Doug Ford and Covid 19

[myata]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

None of the people bitching on this site have any real alternative to DoFo.

Really. How does one get a real alternative in a binary system, this or that, eggs or the porridge if not eggs then must be the porridge. At around two years of age children usually grow over that level of intelligence and may throw a tantrum. But given the right conditions it could take 160 years too.

Edited June 4, 2021 by myata

[Boges]

Numbers dropped to under 700 and they have been creeping up this week. Giving the "Doctors" reason to say that we can't open up early as this "spike" is due to Victoria day. 

I'm really questioning if these people can math. 

Positivity rate is now under 3% and active cases are under 10,000. 

[OftenWrong]

16 minutes ago, Boges said:

I've always thought this. 

But Lockdowns were needed at one point. 

Sure, sure. Of course. I just like how the rhetoric is ramping up.

Waiting for you people to start calling for torches at midnight. You ain't seen nothin yet, 

[Boges]

23 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Sure, sure. Of course. I just like how the rhetoric is ramping up.

Waiting for you people to start calling for torches at midnight. You ain't seen nothin yet, 

Or just quietly refuse to comply. 

[Shady]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Numbers dropped to under 700 and they have been creeping up this week. Giving the "Doctors" reason to say that we can't open up early as this "spike" is due to Victoria day. 

I'm really questioning if these people can math. 

Positivity rate is now under 3% and active cases are under 10,000. 

It really is hard to figure out what exactly they’re looking at.

[myata]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Waiting for you people to start calling for torches at midnight. You ain't seen nothin yet, 

It's been a week after Victoria holidays but the local community complains of loud midnight fireworks. Nothing seems to be done and it's just keep going. Don't want to wonder / guess what other social conventions are / will be broken the longer and deeper we dive into this.

[OftenWrong]

41 minutes ago, Shady said:

It really is hard to figure out what exactly they’re looking at.

They're quick to react on the positive spikes, and announce them by megaphone from the top of buildings, etc. Even when the numbers contain a substantial backlog of older data, which I have exposed them doing in the past. Certain factoids are excluded from that argument.

But when it comes to good news, like numbers are down, well,

it's like, I need to see it stay that way

for at least 5 days

before I even bother to think about setting your sad asses

a little more free

because that way I get a rise,

knowing I'm in charge of your sad asses

[OftenWrong]

20 hours ago, myata said:

It's been a week after Victoria holidays but the local community complains of loud midnight fireworks. Nothing seems to be done and it's just keep going. Don't want to wonder / guess what other social conventions are / will be broken the longer and deeper we dive into this.

We got the Indy 500 going on around here each night. Guys with small cars with modified exhaust.
You can hear 'em rippin it... even at 4 am!  

Cops are at home, sleeping...  
Or patrolling for any health violations

[myata]

Any good can be too much of a good ... including good government.

[Boges]

Monday's cases are 525 and ICU numbers dropped below 500. 

Looks like, unless there's a statistically unlikely surge, the lockdown ends on Friday. 

Not that there has been much compliance short of the ban on In-person Retail and Dining. 

Who wants to be in a mall when it's 35 degrees out anyway? 

[Shady]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

Monday's cases are 525 and ICU numbers dropped below 500. 

Looks like, unless there's a statistically unlikely surge, the lockdown ends on Friday. 

Not that there has been much compliance short of the ban on In-person Retail and Dining. 

Who wants to be in a mall when it's 35 degrees out anyway? 

The lockdown doesn’t end.  Gyms are still closed, even at limited capacity.  So are all restaurants and bars.  Only outdoor dining at limited capacity.  It’s absurd.

[Boges]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

The lockdown doesn’t end.  Gyms are still closed, even at limited capacity.  So are all restaurants and bars.  Only outdoor dining at limited capacity.  It’s absurd.

If you own a restaurant and you haven't looked to move your business model to outdoor dining and take-out by now, you're bad at business. 

[Zeitgeist]

Ford and Horvath might as well be in the same party.  Ford lets weeks go by while businesses hemorrhage and families fall apart under lockdown.  He’s certainly not a conservative.  Government overreach is undermining the freedom and livelihood of Ontarians.  

[myata]

50 minutes ago, Boges said:

If you own a restaurant and you haven't looked to move your business model to outdoor dining and take-out by now, you're bad at business. 

What's that supposed to mean? Blame the victims of arbitrary supported by what evidence? as inept as expensive caricature of a responsible policy?

[Shady]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

If you own a restaurant and you haven't looked to move your business model to outdoor dining and take-out by now, you're bad at business. 

Yes, blame the victim.  That’s about as shitty a take as possible.  You’re a dick.

[Boges]

19 minutes ago, Shady said:

Yes, blame the victim.  That’s about as shitty a take as possible.  You’re a dick.

Blame the victim that Amazon and businesses that are providing consumers what they want/need can't hack it. 

No one is blaming people in the service industry for losing their job. But the reality is that outdoor dining and take-out are the ways to stay solvent during this public health crisis. 

Evolve or die.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Boges

[Boges]

35 minutes ago, myata said:

What's that supposed to mean? Blame the victims of arbitrary supported by what evidence? as inept as expensive caricature of a responsible policy?

I'm saying that, to stay open this long, you've had to evolve your business model to include an emphasis on patio dining and take out. 

I think the biggest take-away from this pandemic is people realizing they spend too much money eating out. 

Ditto with E-Commerce. To survive, you needed to make buying your product seamless online. Something Amazon discovered decades ago. 

Sure it's nice to have a real store to buy certain things. But buying online is nice too. And doesn't involve crowds. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Boges

[Boges]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Ford and Horvath might as well be in the same party.  Ford lets weeks go by while businesses hemorrhage and families fall apart under lockdown.  He’s certainly not a conservative.  Government overreach is undermining the freedom and livelihood of Ontarians.  

Only Real Conservatives let Hospitals get over-run with Deathly sick people!

[myata]

54 minutes ago, Boges said:

I'm saying that, to stay open this long, you've had to evolve your business model to include an emphasis on patio dining and take out.

If some appointed, not accountable and not responsible to anybody bureaucrats will get into the habit of making rules for the market and the society on a whim and indefinitely, would it be still market economy and free, democratic society or already something else?

[Boges]

17 minutes ago, myata said:

If some appointed, not accountable and not responsible to anybody bureaucrats will get into the habit of making rules for the market and the society on a whim and indefinitely, would it be still market economy and free, democratic society or already something else?

Governments are quite accountable actually. 

I also think the decision to use Lockdowns to curb COVID-19 infection rates were not taken lightly. 

[dialamah]

7 minutes ago, Boges said:

Governments are quite accountable actually. 

I also think the decision to use Lockdowns to curb COVID-19 infection rates were not taken lightly. 

Yeah, I don't get why people think any government is happy about the hit their economy takes due to lockdowns.   Makes no sense to me; a healthy economy is lifeblood to a government. 

[myata]

13 minutes ago, Boges said:

Governments are quite accountable actualIy.

You think it could be just said, actually? Or should there also be real and practical examples of checks, controls and accountability. For example, has anyone been accountable for the "travel from Wuhan" debacle; and how much have we, the taxpayers paid for epidemiological preparedness since SARS-1 in 2002?

[Boges]

2 hours ago, myata said:

You think it could be just said, actually? Or should there also be real and practical examples of checks, controls and accountability. For example, has anyone been accountable for the "travel from Wuhan" debacle; and how much have we, the taxpayers paid for epidemiological preparedness since SARS-1 in 2002?

We've had travel to India banned from the get-go and the Delta Variant still got into Canada. 

Anyone who thinks that banning travel to China in February 2020 was going to change anything about this pandemic is a moron. 

[myata]

May not be easy to grasp in this tradition that government accountability, checks and balances, they are not some pretty thingies, bells-whistle decorations to make democracy look more cute, here we have it too. No it's much more than that it's probably critical may very well be, the only one and quite possibly avoidable only at a very high cost to the society mechanism to produce quality, or just reasonable decisions. Especially in the complex and dynamic world of today. So no, just the government thinks and government wants is not enough, not even close.

Example 1: as already commented in some thread, another Covid, a different one combined with carefree "not a problem!" could have as consequence a national disaster. Just make the incubation period count in months rather than weeks.

Example 2: in 2002-2006 several countries had world's highest casualties with SARS (Cov-1) and MERS. Do check how they're doing with SARS-2, 15-19 years on. For 15 to nineteen years we paid, sponsored epidemiological preparedness so that SARS and MERS never repeated. What happened to that time and our money? What were they spent on all this time and where's the result for the society that has paid for it?

Example 3: a bureaucrat today deciding should the lockdown be 22 weeks or 26. What factors, considerations they take into account? What considerations tell the bureaucrat no that is not acceptable the cost will be too high. None. Nada. Cases are 500 sure just two more weeks lets make it 300. Why? Why asked and who answered?

Very clearly this isn't working, can't work and won't be working in this century. Without accountability and effective oversight we'll end up only with more mediocre to plain bad decisions for ever rising cost. And this is a no-brainer.

[myata]

21 minutes ago, Boges said:

We've had travel to India banned from the get-go and the Delta Variant still got into Canada.

Reality check:

New India variant first detected: October 2020

Canada suspended travel from India: April 22, 2021

That leaves: October-November-December-January-February-March-April to the "get-go". Though maybe that's how it, "get-go" is defined in the bureaucratic circles? then sure travel from Wuhan was lightning fast. And "rapid Covid response" (over $1 billion) may still make it in time for the next epidemic.

Then, "morons" must mean people like Australia; New Zealand; Taiwan who closed their airspace on the first news of a "new potentially dangerous virus from China". Now look who's the smart one here (Australia, population 30 M casualties 910; Ontario population 14 M casualties 8,860).

Don't know who thinks what but at this level of factual correctness even minimal further investment of time wouldn't make much sense.

Edited June 8, 2021 by myata