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Is Doug Ford handling the Covid 19 outbreak good?  

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3 days of 1,100 new cases. 

It's weird how these numbers plateau for a few days then drop. It seems to work the same way going up. 

I guess it's a factor that the numbers we get aren't people testing positive that day. It's at least a day or two later so the reporting is far from real time positive results. 

At this rate, if Victoria Day doesn't produce a bump, we'll be under 1,000 cases by June. 

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By all signs and I'd like to be mistaken on that, the new grand idea is to imitate Australia and drive cases to zero or very near by stretching the quarantine (in the real sense if not in the name) as long as it takes. Sure but to do Australia one needs to 1) be smart 2) be efficient and 3) have good geographical isolation and very few of these conditions can be found (yes, very mildly speaking).

So no, not going to work. And so yes, all eggs in one, vaccination basket. Meaning that if, Heavens forbid, the cases begin creeping up again come fall months, the people would be completely disappointed (yes, stronger terms are possible) with any new quarantines and the policy may end up in an accomplished face plant. Not like such a scenario would be entirely outlandish, given the record.

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On 5/28/2020 at 2:59 PM, Boges said:

It's so convenient that you can play the result that the Social Distancing actually did work and accuse everyone of being weak because it worked.  

Well no, to have an honest discussion one needs to separate these approaches:

1. Effective targeted intervention where the risk of transmission/severe outcome is significantly higher, without or with very limited impact on general public (for whom the risk is much lower).

2. Effective measures of universal application that are easy and not taxing on general public, such as social distancing (note that the effectiveness has to be proven and demonstrated, not just assumed and/or mandated).

3. And finally, heavy blank measures such as widespread closures and lockdowns.

Note that this discussion never happened in the whole 18 months and counting. Somehow, by some expert trick of hand, it glided easily and smoothly right into p.3 and we (the public) are presented not with the argument but the result, the decision and fait accompli.

The trick is slick for sure. Just don't assume that is not seen, and not making people question the motive and the argument behind it.

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3 hours ago, Boges said:

3 days of 1,100 new cases. 

It's weird how these numbers plateau for a few days then drop. It seems to work the same way going up. 

I guess it's a factor that the numbers we get aren't people testing positive that day. It's at least a day or two later so the reporting is far from real time positive results. 

At this rate, if Victoria Day doesn't produce a bump, we'll be under 1,000 cases by June. 

It is the PCR tests that your dear comrade leaders are using to either up the cases of Covid or bring down the cases of Covid. The PCR tests is said to be unreliable. The cases will either go up or stabilize but will never drop to near zero. Your dear comrade leaders want to keep this scamdemic going. It's in their best interests and control and a money maker to be had from keeping this scamdemic Covid bull going. 

Why is it that some people who have taken the shot want everybody else to take the shot? If one is vaccinated twice then they should be safe from getting Covid and from people who refuse to be vaccinated. There have even been many people who are getting Covid even after being vaccinated. Wtf is that all about? Well, I think that I know why?

Because vaccinations and clown masks do F all. Only fools and idiots think and believe that a Covid vaccine jab will save their sorry asses. Those protein spikes will not save your sorry asses one bit. They are going to do more harm then good. This will no doubt be noticed come this fall when the flu or another Covid ha-ha season comes around. 

I hope that I am wrong on this, but from what I have been reading, it will get bloody worse come this fall. We will have to see what happens then come this fall. Some of my family members have taken the jab. Now I am quite concerned about their health and safety and what may happen in the next few months. I must now just wait and see. :(

FREE THE FACE. ABOLISH THE MASK. 

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

I don't want to let the insanity of that post go by without a response. But how do you debate someone who refuse to believe the COVID-19 pandemic is real? 

You get that for the carelessness, irresponsibility ("travel from Wuhan") combined with arrogance, entitlement, ineptitude and incompetence down to plain nonsense.

I'll watch here, on the line. Between the two, there isn't a good option.

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5 hours ago, Boges said:

I don't want to let the insanity of that post go by without a response. But how do you debate someone who refuse to believe the COVID-19 pandemic is real? 

By yourself proving that Covid virus does really exist and has been a great threat to everyone on earth. Many other alternative doctors and scientists and other health experts have said that this virus is no more serious or dangerous than any other virus that has come along in the past several decades.

And those many alternative doctors and scientists and health experts have great backgrounds and all  have said that the Covid vaccine is a dangerous vaccine as it is supposed to be an experimental gene therapy vaccine and it is still in it's early stages and trials. 

Just because your dear leftist liberal political leaders, the leftist media, and those so called leftist health ministers and experts say that this Covid virus was one of the worse ever, does not mean that this is true. How does anyone like me debate with someone who refuses to listen to the other side before they open their leftist liberal mouths. HELLO? ;)

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Just now, taxme said:

By yourself proving that Covid virus does really exist and has been a great threat to everyone on earth. Many other alternative doctors and scientists and other health experts have said that this virus is no more serious or dangerous than any other virus that has come along in the past several decades.

The fact that over half of Ontario ICU beds were filled with people Variants of COVID-19 probably doesn't convince you. Because you question those number in the first place. You have to have some baseline trust in government figures. 

It would be a bit easier to manage if COVID was more deadly than it is. People we die quick and not spread it and take up Hospital resources. This is probably why SARS petered out in 2003. 

In Ontario we're just waiting for people on Ventilators to die or recover so the Healthcare system can recover from the 3rd wave. 

Quote

And those many alternative doctors and scientists and health experts have great backgrounds and all  have said that the Covid vaccine is a dangerous vaccine as it is supposed to be an experimental gene therapy vaccine and it is still in it's early stages and trials. 

Just because your dear leftist liberal political leaders, the leftist media, and those so called leftist health ministers and experts say that this Covid virus was one of the worse ever, does not mean that this is true. How does anyone like me debate with someone who refuses to listen to the other side before they open their leftist liberal mouths. HELLO? ;)

60% of Canadian adult have had at least one dose of the vaccine. If it was that dangerous we'd know about it. 

A vast majority of adults I know got the vaccine. Short of some expected side-effects (some worse than others) none have reported any long lasting issues with the vaccine. 

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17 hours ago, Boges said:

The fact that over half of Ontario ICU beds were filled with people Variants of COVID-19 probably doesn't convince you. Because you question those number in the first place. You have to have some baseline trust in government figures. 

It would be a bit easier to manage if COVID was more deadly than it is. People we die quick and not spread it and take up Hospital resources. This is probably why SARS petered out in 2003. 

In Ontario we're just waiting for people on Ventilators to die or recover so the Healthcare system can recover from the 3rd wave. 

60% of Canadian adult have had at least one dose of the vaccine. If it was that dangerous we'd know about it. 

A vast majority of adults I know got the vaccine. Short of some expected side-effects (some worse than others) none have reported any long lasting issues with the vaccine. 

I giess the fact that our health care system is a POS that only took a few hundred critical cases to shut it down does not faze you. In Manitoba theyre on their knees at a mere 50 cases.

Edited by OftenWrong
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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

I giess the fact that our health care system is a POS that only took a few hundred critical cases to shut it down does not faze you. In Manitoba theyre on their knees at a mere 50 cases.

ICU near capacity -> cry disaster -> call the army -> limit store capacity and make folks line for hours.

That works, sure. Now, who was paid ,000,000 for epidemiological preparedness including sufficient capacity of the system if/when needed? Moot point. The job was to write and dictate not to do and accomplish.

Edited by myata
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1 hour ago, myata said:

ICU near capacity -> cry disaster -> call the army -> limit store capacity and make folks line for hours.

That works, sure. Now, who was paid ,000,000 for epidemiological preparedness including sufficient capacity of the system if/when needed? Moot point. The job was to write and dictate not to do and accomplish.

By now this should be old news. Hello, can I get an instant replay? It's been almost two years of this crap but no real improvements toward management of an outbreak has been made. None at all.

I'm talking about promises to improve the situation in specifically identified high-risk areas. Not stupid and hurtful cart-blank shutdowns instutued province-wide by some meatheaded gorrila.

 

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Plan c, after the shit is over and the lawsuits backlog the courts for years, let's look at legislating certain provisions to limit the power of these government goonies. There should be specific limits to the power of government to implement by enforcement any emergency measures. No matter what kind of emergency measures they are.

They can recommend all they want, but that's it.

Edited by OftenWrong
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10 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

They can recommend all they want, but that's it.

When was it said that absolute (aka non accountable, opaque and responsible to nobody) power corrupts? Did we hope to find something new in this eternal story?

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8 minutes ago, myata said:

When was it said that absolute (aka non accountable, opaque and responsible to nobody) power corrupts? Did we hope to find something new in this eternal story?

That's why instead of government we should have a council of volunteers that meets on a bi-weekly basis, and makes recommendations only.

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24 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

That's why instead of government we should have a council of volunteers that meets on a bi-weekly basis, and makes recommendations only.

One person, randomly selected, who doesn't know why (s)he is being asked the question.

Must have a cat.

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19 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

One person, randomly selected, who doesn't know why (s)he is being asked the question.

It can work, though. And the alternative is status quo, that is overpaid, incompetent and carefree bureaucracy. For a great example, check the list of countries with the highest casualties of SARS (2002) and how they are doing now with Covid.

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11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I giess the fact that our health care system is a POS that only took a few hundred critical cases to shut it down does not faze you. In Manitoba theyre on their knees at a mere 50 cases.

The same thing has happened in just about every country where COVID-19 has gotten a foothold. 

I suspect you don't know the severity of an ICU bed. You essentially go there to be kept alive. 

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42 minutes ago, Boges said:

The same thing has happened in just about every country where COVID-19 has gotten a foothold. 

I suspect you don't know the severity of an ICU bed. You essentially go there to be kept alive. 

Cite where countries cancelled their non-emergency surgeries and other life- saving procedures in liue of covid bed.

Ive already shown how Canada entered the covid disaster at one of the highest hospital bed occupancy rates, 90% full on a good day.

I know how that happened, I saw it happening. Anecdotally, the business class took over and ran hospitals as though they were garment factories. Sewing people together with a needle and thread.

Those idiots had no idea what the consequences would be if a disease broke out. 

Then along came the angel of death.

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10 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Those idiots had no idea what the consequences would be if a disease broke out. 

Then along came the angel of death.

While getting million $ golden parachutes for the mediocre effort. How can a public CEO be less entitled than his or her private peer? That would go against any notion of fairness! The performance... sorry need to run to the meeting!

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OK I understand first in (the restrictions, including for example, foreign travel), last out as very cautions. Last in, first out can be understood as hands off, lasse-faire.

But what is "last in, last out"? How can we understand that, and what does it do? Other than maybe, just slow to get it.

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On 5/29/2021 at 9:10 PM, OftenWrong said:

Cite where countries cancelled their non-emergency surgeries and other life- saving procedures in liue of covid bed.

Ive already shown how Canada entered the covid disaster at one of the highest hospital bed occupancy rates, 90% full on a good day.

I know how that happened, I saw it happening. Anecdotally, the business class took over and ran hospitals as though they were garment factories. Sewing people together with a needle and thread.

Those idiots had no idea what the consequences would be if a disease broke out. 

Then along came the angel of death.

I do know that many other places in the US and Europe had to implement triage protocols. Something Ontario did avoid. 

I can't imagine the cost to families of these "long-hauler" COVD-19 patients in the US where Healthcare isn't guaranteed. It's no surprise their death rate is more than double ours. 

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4 hours ago, Boges said:

It's no surprise their death rate is more than double ours. 

Density of population in Canada and Ontario is nowhere near that of Europe. And then there's South Korea and Japan with significantly better results. Norther Europe has similar density of population, culture and the climate and the results the are significantly better without marathonic lockdowns. Why do we always compare with the worst, not best?

OK that part is clear at least. The bureaucracy that ran away with running itself here cannot produce world-class results (this is twenty years after SARS that wasn't a success either) and so it has to find other benchmarks of which always going to be plenty including if need be, the third world.

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16 minutes ago, myata said:

Density of population in Canada and Ontario is nowhere near that of Europe. And then there's South Korea and Japan with significantly better results. Norther Europe has similar density of population, culture and the climate and the results the are significantly better without marathonic lockdowns. Why do we always compare with the worst, not best?

OK that part is clear at least. The bureaucracy that ran away with running itself here cannot produce world-class results (this is twenty years after SARS that wasn't a success either) and so it has to find other benchmarks of which always going to be plenty including if need be, the third world.

We can compare with the best on vaccination? Now 2nd in the G7 for first dose vaccination rate. 

Asian cultures seem way more compliant in the face of public health measures. That being said, Japan may see the Olympics cancelled or postponed again because of a recent outbreak. 

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18 hours ago, myata said:

Density of population in Canada and Ontario is nowhere near that of Europe. And then there's South Korea and Japan with significantly better results. Norther Europe has similar density of population, culture and the climate and the results the are significantly better without marathonic lockdowns. Why do we always compare with the worst, not best?

OK that part is clear at least. The bureaucracy that ran away with running itself here cannot produce world-class results (this is twenty years after SARS that wasn't a success either) and so it has to find other benchmarks of which always going to be plenty including if need be, the third world.

I have no doubt that what we did in Ontario, lockdowns had only a minimal benefit. One piece of evidence is the third wave.

When you go outside you see there is no quarantine or stay-at-home order being followed. Yet businesses remain shuttered. They should have been allowed to remain open, to minimize the economic damage and would have had little to no effect on the "quarantine".

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2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I have no doubt that what we did in Ontario, lockdowns had only a minimal benefit. One piece of evidence is the third wave.

When you go outside you see there is no quarantine or stay-at-home order being followed. Yet businesses remain shuttered. They should have been allowed to remain open, to minimize the economic damage and would have had little to no effect on the "quarantine".

So you don't buy the narrative that variants effected things. 

We spent all of last year thinking that this disease was a disease that mostly effected old people and if young people got it, they could spread it, but unless there was some co-morbidity, you'd be fine. This led to frantically getting older people vaccinated and protecting older populations that, by and large, could already isolate themselves. 

But when variants hit, it was the young people working front-line essential jobs in densely populated areas that led to the spread. The ICUs were filling up with younger working people and not old people in LTC homes. 

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