No longer a democracy

[Nationalist]

26 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You and your chickenshit ilk. Pinochet would puke if he could see you.

Pinochet was a moron and a dick so...thanks.

[Zeitgeist]

6 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Why should your particular set of “family values” be the one that is taught?  What makes it superior to the value that families can be made up of 1 parent, or 2 parents of the same gender, as well as a family of 2 parents of the opposite gender?

 

Stop pretending to care about people’s rights.  

[myata]

Back to the topic: Canada is no longer a democracy. A modern democracy is more than token elections from the same club and propaganda influenced opinion polls. Hitler had it. Any decent dictator these days has it. What else?

[TreeBeard]

12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Stop pretending to care about people’s rights.  

How did ‘rights’ enter the conversation?  I thought I was discussing the teaching of a particular set of values in school.

[Nationalist]

24 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Actually, I have some affinity for what you say. When I was in politics, with a view to becoming Canada's longest serving Conservative Prime Minister, I wanted the education system to instill loyalty to the Queen of Canada and to adopt the Swiss system of conscription.

Unfortunately, my political career was interrupted by late-onset maturity.

Your use of the term "family values" could be construed as homophobic. I realize you mean the loving bonds within the family but the term has been hijacked by the cement-heads who are frightened by our LGBTQA community.

I agree academic excellence is the objective we all want. It is our biggest tool to overcome the climate change deniers.

Actually...I agree that a short term in the military should be mandatory here. But I must ask...the "Queen of Canada"? Not to the nation itself?

Correct. Family values. To me that's things like respect and honour. Two things I find seriously lacking in people these days...especially in the cities.

The climate is something that should be taught. I would let the kids decide their mind on it though, since its not terribly settled. Provide the primary perspectives and leave to them.

[TreeBeard]

13 minutes ago, myata said:

Back to the topic: Canada is no longer a democracy. A modern democracy is more than token elections from the same club and propaganda influenced opinion polls. Hitler had it. Any decent dictator these days has it. What else?

How are Canada’s elections merely a token?  Is this simply a case of not getting what you want from it?  

[Nationalist]

22 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Why should your particular set of “family values” be the one that is taught?  What makes it superior to the value that families can be made up of 1 parent, or 2 parents of the same gender, as well as a family of 2 parents of the opposite gender?

 

Did I mention gender at all?

Quit trying to pick a fight where none exists.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

How are Canada’s elections merely a token? 

They are a token to people with a consumerist vision of how things should work.  If you resent having to compromise, if you feel your world view is unassailable then you may be in this group.

[Jack9000]

18 minutes ago, myata said:

Back to the topic: Canada is no longer a democracy. A modern democracy is more than token elections from the same club and propaganda influenced opinion polls. Hitler had it. Any decent dictator these days has it. What else?

stop spreading this nonsense. CANADA IS  A DEMOCRACY people like you trying to push otherwise is whats dangerous around here.

[myata]

2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

How are Canada’s elections merely a token?

They don't represent real issues and problems of the society. Imagine one is in a hospital hoping to find a competent help but offered only red pill or blue pill. A universal government party, in this century? No can't be real, just doesn't happen. Only an imitation, sad parody.

[TreeBeard]

3 minutes ago, myata said:

They don't represent real issues and problems of the society. Imagine one is in a hospital hoping to find a competent help but offered only red pill or blue pill. A universal government party, in this century? No can't be real, just doesn't happen. Only an imitation, sad parody.

That’s your opinion of what we have, but why should I believe that this is really the case?  Again, I don’t see a reason for your view other than “I don’t like the results”.  

 

[Michael Hardner]

Maybe should be making a list of posters who make hysterical claims ?

Such as "We are in an autocracy" after a several-weeks shutdown of the capital by protesters...

[TreeBeard]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Maybe should be making a list of posters who make hysterical claims ?

Such as "We are in an autocracy" after a several-weeks shutdown of the capital by protesters...

Is there a way to provide this list to Trudeau…. You know…. For “re-education” purposes?  

Joking aside…. Maybe we are in an autocracy and just don’t know it?  That’s why I’m asking for some evidence and concrete examples.

Edited February 15, 2022 by TreeBeard

[Zeitgeist]

6 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

That’s your opinion of what we have, but why should I believe that this is really the case?  Again, I don’t see a reason for your view other than “I don’t like the results”.  

 

You don’t understand why we have constitutional protections that ensure that basic rights, including those of minorities, aren’t overturned.  This is to avoid the tyranny of the majority, which happens when totalitarian governments are elected.  The justification for suspending citizens’ rights is very stringent.  Our government can’t justify the continued suspension and won’t give a timeline for restoring civil rights.  This is serious business.  It’s affecting people deeply, to the extent of unemployment.  It’s just unethical and fascistic.  

Edited February 15, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[TreeBeard]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

You don’t understand why we have constitutional protections that ensure that basic rights, including those of minorities, aren’t overturned.  This is to avoid the tyranny of the majority, such as happened when totalitarian governments are elected.

Maybe you and I both like rights.   Could the difference be that I want the courts to oversee the enforcement of these and you would prefer it to be enforced by a small group of self-appointed “rights-enforcers”?  

One of our methods abides by the same Constitution you claim to hold dear and the other is simply mob rule.

[Queenmandy85]

13 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Actually...I agree that a short term in the military should be mandatory here. But I must ask...the "Queen of Canada"? Not to the nation itself?

The climate is something that should be taught. I would let the kids decide their mind on it though, since its not terribly settled. Provide the primary perspectives and leave to them.

The Queen is the personifacation of Canada. 

I think the issue of climate change is pretty much settled. 

My view on conscription has changed over the years. I would like to see a program where post- secondary education be free, but you only qualify for admission after a five year stint in the Canadian Forces. 

[Queenmandy85]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 The justification for suspending citizens’ rights is very stringent.  Our government can’t justify the continued suspension and won’t give a timeline for restoring civil rights.  This is serious business.  It’s affecting people deeply, to the extent of unemployment.  It’s just unethical and fascistic.

Currently, I don't think we have a mechanism to suspend charter rights. That power went out with the repeal of the War Measures Act. The Emergency Measures Act does not suspend your charter rights.

[Goddess]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Maybe should be making a list of posters who make hysterical claims ?

Such as "We are in an autocracy" after a several-weeks shutdown of the capital by protesters...

Or such as "Truckers are destroying the economy and making us lose jobs!" after 2 years of Trudeau shutting down the economy and making us lose jobs.

[myata]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

This is to avoid the tyranny of the majority, which happens when totalitarian governments are elected.

This is indeed an interesting question. Does freedom even exist, objectively? What does it mean when a government first pumps fear and then turns around and says you have to do this and this and this just so that one bright day (as long as necessary) we'll have no fear? Whose interpretation is correct, yours or the governments? Who is the arbiter and who trusts it? These are not just formal matter. They require conscious dialogue and agreement in the society. An arbiter has to be trusted by all sides to offer a lasting solution that everyone accepts. No just a robe isn't enough. And when a society is divided and polarized? If a part of population thinks that the government is imposing on their rights and there's no trusted arbiter, no matter formally painted ones? Well it means a deep trouble for the society doesn't it because there's no clear, peaceful exit from such a conundrum.

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Dudley George - killed by a police sniper for occupation of a Provincial Park in Ontario

OKA Crisis - two fatalities

But Trudeau threatens to tow a few Western Separatists' trucks and 'Democracy is over'

That's a very infantile take on it.

Your comps are basically just words with no meaning.

What's Dudley George's story? Why was he shot? How does it compare?

What happened with the Oka crisis? Why were there fatalities there? 

You're talking about 3 fatalities which don't seem to be comps at all. 

 

This is a lawful, peaceful protest.

Trudeau is sad that int'l trade was down 25% for a wekk, protesters are angry because they got turfed for not taking the placebo and they lose 100% of their wages for months. 

Trudeau is a worthless hate monger and a vax-Nazi. This is an atrocity. 

[WestCanMan]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Or such as "Truckers are destroying the economy and making us lose jobs!" after 2 years of Trudeau shutting down the economy and making us lose jobs.

Trade was down 25% for a week. 

The vax mandates are forcing people to lose 100% of their wages for months. 

Trudeau is a piece of shit.

[Moonbox]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Or such as "Truckers are destroying the economy and making us lose jobs!" after 2 years of Trudeau shutting down the economy and making us lose jobs.

Shutting the most economically important border crossing down and leaving auto plants closed isn't good for the economy, is it?  

If you wanted to make an intelligent economics argument, that wasn't the way to do it.  

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Are you insane?   You won’t be able to get everyone vaccinated and it will still spread.  Omicron isn’t a big deal.  I have it right now and feel fine.  I’m glad you said what you just said because it illustrates that some Canadians, including our ruling class, are willing to destroy our way of life by continuing to make people live under these unnecessary mandates and restrictions. Wow.

You do realize that even the blue states are lifting indoor mask mandates, including New York State?   We’re really living behind an iron curtain here.  It’s totalitarian Liberal groupthink, promoted by state-funded media.  

I wish you well in your recovery and hope you avoid any after effects. If we get another wave from a variant of concern, it may be more deadly and the vaccine is your best bet to avoid serious illness, until someone comes up with something better. Even with omicron, some people are dying from it.

[Zeitgeist]

9 minutes ago, myata said:

This is indeed an interesting question. Does freedom even exist, objectively? What does it mean when a government first pumps fear and then turns around and says you have to do this and this and this just so that one bright day (as long as necessary) we'll have no fear? Whose interpretation is correct, yours or the governments? Who is the arbiter and who trusts it? These are not just formal matter. They require conscious dialogue and agreement in the society. An arbiter has to be trusted by all sides to offer a lasting solution that everyone accepts. No just a robe isn't enough. And when a society is divided and polarized? If a part of population thinks that the government is imposing on their rights and there's no trusted arbiter, no matter formally painted ones? Well it means a deep trouble for the society doesn't it because there's no clear, peaceful exit from such a conundrum.

Well that’s why I think a constitution should be sacrosanct.  In the end, none of our mandates or lockdowns or unconstitutional restrictions should have been permitted once vaccines become available to at-risk age groups — and that’s when we had Delta and the vaccines proved to be quite effective.

Right now I’m forced to stay home not because I’m sick but because I tested positive.  I guess such a quarantine policy has had legitimacy when circumstances were less understood and we didn’t have vaccines and Omicron.

Now all of these pandemic measures are unnecessary constraints that are needlessly hurting people.  Let people take the precautions that they think they need.  Let’s restore our constitutional rights and get back to living free, normal lives.  Mandates and restrictions can no longer be justified.  

Edited February 15, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Moonbox]

8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Right now I’m forced to stay home not because I’m sick but because I tested positive.  I guess such a quarantine policy has had legitimacy when circumstances were less understood and we didn’t have vaccines and Omicron.

The fact that you're sick with COVID and can't even accept isolating tells us how reasonable and willing to compromise you are on these subjects.  This is why nobody takes the trucker's protest seriously and why nobody is listening to you.  

Whatever other valid arguments you may or may not have get drowned in foolishness, ignorance and selfishness.