreams for facts.  Enough said on my part.   

Given that Alberta regularly talks about breaking up Canada, I'd say the "hate" (hyperbole) goes both ways.

In any case, disagreement does not equal hate: to say so reveals your emotional bias.

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2 hours ago, Tony Hladun said:

To the reader.  I think that this thread has sufficiently demonstrated that with some people there is no interest in working with Alberta and there is a high level of hate.

As evidenced by the guy throwing grenades in the OP?

I have separatist leanings that are also rooted in frustration with Ottawa and how we govern ourselves, mostly the latter. I certainly have no intention of working with Ottawa to prevent Alberta's separation I simply won't be putting any effort into joining you.

What do you mean a high level of hate or is that just your own consuming you?  Take a step back and let it go man it's not worth it.  

 

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On 12/3/2022 at 3:57 PM, herbie said:

Why the hell would Northern BC wish to separate?

....

Decades ago, on this very forum, I asked why the Vancouver Island federal seats were so weird.

I recall a poster responded, I paraphrase: "It's a mix of tree-huggers and lumber people."

Little did I know about our world's future.

 

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23 hours ago, Tony Hladun said:

  Let's just watch Europe this winter because it will show what happens when you substitute dreams for facts.  Enough said on my part.   

The implication here is that Alberta has oil or petroleum products. That is not the case. The owners of the corporations have the rights purchased to the oil.

For some reason people choose to make oil part of their identity, not sure why.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

The implication here is that Alberta has oil or petroleum products. That is not the case. The owners of the corporations have the rights purchased to the oil.

For some reason people choose to make oil part of their identity, not sure why.

CTV News

"Non-renewable resource revenue is forecast at $28.1 billion in the 2022-23 fiscal year. That's a record-setting number, far surpassing the previous high of $16.2 billion in 2021-22. It comes on the heels of oil prices in the US$100-a-barrel range during the first quarter update."

That's nearly half of the Provincial Budget.  That's why oil is important to us.  You're clutching at straws, come up with something better.

Edited by Tony Hladun
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What Alberta should be doing is using their oil revenue to enhance their infrastructure and diversify their economy.  Alas, they probably won't, and in 20 years they'll be left behind when the oil royalties really start falling.  

 

 

Edited by Moonbox
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Shipping out of Vancouver is much safer than the Northern Gateway. In winter it would be next to impossible to deal with a spill in that terrain with little access. There are three US refineries within spitting distance of the border that have had tankers supplying them with Alaskan oil since the seventies. Tanker traffic in Georgia Strait would be miniscule compared to places like the Malacca St. Straight of Hormuz, Suez and the English Channel.

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Oil is the base of Alberta's economy. The idea that they should "diversify" is easy to say...hard to do. Especially knowing that nothing else provides the same "bang for the buck".

Those who harp about Alberta "diversifying", have little to no interest in financial well being. All they care about is their fear-porn.

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4 hours ago, Tony Hladun said:

Oil is part of our identity and now I've told you why.  What's the spin now?

Your identity looks like a knife pointed at mine.

Why not refine your oil at home and ship added value product through Trans-mountain, instead of sludge, to a market that needs needs refined products?

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Yeah just saw the prices and shortages of meat and bread at the grocery store.

I guess all the ranches and farms in Alberta really have been dug up looking for oil sands, eh?

- oh wait. I was supposed to believe when gas was $2.50/L that the oil in Alberta was used up because we couldn't get Russian oil just months ago....

I love how the ones who always quoting other's "fear" are the ones absolutely scared shit-less about any change at all in anything.

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OK, I am afraid and angry because you're spending all your time vilifying fossil fuels and Alberta by association but you don't have an alternative.  I challenge you to come up with something better now, not hopes and dreams of some magic battery that will appear in the future or Trudeau's hydrogen when the Germans need natural gas now.  I know you'll come back with all the things that might, could, possibly, someday happen but that's just not good enough.  What you're offering is poverty and pain.

Here's something I wrote a while ago.   The Persians invented the windmill in about 600 AD.  Then for about 1,000 years, until the dawn of the industrial revolution, the earth used green wind and wood energy; no fossil fuels.  On the evolutionary scale humans were just as intelligent then as they are today so they could have invented many things.  Yet at the end of that period the earth could support a population of only about 600 million people mostly struggling to survive.  The economy was agricultural with most of the labour energy supplied by serfdom and slavery.  Not a glowing achievement for the green economy.

 

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