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Doug Ford and Covid 19


Hussain

Is Doug Ford handling the Covid 19 outbreak good?  

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I'm not sure if I voted in this thing, but if I was to vote now I'd vote 'no'. We are not doing enough testing, and our contact tracing is absurdly bad.

Randall Denley detailed one of the major issues last week when he pointed out that the testing and contact tracing is done by Ontario's 34 semi-independent health districts who are not appointed by nor responsible to the Ontario government. They essentially test as they wish, and do contact tracing with as much alacrity as they think proper, and don't always pass information up the ladder, either. Many of them are taking days to start contact tracing when someone tests positive, and that's not nearly good enough. But Ontario has it in its power to abolish these local health districts if it wants to, or simply change the rules whereby all of them have to obey the ministry of health. They haven't done so.

Local medical officers of health report to local health boards, but in practice they are largely independent. That’s innocuous enough in normal times when public health officials concerns themselves largely with advising people about the dangers of sugar or reminding us to drink lots of water when it’s hot. In a pandemic, Ontario’s balkanized public health regime is clearly out of its depth. Both the provincial auditor general and a recent provincial expert panel on public health have noted that many of these little health units lack the size to perform effectively.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/randall-denley-who-really-controls-ontario-covid-19-testing-and-reopening-rates-unfortunately-not-doug-ford

"It's taking days and days for people to even be contacted about contact tracing," said Isaac Bogoch, an infectious diseases physician at Toronto General Hospital, referring to his experience with patients who have tested positive and discussions with colleagues about their patients. "We can clearly make short-term Band-Aid solutions that are going to be effective in contacting patients with their positive test results in real time."

Under the current system, Ontario health officials say they want health units to contact 90 per cent of new cases within 24 hours of receiving a positive test to initiate the contact tracing process. Many medical experts say this goal isn’t good enough, as contact tracing must be done much faster to alert people exposed to COVID-19 so they isolate themselves and avoid spreading the disease to others.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontarios-contact-tracing-efforts-are-falling-short-experts-say/

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13 hours ago, Argus said:

I'm not sure if I voted in this thing, but if I was to vote now I'd vote 'no'. We are not doing enough testing, and our contact tracing is absurdly bad.

Randall Denley detailed one of the major issues last week when he pointed out that the testing and contact tracing is done by Ontario's 34 semi-independent health districts who are not appointed by nor responsible to the Ontario government. They essentially test as they wish, and do contact tracing with as much alacrity as they think proper, and don't always pass information up the ladder, either. Many of them are taking days to start contact tracing when someone tests positive, and that's not nearly good enough. But Ontario has it in its power to abolish these local health districts if it wants to, or simply change the rules whereby all of them have to obey the ministry of health. They haven't done so.

Local medical officers of health report to local health boards, but in practice they are largely independent. That’s innocuous enough in normal times when public health officials concerns themselves largely with advising people about the dangers of sugar or reminding us to drink lots of water when it’s hot. In a pandemic, Ontario’s balkanized public health regime is clearly out of its depth. Both the provincial auditor general and a recent provincial expert panel on public health have noted that many of these little health units lack the size to perform effectively.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/randall-denley-who-really-controls-ontario-covid-19-testing-and-reopening-rates-unfortunately-not-doug-ford

"It's taking days and days for people to even be contacted about contact tracing," said Isaac Bogoch, an infectious diseases physician at Toronto General Hospital, referring to his experience with patients who have tested positive and discussions with colleagues about their patients. "We can clearly make short-term Band-Aid solutions that are going to be effective in contacting patients with their positive test results in real time."

Under the current system, Ontario health officials say they want health units to contact 90 per cent of new cases within 24 hours of receiving a positive test to initiate the contact tracing process. Many medical experts say this goal isn’t good enough, as contact tracing must be done much faster to alert people exposed to COVID-19 so they isolate themselves and avoid spreading the disease to others.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontarios-contact-tracing-efforts-are-falling-short-experts-say/

You can't just go out and test the public at large. 

People have to come to an assessment centre. And because of the invasive nature of the test, you'd really only volunteer if you suspected you may have it. 

But DoFo has said that anyone can get a test if they want. And testing has ramped up recently. 

As for contact tracing. It's tough, I think it can only really be done successfully very early in the outbreak process. 

My issues with how DoFo has handled this is the massive grey area we have. Public gatherings are still limited to 5 people. That makes no sense when you're allowing all private retail to open, golf courses to open, parks to open. 

It creates this situation where people who are dogmatic narcs about social distancing can still justify their strict protocol while the rest of people can proceed where they feel comfortable. 

I'm not going to avoid seeing the friends and family I've been staying away from for 2+ months but go out and play golf. 

Edited by Boges
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Handling it good? Is that standard Ontario lingo? I'd say he's handling it somewhat better than I expected, but there is huge room for improvement. As in the country generally, the response has been poorly organized and data takes too long to get back to stakeholders. Let's hope this appointment smartens things up a bit:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-appoints-jane-philpott-to-lead-pandemic-data-effort/

 

Edited by SpankyMcFarland
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Ford is allowing restaurants and bars to expand their patios by a certain amount without having to go through the usual application process.  This is very smart, and will allow these businesses to make up for the reduced capacity inside their establishments.  Go Ford!

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On 6/8/2020 at 12:15 PM, Shady said:

Ford is allowing restaurants and bars to expand their patios by a certain amount without having to go through the usual application process.  This is very smart, and will allow these businesses to make up for the reduced capacity inside their establishments.  Go Ford!

Except in the GTA :mellow:

Nice of them to up to gathering limit to 10 region wide. :rolleyes:

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Listened to a interview with some associate professor from Toronto U, and he is saying Fords covid policies are racist. Designed to fuck the immigrant.  This guy should lose his job. But he will probably get promoted.

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On 6/23/2020 at 8:29 AM, PIK said:

Fords covid policies are racist.

In what way are they racist?   POC don't get tested or admitted to hospitals?

Ford is safe if he sticks to the bottle the way he does.

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Around 150 new cases each in the past two days. Almost all coming from Toronto, Peel and Windsor Essex. 

The Rest of the province is approaching 2 weeks in Phase two without a concerning spike. 

The better result is the number of active cases dropping to under 2,000 cases. 

Consider that compared to 5,000 plus new daily cases in many states in the US. 

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

Around 150 new cases each in the past two days. Almost all coming from Toronto, Peel and Windsor Essex. 

The Rest of the province is approaching 2 weeks in Phase two without a concerning spike. 

The better result is the number of active cases dropping to under 2,000 cases. 

Consider that compared to 5,000 plus new daily cases in many states in the US. 

Please don't spike the football yet.  States that opened early aren't seeing an increase of cases because of the opening.  They're seeing an increase because people stopped doing what they're suppose to do.  The same could happen here in a month or so.

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11 minutes ago, Shady said:

Please don't spike the football yet.  States that opened early aren't seeing an increase of cases because of the opening.  They're seeing an increase because people stopped doing what they're suppose to do.  The same could happen here in a month or so.

Oh I'm not. 

I check the numbers with more consternation than I did in April and May. Because the margin for a bad result is much lower. a 300 case now will feel much worse now than a 500 case day in May. 

What happens if we get a record breaking day? Do we shut down immediately? 

But two or three weeks of numbers like this, with a continued drop of active cases and hospitalizations will be very helpful to move on to Phase 3. 

With rates this low, contact tracing is possible. 

I was actually really worried when we got a 260 day this week until I found out it was mostly from Windsor-Essex and Migrant workers. So not really community spread. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

There has now been a full 2 weeks with daily cases under 200. 

111 cases today. 

Less than 1,500 active cases. 

Less than 50 ICU beds occupied. 

At the end of the week the less populated parts of the Province will move to Phase 3. Which will allow for indoor dining, Gyms and Movie Theatres with Social Distancing guidelines still in place. The other portions will follow suit in following weeks. 

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2 hours ago, Boges said:

There has now been a full 2 weeks with daily cases under 200. 

111 cases today. 

Less than 1,500 active cases. 

Less than 50 ICU beds occupied. 

At the end of the week the less populated parts of the Province will move to Phase 3. Which will allow for indoor dining, Gyms and Movie Theatres with Social Distancing guidelines still in place. The other portions will follow suit in following weeks. 

I can't wait for gyms to be open, as well as limited indoor dining.

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I think the province should leave indoor bars off the phase 3 reopening for as long as weather permits patios and outdoor alternatives, as most of the outbreaks in the jurisdictions that have opened up have come from bars.  Social distancing tends to get ignored after a lot of drinking.  It would be a shame to have to go back into lockdown after all the sacrifices.  It would be nice to see schools reopen and parents be able to work and get the economy going again, even if it means wearing damn masks inside and dealing with some nuisances.  It's worth it.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 7/14/2020 at 1:56 PM, Shady said:

as well as limited indoor dining.

What a wonderful gift that would be... oh for limited dining.

But will the right honourable premier of Ontario bestow this upon us, in all his wisdom and grace?

When asked recently, his excellency was quoted to reply- “No friggin way.”

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  • 4 weeks later...

Doug Ford again demonstrates, to those actually paying attention, that he is totally useless. His comments about mayors and the whimsical shuttering of bars and restaurants because of a virus outbreak shows he has no sense of leadership at all. He is not a leader. To this man, we the public are merely a herd of cows.

 

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On 9/10/2020 at 8:07 AM, OftenWrong said:

Doug Ford again demonstrates, to those actually paying attention, that he is totally useless. His comments about mayors and the whimsical shuttering of bars and restaurants because of a virus outbreak shows he has no sense of leadership at all. He is not a leader. To this man, we the public are merely a herd of cows.

So you'll vote Liberal then? 

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Cases are most certainly going in the wrong direction in Ontario. 

Up to 1,700 active cases and 200+ cases a day. 

Note: this is a fraction of what's seen in the US or even Europe. But it begs the question when/if re-opening measures get rolled back. 

Hospitalization continues to drop and deaths have not increased. Of the 230 cases today, 70% are 40 or younger. 

We know that unchecked COVID-19 can get out of control, but we aren't at that stage yet. BUT I don't see us going back to a maskless normal anytime this year. Or even well into 2021. 

Edited by Boges
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Just now, Boges said:

Cases are most certainly going in the wrong direction in Ontario. 

Up to 1,700 active cases and 200+ cases a day. 

Note: this is a fraction of what's seen in the US or even Europe. But it begs the question when/if re-opening measures get rolled back. 

Per capita, BC is actually doing much worse. 

Hospitalization continues to drop and deaths have not increases. Of the 230 cases today, 70% are 40 or younger. 

We know that unchecked COVID-19 can get out of control, but we aren't at that state yet. BUT I don't see us going back to a maskless normal anytime this year. Or even well into 2021. 

 

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It's the Second Wave!

400 cases today. In high populated parts of the province public gatherings have been scaled back. 

This was predictable. Schools are back and people are going back to the office. 

The big problem is testing capacity. Testing is now well over 30,000 a day. People are being told they have to get tested. It's more a screening exercise over a diagnostic exercise. 

The testing centres are getting overrun. The province needs to allow doctors and pharmacies to process the tests. 

 

 

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On 9/10/2020 at 8:07 AM, OftenWrong said:

Doug Ford again demonstrates, to those actually paying attention, that he is totally useless. His comments about mayors and the whimsical shuttering of bars and restaurants because of a virus outbreak shows he has no sense of leadership at all. He is not a leader. To this man, we the public are merely a herd of cows.

 

Yep, I’m not impressed with the panic porn.   Cases were bound to increase as school get sorted out and kids are travelling across the province for college and university.  Students are being tested immediately when they arrive to catch infections before they spread.  With this huge increase in testing, it will drive up cases.  The group responsible for the uptick in cases is the least susceptible to any severe effects of the virus.  It should be about hospitalizations, not cases.  It’s like people are intentionally ignoring the science.  Oops I forgot though, we must’ve opened too soon right! :lol:

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/10/2020 at 8:07 AM, OftenWrong said:

Doug Ford again demonstrates, to those actually paying attention, that he is totally useless. His comments about mayors and the whimsical shuttering of bars and restaurants because of a virus outbreak shows he has no sense of leadership at all. He is not a leader. To this man, we the public are merely a herd of cows.

 

You are so funny at times. He has done a great job. Perfect , of course not, and he does care, you can see it in his face, unlike our PM who has no problem going on vacation and shutting down parliament just to save his hide. 

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