Doug Ford and Covid 19

[oops]

Cost of lockdown

“People are dying from COVID-19 who didn’t have the virus. They’re dying because of the response that we had related to COVID-19. It might be the isolation, depression, the weight loss, the lack of supervision and observation that normally these people would have,” Chicotel says. “The lack of family involvement that they would normally have is hurting people and killing some of them, particularly those with dementia.”

benefit of lockdown, some people will get ill tomorrow

[Boges]

I just want to quote something from today's CP24 analysis of Ontario's COVID-19 number for November 19th. 

Quote

 

The province's summary today indicates that there are 526 people infected with COVID-19 in Ontario hospitals and 146 people in intensive care.

But recent data from Critical Care Services Ontario suggests that the province has actually already hit 150 ICU admissions, reaching the threshold that will force some hospitals to cancel elective surgeries and other procedures.

The province's projections released last week said that ICU capacity would exceed the 150 mark "within two weeks."

"The numbers are very concerning. They are increasing even though there have been some restrictions in place since Oct. 10. We are not seeing any flattening of the curve, in fact the numbers are continuing to rise quite rapidly," Ontario Health Minister Christine Elliott said Thursday. 

 

To say that mental health and other surgeries are being neglected because of COVID-19 negates the fact that Hospitals aren't just cancelling surgeries because of some fear that the disease will spread. They're doing it because they're overwhelmed with people who are sick from COVID-19! 

And the more people think of COVID-19 as just another flu. And people operating like it's business as usual creates the cascading environment where more and more people die as hospitals fill up. 

I think blanket social bans aren't productive. But we should also trying to discourage large indoor social gatherings. Because that's what's causing the virus to spread. 

See your family if you need to. But don't have 30 people over and all sit at a large table or crowd around a Christmas Tree. This isn't the year for that. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Boges

[OftenWrong]

So you will understand where the main problem is, and what negligence is. You have been taken for a walk down the garden path, you want to believe. I do not.

Quote

Sandra Caleta, of Advocates for Long-Term Care Reform Ontario, which represents 4,000 LTC families, reprimanded Premier Doug Ford and his LTC Minister Merrilee Fullerton for doing nothing since promising in the spring to fix the most serious issues.

She referred to perennial problems of short-staffing, filth, disrepair, sedation (of clients) and infestation (of pests).

Now, as the province is well into the second wave, there’s been “no substantial changes,” she said.

They are already in the process of seeing a repeat of the devastation that occurred in the spring with 100 LTC homes in the province now in active outbreak, said Caleta.

What I said in March.

[CITIZEN_2015]

With close to 1600 new cases today and rising the Ontario government and Doug Ford are making a big mistake to keep the schools open. Close the damn schools in Ontario,

Edited November 21, 2020 by CITIZEN_2015

[oops]

On 11/19/2020 at 10:16 AM, Boges said:

To say that mental health and other surgeries are being neglected because of COVID-19 negates the fact that Hospitals aren't just cancelling surgeries because of some fear that the disease will spread. They're doing it because they're overwhelmed with people who are sick from COVID-19! 

There are 384 hospitals in Ontario, and 513 people currently hospitalized with covid19. With less than 2 cases per hospital overwhelmed might be a stretch. Maybe closing the hospitals when there were already months long waiting lists for major procedures is part of the problem.

[Boges]

On 11/21/2020 at 12:10 PM, oops said:

There are 384 hospitals in Ontario, and 513 people currently hospitalized with covid19. With less than 2 cases per hospital overwhelmed might be a stretch. Maybe closing the hospitals when there were already months long waiting lists for major procedures is part of the problem.

Two Thirds of the daily cases come from the Toronto/Peel area. That's where the crisis is happening. And that's where the Lockdowns will happen. 

I don't think a Hospital in Sudbury or Dryden play a factor in the crisis that's happening in the Toronto area. 

The cases are concentrated. And it's sad because they happening in high density places where people can't just work from home and distance from their family. 

[Boges]

On 11/21/2020 at 11:31 AM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

With close to 1600 new cases today and rising the Ontario government and Doug Ford are making a big mistake to keep the schools open. Close the damn schools in Ontario,

There is no evidence that schools are where the outbreaks are happening. Schools enforce mask wearing and will send a child home immediately once the exhibit symptoms. 

The big problem is family and social gatherings.

Who's going to sacrifice a traditional Christmas this year and avoid gathering in a home with 20 other relatives that all live in separate bubbles? 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Boges

[oops]

3 hours ago, Boges said:

Two Thirds of the daily cases come from the Toronto/Peel area. That's where the crisis is happening. And that's where the Lockdowns will happen. 

I don't think a Hospital in Sudbury or Dryden play a factor in the crisis that's happening in the Toronto area. 

The cases are concentrated. And it's sad because they happening in high density places where people can't just work from home and distance from their family. 

Perhaps we could do hospital transfers for a handful of people, rather than locking down millions.

[OftenWrong]

24 minutes ago, oops said:

Perhaps we could do hospital transfers for a handful of people, rather than locking down millions.

That they even want to use the dilapidated health care system to deal with this crisis begs another question.

Are you kidding me?  

[Zeitgeist]

Schools in Toronto and Peel are actually becoming areas of outbreak and local transmission.  Also, schools are becoming increasingly unsafe in the hotspots due to serious staffing shortages.  Teachers of virtual classes are being forced to work at school against public health advice. 

The issue I have with the way Ontario is handling the second wave is that it does nothing right.  It doesn't support business, substantially reduce cases, or even allow families to get together at Christmas.  I think the main reason for this is that there's no solid game plan.  Instead of having this strange partial lockdown that closes businesses but not schools indefinitely (Ford has already said these rules in Peel and Toronto will persist beyond 28 days into Christmas), we should have a clear, certain timeline.  For example, I would allow all retailers to operate with some moderate occupancy restrictions until December 6 (the end of a weekend), allowing store owners to generate Christmas sales during their most important selling period of the year, then go into strict lockdown until Christmas Eve. 

Quebec, which right now now is having more success in flattening the curve than Ontario, is allowing two get togethers of up to 10 people between December 24-27, then going back into lockdown for a week.  The 2.5 week lockdown prior to Christmas would slash case levels, give a firm and reasonable closure period to businesses that allows them to keep some market share from Amazon, and allow families to have a sense of real celebration at a time when people are suffering emotionally.  I'd also recommend two weeks of lockdown after Christmas, so that we can reopen the economy in January.  Schools need to be part of the lockdown too.  It's ridiculous to create an inequitable situation wherein only those with a parent/caregiver at home have the luxury of keeping their kids at home for online learning during a dangerous pandemic.  Privilege buys safety.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[CITIZEN_2015]

On 11/23/2020 at 8:45 AM, Boges said:

There is no evidence that schools are where the outbreaks are happening.

This is not true. Hundreds of schools reporting at least one confirmed case and some having outbreaks. They then take virus home to parents or grandparents giving them to me and you in groceries or even God forbid die from it.

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

This is not true. Hundreds of schools reporting at least one confirmed case and some having outbreaks. They then take virus home to parents or grandparents giving them to me and you in groceries or even God forbid die from it.

Well when we talk about the economy and mental health, the ability for a child to go to school or daycare is very important. It also allows a parent to work if they're job doesn't allow for working at home. 

Here are the Ontario numbers. 

https://www.ontario.ca/page/covid-19-cases-schools-and-child-care-centres

Not nothing, but a small percentage of the total cases. I know first hand that any sign of symptoms, the child is isolated and sent home. They also can't go back without a Negative test. Even if it's a cold. 

[Zeitgeist]

Schools are very problematic in the hotspots right now.  There have been major outbreaks (transmission within schools).  Almost half of Brampton schools have cases.  We have done well to keep schools open from September until now, but if we want a real circuit break that will allow our economy to run at much greater capacity, we need a hard lockdown with a minimal timeframe.  I think 2.5 weeks prior to Christmas and 2 weeks after Christmas would minimize disruption to business, save our health system, and give us a brief reprieve to celebrate Christmas.  The current mushy middle hurts retailers and doesn't flatten the curve.  What's it all for when people continue to die or lose their businesses -- and we can't even celebrate Christmas?

[Boges]

21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Schools are very problematic in the hotspots right now.  There have been major outbreaks (transmission within schools).  Almost half of Brampton schools have cases.  We have done well to keep schools open from September until now, but if we want a real circuit break that will allow our economy to run at much greater capacity, we need a hard lockdown with a minimal timeframe.  I think 2.5 weeks prior to Christmas and 2 weeks after Christmas would minimize disruption to business, save our health system, and give us a brief reprieve to celebrate Christmas.  The current mushy middle hurts retailers and doesn't flatten the curve.  What's it all for when people continue to die or lose their businesses -- and we can't even celebrate Christmas?

Do you believe the stats I posted? 

[OftenWrong]

8 hours ago, Boges said:

Do you believe the stats I posted? 

Thanks for posting it. Have any of the kids died in that list in Ontario? I didnt see that on my phone.

[Zeitgeist]

9 hours ago, Boges said:

Do you believe the stats I posted? 

Yes I do.  They're worrisome.  Schools are being kept open when there are multiple cases and class closures within schools.  With so many schools impacted, can we really keep them open and honestly say we're running a lockdown?  It's good to keep the schools operating when case levels are manageable.  Currently they are not.  Peel and Toronto are struggling to contact trace the origins of community spread.  

[BeaverFever]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Thanks for posting it. Have any of the kids died in that list in Ontario? I didnt see that on my phone.

So you’re saying as long as they recover don’t die there’s no problem?? Doesn’t matter how many other people they infect or if any oany of those people doe?  Doesn’t matter that if one person in a household is infected the whole household has to isolate for 2 weeks?

[OftenWrong]

10 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

So you’re saying as long as they recover don’t die there’s no problem?? Doesn’t matter how many other people they infect or if any oany of those people doe?  Doesn’t matter that if one person in a household is infected the whole household has to isolate for 2 weeks?

I guess you'll have to take that up with the Premier and the health authority. Obviously they are well aware, and allowing it.

I suppose it does create a dichotomy for some. Allow death?

 

[taxme]

On 11/15/2020 at 8:21 AM, oops said:

Cost of lockdown

“People are dying from COVID-19 who didn’t have the virus. They’re dying because of the response that we had related to COVID-19. It might be the isolation, depression, the weight loss, the lack of supervision and observation that normally these people would have,” Chicotel says. “The lack of family involvement that they would normally have is hurting people and killing some of them, particularly those with dementia.”

benefit of lockdown, some people will get ill tomorrow

This Convid 1984 virus lie and farce has caused more harm to society than this so called China virus could have ever done. We have all been conned into believing and listening to the lies of our dear lying pro globalist comrade leaders, the lying globalist controlled media, and those so called lying health experts like comrade globalist Tammy and here in BC comrade globalist Bonnie Poo. All those people need to be arrested and charged with crimes against Canadians and crimes against humanity for what they have done to we the people and especially our senior citizen's. 

Event 201 which can still be found on the internet told us this plandemic was going to happen and it did happen. But as long as there are zombie like people out there who can easily be convinced thru constant brainwashing and put into a state of fear and panic over a non threatning virus this bs will go on and on and will only get worse. Our freedoms have been taken away from us and no one seems to give a dam. I should not say all as there are now many Canadians out there getting together to fight this global lie and farce.

Action4Canada is just one of those groups of Canadian patriots who have had enough of these convid 1984 virus lie. Everyone here should at least go and check out their website and try to get the other side of the story. I promise you that they will not bite. To know only one side of the story is to know nothing at all. Just saying. 

[OftenWrong]

I do find it comforting that in Ontario we have the great Doug Ford running things. Because he is a highly skilled and most of all, such a wise leader.

We don't know what he did before he was premier and we don't care. The past is irrelevant. Indeed he was transformed by the experience when he ascended to the highest office in the land, propelled by his skills and by love. We must give our complete trust to this great man.

[Boges]

2,200 cases today. 

Hospitalization nearing 1,000. Total deaths approaching 4,000. 

Not sure what can be done at this point, short of a March style Lockdown. If you only lockdown certain places, people just go to other places. 

This Holiday Season is going to be tough. 

[OftenWrong]

25 minutes ago, Boges said:

2,200 cases today. 

Hospitalization nearing 1,000. Total deaths approaching 4,000. 

Not sure what can be done at this point, short of a March style Lockdown. If you only lockdown certain places, people just go to other places. 

This Holiday Season is going to be tough. 

Looking at the information worldwide I think we can say that these lockdowns are not doing it. Look at Germany. They just went into deeper than deep grey mode. Next up put troops out there and detain anyone who dares stick their head out a door.

That moment when you accept you've reached the point of diminishing returns. That's all, folks.

[OftenWrong]

We won't get to see Gramma. She lives in the GTA, Peel region, which is now code grey thanks to the majority population of Punjabi's who all are getting it. They were allowed to party hearty during their Diwali festival. Thousands and thousands of them.

Now she can't go outside for a walk, and no one is allowed to come for a visit.

 

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Looking at the information worldwide I think we can say that these lockdowns are not doing it. Look at Germany. They just went into deeper than deep grey mode. Next up put troops out there and detain anyone who dares stick their head out a door.

That moment when you accept you've reached the point of diminishing returns. That's all, folks.

I agree. 

I can't only take comfort in knowing it can be much worse. Most Canadians aren't super-spreading. We do wear masks and mostly social distance. 

Deaths per million in Ontario is under 300. 

Only 5 US states have Deaths per million that low. 

[Cannucklehead]

https://globalnews.ca/news/7535230/ontario-new-coronavirus-shutdown-boxing-day/amp/

 

Ontario to shut down in 5 days.  I hope this brings the numbers back down.  

Stock up on toys before its too late!