Conservative Leadership September 10th

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think that in 10 years, his advisors and team will be more famous than him.  Given the major trifecta of challenges with Trump, Covid and the Ukraine War he has a lot to deal with for someone without qualifications.  

I maintain that he, and Doug Ford, had the basic wisdom to recognize that they are the face of their advisors.  And it's lucky for us too.

I was saying exactly that on Friday to a friend at hockey.  

With Trudeau as PM I was terrified when Trump was elected.  I was not sure he had the good sense to keep his mouth shut and not try to score cheap political points poking that big orange pig.  Surprisingly, he mostly did aside from a few gaffes.  

Doug Ford was another welcome surprise.  At the start of COVID he was the most articulate and most forthcoming of pretty much all of Canada's federal and provincial leaders.  The messaging got confusing as time went on but he did a better job than Trudeau I would say overall. 

Listening to people smarter than you is type of intelligence in itself.  

[Moonbox]

59 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I wasn’t a Trump supporter but it’s obvious that the world was a better place under Trump than it is now.  There were no wars and he had the respect of Putin and leaders that are posing a direct threat to Western Europe.

The world was much worse off after Trump.  World leaders didn't respect him.  They feared his erratic behavior, his unhinged speeches and his threats.  The division that Trump sowed with not only in the USA but also among his allies is one of the key reasons that Putin was emboldened to attack. Trump set trust in the USA back decades and Putin saw division (and therefore weakness) in NATO.  

59 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Iran is now threatening the US in Iraq as Biden tries to hammer out another nuclear deal.

Because Trump spitefully decided to cancel the last one for no good reason.  

59 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

China is looming over Taiwan.  

China has been looming over Taiwan for as long as I've been alive.  

59 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

NATO is getting embroiled in Ukraine without a clear sense of direction when there can only be a political solution there.

The Ukraine war, yeah - the one that Trump's buddy Putin started.  

59 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 If they and their supporters didn’t push back against government, I’m not sure the provinces would’ve removed mandates.

I'd argue the freedom convoy had absolutely nothing to do with it, considering how little support they had.  Health trends led to the mandates being lifted.  

[Moonbox]

7 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Trump was the best POTUS since Reagan

and that's all we need to know about what you have to offer the debate.  

[Michael Hardner]

29 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

 

Listening to people smarter than you is type of intelligence in itself.  

It's Wisdom... far more important than intelligence IMO

[Michael Hardner]

38 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

  unless I'd taken your particular brand of horse shit to task, you'd never have corrected yourself.

Yeah... not my fault you were offended.  Skilled Immigrants are Immigrants btw...

[Nefarious Banana]

14 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

 . . . . and that's all we need to know about what you have to offer the debate.  

The prancing dipshit has your and Michael's vote . . . . . why bother/worry about a Conservative leadership race?

 

[Moonbox]

6 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

The prancing dipshit has your and Michael's vote . . . . . why bother/worry about a Conservative leadership race?

I don't want to vote for him.  I...sort of agree with your assessment of him, despite your inability to articulate like an adult.  Canada can surely do better than Preston Manning 2.0 though.    

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

  why bother/worry about a Conservative leadership race?

Answer: Because you are a 'conservative' who wants to be taken seriously ?

[Nationalist]

57 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yeah... not my fault you were offended.  Skilled Immigrants are Immigrants btw...

Good lord...Yes Mikie...they are both immigrants. One's with a use that benefit our society and one's who don't. But that's not really what this is about, is it. This is about whether or not Poilievre thinks speeding up the time for trained immigrants to get Canadian credentials is a "good" thing, which he does.

Perhaps I need to remind you of something...

Quote

How come nobody has talked about Poilievre's plan to fast-track immigrants ?

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/poilievre-promises-to-speed-up-wait-times-for-approving-foreign-credentials/wcm/bad2e723-7228-4bba-a2fe-bf5bd831700d

 

Seems to me that his base would just HATE this.  But he's an economist so it actually makes sense.  If you are hardcore social-rightie you may have to bite the bullet and vote for the black lady, sorry.

Not only have you made a vain attempt to chop Poilevre's position to change its meaning, but you go on to back-handedly call his supporters "racist". THE EVIL RACE CARD.

You fit the Libbie mould so well Mikie.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Nationalist

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

 Perhaps I need to remind you of something...

Yes, let's spend many posts talking about how you got me to concede my lack of clarity.  That's probably the best way to get you to feel good.

 

The worst way, would be to ask your take on fast tracking skilled immigrants... again.

Does Peter Pepperlips still have your vote?

[West]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

and that's all we need to know about what you have to offer the debate.  

Trump is a big meanie

[Yzermandius19]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

and that's all we need to know about what you have to offer the debate.  

all you have to offer is Orange Man Bad

like the NPC that you are

[Yzermandius19]

the CPC is intent on remaining fake opposition

so I'll stick with Mad Max

[Nationalist]

46 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes, let's spend many posts talking about how you got me to concede my lack of clarity.  That's probably the best way to get you to feel good.

 

The worst way, would be to ask your take on fast tracking skilled immigrants... again.

Does Peter Pepperlips still have your vote?

Nobody has my vote yet.

You got caught making a false statement. You want to call that "lack of clarity", which I and several others apparently, have noticed you do almost daily. Your addled grasp of "clarity" seems to conflict with your pronouncements of being "conservative".

Quite honestly, I get the sense that you're a CBC writer or something like that.

[Nationalist]

3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the CPC is intent on remaining fake opposition

so I'll stick with Mad Max

I have a feeling I might be joining ya Bud.

[Nefarious Banana]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Answer: Because you are a 'conservative' who wants to be taken seriously ?

Mike, tell us again that you're a Conservative . . . . folks just don't believe you anymore.

[Moonbox]

4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the CPC is intent on remaining fake opposition

or maybe they're realistic adults and understand tantrums and bitching don't get you elected.  

4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

so I'll stick with Mad Max

Please do.  You guys can all high-five each other about how conservative you are and how much more you love freeeeedom than everyone else.  

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

or maybe they're realistic adults and understand tantrums and bitching don't get you elected.  

Please do.  You guys can all high-five each other about how conservative you are and how much more you love freeeeedom than everyone else.  

getting elected by being the same as the Liberals is irrelevant

I will not throw core principles under the bus to win elections

that is a terrible trade off

Edited March 15, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[eyeball]

19 hours ago, Faramir said:

That is such alarmist BS.  If we REALLY believed global warming we would all move away from the coasts.

Why? The coast rises sharply enough around here in places to make it perfectly safe to stay. in fact under worst case scenarios my property will be waterfront one day.

[Moonbox]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

getting elected by being the same as the Liberals is irrelevant

The alternatives are not the same.  It's easy to highlight differences.  Your problem is that you're not happy with anything but the complete opposite of the Liberals. 

3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I will not throw core principles under the bus to win elections

that is a terrible trade off

and immature and silly attitude, considering most people don't share your values.  This is like taking your ball and going home because people won't play exactly how you want.  It's pure identity politics and it's utterly pointless, stubborn denial.   

[Army Guy]

13 hours ago, Moonbox said:

1....Nobody's asking you to show up at the parade in your buttless chaps.  There is a bare minimum requirement, however, that politicians guarantee and defend rights on these issues.  They can choose not to at their own peril, but having something like 10% of the electorate not trust you and then being unpopular with women is not a great starting point for an election campaign.  

2.....I do hold everything Justin's done against him, but it too will end up being a blip on the radar.  The Emergency Act was unnecessary and an abuse of power, but it will be remembered as a cautionary tale rather than a turning point in Canadian politics.  This is something that Trudeau can and should lose his government over, but here's the problem:

3....The Freedom Convoy represents something worse to Canadians - an embracing of Trump-style politics and all of the ignorance, hate and anger it represents.  The craziest thing about the Emergencies Act isn't it was invoked without proper grounds, but rather that Canadians were so strongly against the Freedom Convoy that they didn't even care that much.    Say whatever you want about Trudeau, he wasn't worse than the Conspiracy Theorist in Chief.  

4....and I'm almost certain that's bad for Canada.  It's bad for the Conservative Party because they'll lose the next election and it's also bad for Canadians because Trudeau and/or his government will be rewarded for their poor performance.  

1.... not sure why we are continuing to talk about this point, None of the candidates have even mumbled anything about changing these topics... they have come out and tell every one they were lies of the liberal campaign.. and it was lost in the noise made by liberal lies over and over ...and the people took that bait and swam with it...No where was it in the Conservative play book to challenge these issues already cut into stone...

2... sure you do...unless i have said it then they are wild lies... And your right Canadians don't have any memory when it comes to politics...unless your a liberal, and i don't see a massive wave of liberals parking their votes in another parties pocket maybe NDP but not many going to the Conservatives....

3... i disagree, what Justin has done or has not done in 8 years , can not be compared to something that happened over a period of one month...sorry your no going to convince me of that...

4...Then a majority of Canadians don't see Justins performance as bad at all, they see it as good enough to vote once again...give him four more years and they (voters) will get exactly what they deserve....You can't fix stupid...Why do you think that is ?... 

 

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

The alternatives are not the same.  It's easy to highlight differences.  Your problem is that you're not happy with anything but the complete opposite of the Liberals. 

and immature and silly attitude, considering most people don't share your values.  This is like taking your ball and going home because people won't play exactly how you want.  It's pure identity politics and it's utterly pointless, stubborn denial.   

You do know you spend 99.9 % of your time challenging Conservatives, and very little time do the same to liberals , either you see them as a waste of time... or you want all conservatives to have the same thought process as you have... 

Is it a immature and silly attitude, not every Canadian has the same moral values, why should a person have to compromise theirs to fit some ones else that they might consider inferior or just plain shitty...Last election i did take my ball and went home, with out voting becasue no one had or shared my moral values... and i am not the only one in fact  a good portion of Canadians do the same thing..in fact 38 % of the voters are just not interested... 

Quote

 

OTTAWA -- Sixty-two per cent of eligible voters cast ballots in last week's federal election -- about average turnout for recent Canadian elections despite the challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Elections Canada says almost 17 million Canadians voted, out of 27.4 million eligible electors. 

Election 2021: Voter turnout about average despite COVID-19 challenges | CTV News

 

Maybe they just see the entire system broken...and don't want to participate, same source as above..

 

Quote

 

Analysis and aftermath[edit]

The remarkable similarity of the results and those of the 2019 federal election may have reinforced voters' sentiments that the early election was unnecessary, and its meagre results have left their mark on the electorate. A survey by Maru Public Opinion revealed that 77% of respondents believe that Canada is more divided than ever, and 52% feel that Canada's democratic system is broken.^[1

 

 

 

[Zeitgeist]

Our government presents no vision of greater freedom, living standards, and a better world.  They use fear to cow people into submission to unconstitutional policies.  This isn’t about left versus right anymore, or rather, it’s foolish to pretend that the Liberal-NDP government is liberal democrat, lessez-faire, or standing up for working people.

The government is self-serving, detached from working people, and elitist.  The problem is, where do we find a solid opposition that won’t simply be written off as either another iteration of the Liberal narrative or a racist-fringe-misogynist group with unacceptable views?  I’m not sure a real opposition can win enough support to defeat the government.  Our population has walked into collectivist, Internationalist totalitarianism with a youthful looking PM who seems to be able to get the public to overlook democratic “slippage”.   Well it’s a lot more than slippage, but look over here!  Putin bad!  Get behind the war effort!

Edited March 15, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Quite honestly, I get the sense that you're a CBC writer or something like that.

Oh, god no, I am not that bad

[Moonbox]

20 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

1.... not sure why we are continuing to talk about this point, None of the candidates have even mumbled anything about changing these topics... they have come out and tell every one they were lies of the liberal campaign.. and it was lost in the noise made by liberal lies over and over ...and the people took that bait and swam with it...No where was it in the Conservative play book to challenge these issues already cut into stone...

First off, Pierre Poilievre has been vocally against abortion and gay marriage in the past.  That he's apparently changed his mind on these issues is noted, but then he also says he'd allow free votes on these issues from his caucus.  That's not good enough.  Allowing what effectively represents a challenge on these fundamental rights is enough to scare off gay people and plenty of women, regardless of how likely they are to succeed.  Don't take my word for it though.  Ask some gay people how they feel.  

20 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

2... sure you do...unless i have said it then they are wild lies... And your right Canadians don't have any memory when it comes to politics...unless your a liberal,

Is that why Alberta has been a wasteland for the Liberals since Pierre TRudeau? 

20 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

and i don't see a massive wave of liberals parking their votes in another parties pocket maybe NDP but not many going to the Conservatives....

That's because you view them as "completely opposite" (your words, not mine).  

20 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

3... i disagree, what Justin has done or has not done in 8 years, can not be compared to something that happened over a period of one month...sorry your no going to convince me of that...

Convincing you is irrelevant.  You're going to vote Conservative no matter who the leader is, and from the sounds of it you've never voted anything else.  What matters is how the undecided voter feels, and too bad so sorry, those undecided voters are centrists and they're not going to be impressed with Preston Manning 2.0.  

20 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

4...Then a majority of Canadians don't see Justins performance as bad at all, they see it as good enough to vote once again...give him four more years and they (voters) will get exactly what they deserve....You can't fix stupid...Why do you think that is ?... 

Believe it or not, you can disapprove of Justin and still vote for him if you think the alternative is worse. You're right that you can't fix stupid, so if the CPC thinks that picking a controversial, divisive and inflammatory leader is the best way to build bridges to the centre, you're absolutely right.  They'll be getting what they deserve.