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Alberta Sovereignty Act


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Here we go.  What's your thoughts on the ASA?  I'm an Albertan and I do feel that Ottawa plays fast and loose with what are provincial responsibilities.  As an example, Canada is a country of energy consumers and energy producers (we are the 4th largest oil producer in the world).  Ontario and Quebec, where the population is, are energy consumers so Ottawa is very consumer oriented.  But resource development is a Provincial responsibility but by CO2 regulation and no-pipelines Ottawa tries to choke that industry which is Canada's largest net exporter.

So Notley tried to cozy and Kenney wrote letter's and both got nowhere, but DS, as she says, is trying something different.  If Ottawa oversteps its Constitutional bounds or if it targets Alberta with legislation it does make sense for Alberta to fight back.  Quebec does it with not-withstanding all the time.  Now to negotiate with Ottawa you need a process which the ASA lays out in law.  So far it seems the biggest criticism is that the Alberta Cabinet is given the power to act, but how else would you do it?  It sounds like the critics want everyone in Alberta, at a given time, to shout "Ottawa is a bad boy!".  Now where would that get us.

So guys pull those those pins and throw those grenades. 

Edited by Tony Hladun
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1 hour ago, Tony Hladun said:

Here we go.  What's your thoughts on the ASA?  I'm an Albertan and I do feel that Ottawa plays fast and loose with what are provincial responsibilities.  As an example, Canada is a country of energy consumers and energy producers (we are the 4th largest oil producer in the world).  Ontario and Quebec, where the population is, are energy consumers so Ottawa is very consumer oriented.  But resource development is a Provincial responsibility but by CO2 regulation and no-pipelines Ottawa tries to choke that industry which is Canada's largest net exporter.

So Notley tried to cozy and Kenney wrote letter's and both got nowhere, but DS, as she says, is trying something different.  If Ottawa oversteps its Constitutional bounds or if it targets Alberta with legislation it does make sense for Alberta to fight back.  Quebec does it with not-withstanding all the time.  Now to negotiate with Ottawa you need a process which the ASA lays out in law.  So far it seems the biggest criticism is that the Alberta Cabinet is given the power to act, but how else would you do it?  It sounds like the critics want everyone in Alberta, at a given time, to shout "Ottawa is a bad boy!".  Now where would that get us.

So guys pull those those pins and throw those grenades. 

You are correct.  The ASA seems like a very good idea.  I see the mainstream media like the CBC and CTV have their liberal-controlled pundits and Marist-leaning university professors and "constitutional experts" on the news and political programs constantly trying to attack the ASA. The CBC and CTV are the biggest propaganda tools of the federal liberals.  While the CBC and CTV have access to a large swath of the population, there is no way that opposing views of Canadians and Albertans can express their opinions except on social media which is very limited and the Liberal-NDP coalition want to control social media.

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2 hours ago, Tony Hladun said:

So guys pull those those pins and throw those grenades. 

Speaking as a hard-boiled left-coaster I wish Albertans would finally once and for all separate so we'd be that much closer to becoming Cascadians.  Maybe you guys could line up north and south as well with the Red States to the south of you.

Biogeographical boundaries make a lot more sense than political boundaries especially from an ecological perspective and even more so from the management of natural resource like salmon.  The political boundaries bisecting salmon habitat and range areas are a perfect example of where a political boundary makes a more comprehensive ecosystem management regime difficult if not impossible.

Edited by eyeball
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13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Speaking as a hard-boiled left-coaster I wish Albertans would finally once and for all separate so we'd be that much closer to becoming Cascadians.  Maybe you guys could line up north and south as well with the Red States to the south of you.

Biogeographical boundaries make a lot more sense than political boundaries especially from an ecological perspective and even more so from the management of natural resource like salmon.  The political boundaries bisecting salmon habitat and range areas are a perfect example of where a political boundary makes a more comprehensive ecosystem management regime difficult if not impossible.

Breaking up the country would allow us to ditch the communist eco-fascists in BC.  ?

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Speaking as a hard-boiled left-coaster I wish Albertans would finally once and for all separate so we'd be that much closer to becoming Cascadians.  Maybe you guys could line up north and south as well with the Red States to the south of you.

Biogeographical boundaries make a lot more sense than political boundaries especially from an ecological perspective and even more so from the management of natural resource like salmon.  The political boundaries bisecting salmon habitat and range areas are a perfect example of where a political boundary makes a more comprehensive ecosystem management regime difficult if not impossible.

You're right that north-south alliances would be better but I don't think Quebec and Ontario would ever agree and after Quebec tried the legislation is stacked to prevent separation.  Alberta could survive on it's resources but what can't happen is that, every time we square off with Ottawa, BC stabs us in the back.  BC has to help and it's never done so in the past. 

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1 hour ago, Tony Hladun said:

Alberta could survive on it's resources but what can't happen is that, every time we square off with Ottawa, BC stabs us in the back. 

How so?

Quote

BC has to help and it's never done so in the past.

BC didn't have much good to say about the Vancouver Island Liberation Organization either. Get in line I guess.

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6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

How so?

BC didn't have much good to say about the Vancouver Island Liberation Organization either. Get in line I guess.

Surely you can't miss the fact that BC has been entirely unhelpful for getting Alberta oil to market, and has pretty much held Alberta hostage on pipeline negotiations.  

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7 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Surely you can't miss the fact that BC has been entirely unhelpful for getting Alberta oil to market, and has pretty much held Alberta hostage on pipeline negotiations.  

We're almost finished with twinning the Trans Mountain pipeline which will double Alberta's output thru BC.

Keep on negotiating I guess.

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43 minutes ago, eyeball said:

How so?

BC didn't have much good to say about the Vancouver Island Liberation Organization either. Get in line I guess.

Moonbox has already said it.  Trans Mountain may be nearing completion but BC has made it a horror show throughout.  Let's just wait and see what happens when tankers sail through Vancouver harbour.  BC's lack of cooperation has resulted in an undersized line being built to the worst location for a tanker terminal.  What Alberta (and Sask and Manitoba) need is a utility corridor to Prince Rupert.  BC has never sorted out indigenous land claims so every project is an endless battle.  Let's see where the current LNG project goes.  In summary, BC has to realise that the world uses fossil fuels and that Western Canada is a global producer of these.  Western Canada also needs ocean access for agricultural, mineral and wood products.  BC could actually economically and environmentally  benefit from sensible development but it repeatedly chooses not to do so. 

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1 minute ago, Tony Hladun said:

Moonbox has already said it.  Trans Mountain may be nearing completion but BC has made it a horror show throughout. 

That's probably because just about every big construction project in BC has been a horror show, especially for salmon and people who depend on them. If Ottawa treated your oil the way it's treated BC's salmon you people would have separated decades and decades ago.  But then BC's salmon really aren't BC's to manage, in fact they're more your's than our's.

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Let's just wait and see what happens when tankers sail through Vancouver harbour.  BC's lack of cooperation has resulted in an undersized line being built to the worst location for a tanker terminal.

Yeah, I can't imagine a handier place to put up a blockade.

Quote

What Alberta (and Sask and Manitoba) need is a utility corridor to Prince Rupert.  BC has never sorted out indigenous land claims so every project is an endless battle. 

That's not just BC's business to sort out it's also Canada's, your's in other words.  Is it just me or do people who are the most likely to hype pipelines amongst the first to pooh pooh negotiating land claims?

Quote

Let's see where the current LNG project goes.  In summary, BC has to realise that the world uses fossil fuels and that Western Canada is a global producer of these.  Western Canada also needs ocean access for agricultural, mineral and wood products.  BC could actually economically and environmentally  benefit from sensible development but it repeatedly chooses not to do so. 

Like I said every mega-project ever undertaken in BC resulted in the destruction of salmon habitat, the loss of salmon and impacting the livelihoods of people who depend on them.  Every single project...bar none. 

It should come as no surprise to anyone that salmon are so central to the lives of so many of the people standing in the way of pipeline projects.

Alberta should try harder to send Canada's oil South.

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Eyeball, you call it salmon but it's still a knife in our back.  Destroying Alberta will have OPEC replace our production in minutes and it won't solve your problem in the least.  Actually China will just burn more coal and global warming will get worse.  Be positive, let's work together to come up with solutions that work for you, salmon and Alberta.  You joke about tankers in Vancouver harbour but it's a real problem and all you can think about is blockades.

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Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.

every single word, entire content of 3 paragraph reply highlighted, no swear words in post, only 1d10t on restricted list.

So much for "free speech" principles, eh?

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2 hours ago, herbie said:

Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.

every single word, entire content of 3 paragraph reply highlighted, no swear words in post, only 1d10t on restricted list.

So much for "free speech" principles, eh?

What are you talking about???

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5 hours ago, Tony Hladun said:

Eyeball, you call it salmon but it's still a knife in our back.  Destroying Alberta will have OPEC replace our production in minutes and it won't solve your problem in the least.  Actually China will just burn more coal and global warming will get worse.  Be positive, let's work together to come up with solutions that work for you, salmon and Alberta.  You joke about tankers in Vancouver harbour but it's a real problem and all you can think about is blockades.

I've got a bunch of knife scars in my back too.  I know more tankers are a problem and I won't be joking about blockading if sending them to China is the intent. The last thing we need compounding efforts to curb climate change is more powerful enabled dictatorships.

The best solution for me and salmon is sending more pipelines south. If it ends up in China anyway at least it won't be so directly on my conscience.

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I will try again:

Nobody is out to destroy Alberta, except maybe Danielle Smith.

For those Albertans that stubbornly refuse to open their eyes and see, there's this World Climate Crisis going on an everyone, everywhere is reducing the use of fossil fuels, whether you like it or not.
If you'd accepted the five conditions for pipelines Christie Clark offered a decade ago, you'd be in the position to start hunting for customers for the wrong product in about 2 more years.

If you're still thinking of oil pipelines now, then you're the guy who toured Henry Ford's assembly line and then went home to sink all his money into a buggy whip factory.

You think dumping on BC when we buy all the oil you want to send us is going to help? There's a huge market in the Lower Mainland you could take away from the Americans if you'd refine it instead of them.

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Herbie,

Here are some facts.

Global oil consumption https://www.statista.com/statistics/271823/daily-global-crude-oil-demand-since-2006/  Oil consumption is increasing, not decreasing.

Alberta has installed 4.7 GW of wind and solar and just about shut down coal.  As I write this 0.062 GW of wind/solar generation is online and the AESO has been posting alerts on capacity shortage available.  http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market/Reports/CSDReportServlet  Yes there is climate change but the way we're dealing with it is a joke and is putting us in great peril.

The worse error you make is that Ottawa really is out to destroy the fossil fuel industry.  If that happens we will buy oil with a 60 cent dollar (just look at Australia today and our dollar was 62 cents before the oil sands expanded).  Then you'll see what the pain of inflation is really like.

But we're way, way off topic.

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I think that she's on the right track.

=====

Iceland is a small rich country, sustainable for millenia.

Alberta and northern BC could be a country, access to the sea.

====

This current Canada is not permanent. Our flag dates from 1965, Liberal colours.

Our constitution dates from 1867 - sort of.

But the rocks and trees of this place will remain whatever these politicians do.

 

 

 

 

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On 12/2/2022 at 11:14 AM, Tony Hladun said:

You're right that north-south alliances would be better but I don't think Quebec and Ontario would ever agree and after Quebec tried the legislation is stacked to prevent separation.  Alberta could survive on it's resources but what can't happen is that, every time we square off with Ottawa, BC stabs us in the back.  BC has to help and it's never done so in the past. 

Not all of in B.C. are Socialist or Liberals.  Some are Conservative but we are outnumbered right now by NDP and Liberals who changed their name to B.C. United Party recently.

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17 hours ago, blackbird said:

Not all of in B.C. are Socialist or Liberals.  Some are Conservative but we are outnumbered right now by NDP and Liberals who changed their name to B.C. United Party recently.

I hear what you're saying, particularly if you get out of Vancouver and Victoria.  Even in Alberta Calgary and Edmonton are swinging to the left.  If the four Western Provinces could stand together they could do a lot to either get a better deal from Ottawa or as a separate country.  With a GDP of around $900 billion (CDN) that would make us about number 20 in the world (Switzerland or Argentina).  But BC just won't play along...

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