Immigrants cost Canada $30 billion per year

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, jacee said:

No, it's just the same old prejudice, in particular anti-Muslim prejudice now,  

This is funded by wealthy bigots, who are gaming Facebook and similar sites to generate fear.  

[jacee]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

This is funded by wealthy bigots, who are gaming Facebook and similar sites to generate fear.  

The anti-immigrant sentiment has always been there through many waves of newcomers, but it is more viral and more virulent and does seem more manufactured now. I'm not really sure whose purposes it serves ...  but I think it's very sad that some people spend their lives trying to make up reasons to hate other human beings.

Hark! Here's one now. Lol 

Edited September 2, 2019 by jacee

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

Far more immigrants are drug dealers, uber drivers and janitors than nurses and teachers.

I prefer hard working janitors and uber drivers than those who feel superior and full of air looking down at others who may not be as fortunate. As for drug dealers it is pure nonsense without a shred of evidence and fact. Lies and false allegations.I see hard working immigrants in my every day life. There are some portion who turn criminals or involved in criminal activities but by far a tiny minority.

Edited September 2, 2019 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, bcsapper said:

 

Sure.  Why do you need 300000 jobs?  You said yourself we need to cut immigration levels in half and be more selective.  Let's select people who want to settle somewhere outside the lower 100 miles.

Like I said, ask them.

You never answered my question.  Why are people who live in northern and remote communities second class citizens?

Select the right people based on adaptability, education and assets not location who in long term will not contribute. Not 300,000 are there 100,000 jobs in areas where 2% of population lives?

Because that is not what I said. I said if we don't give an equal right of choice on where to live to new immigrants then they become second class citizens.

[cougar]

2 hours ago, jacee said:

I think it's very sad that some people spend their lives trying to make up reasons to hate other human beings.

Being anti-immigration minded doesn't mean one hates anyone.

But since "immigration" is associated with "visible minorities" (don't ask me why), it is presumed the immigrants come from India, China, Middle East, Africa, Central, South America or Mexico.  The other ones that speak with a strong accent will be deemed immigrants too.   I imagine a British, Irish, South African white etc would be considered less of an immigrant.

So there is those who do not want to grow our population like we are a human farm.  And there are those who want to see more people like themselves.

The latter are hammered by our government because nationalism (in this case racism) is not good for business.

 

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Or like Stalin Russia you deport skilled workers to cold remote areas to build houses and work in mines in exile for 3 years?

WTF is the matter with you people why do you have to pepper virtually every goddamn thing you post about with the stupidest sorts of references and comparisons to mass murderers in history?  STFU already..

Edited September 2, 2019 by eyeball

[Zeitgeist]

12 hours ago, jacee said:

Yes there are doctor shortages in Vancouver, and in southern Ontario cities too.  

The doctor shortages are because of lack of funding for regular medical school spots, and for requalification spots for doctors who immigrate here, arguably, because the current medical establishment assures itself of lots of patients and high incomes.  

You keep talking as if there are labour shortages in northern cities. Do you have any evidence to support that? 

Many medical students, including international ones, take their credentials elsewhere.  The shortages are most acute in the north.  

Government can have healthy macroeconomic policies that seed development and settlement, as they did in Canada’s early settlement.  Sure we can be asleep at the wheel and most immigrants will settle in Toronto while the north remains moribund. At that point what are we striving for as a country?

it’s better for Canada and the planet to have multiple mid-sized cities scattered across the country north and south than to have s continuous megalopolis along our southern border and a wasteland in most of the north.   Toronto and Vancouver will continue to grow rapidly no matter what.   

[jacee]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Many medical students, including international ones, take their credentials elsewhere.   

Doctors can't practice in Canada without going through a requalification program. It's lengthy and expensive with limited spots per year ... so they drive cabs. 

However, you will be pleased to know that some doctors qualifying in Canada are required to do placements in the north. 

Quote

...the

 north remains moribund. 

Link? 

I'm not sure people in the north would agree with your negative characterization, and you haven't provided any evidence to support any such claims. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by jacee

[Argus]

Double post because of dumb software.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Argus

[Argus]

18 hours ago, jacee said:

Well, Shady, it's fake.
So don't get your hopes up. Lol
If we magically got rid of all the immigrants (1985 to present), we would lose $75b/year in tax revenues.
If you read the article to see what the main point is,  it isn't about the costs of immigrants or immigration at all.

If you read and UNDERSTOOD the article it was entirely about costs to government outweighing revenues from immigrants.

[Argus]

17 hours ago, jacee said:

No, it's just the same old prejudice, in particular anti-Muslim prejudice now, and business leaders stirring  up those prejudices among people who are fearful for their jobs. Keeps them subservient so they don't ask for raises, and if they lose their job, they'll blame 'the immigrants' instead of their bosses. Lol

You continue to try and find some evil group responsible for making Canadians unhappy with immigration, and all you demonstrate is how out of touch with reality you are.

Corporate Canada is and has always been enthusiastic supporters of wide open immigration. They're the ones who benefit from it, after all.

[taxme]

17 hours ago, jacee said:

The anti-immigrant sentiment has always been there through many waves of newcomers, but it is more viral and more virulent and does seem more manufactured now. I'm not really sure whose purposes it serves ...  but I think it's very sad that some people spend their lives trying to make up reasons to hate other human beings.

Hark! Here's one now. Lol 

 

Hark, here is one anti-immigrant Canadian that has his own opinion on immigration in Canada. Lol.

So, why does Canada keep bringing in hundreds of thousands of new immigrants/refugees to Canada when Canada's birth rate is higher than it's death rate? 

So, why does Canada keep bringing in more new immigrants/refugees when all that means is that there will be a need for more infrastructure and more services and benefits? What is the point? 

So, why does Canada not want to take in white South Africans but has no problem bringing in hundreds of thousands of non-white immigrants/refugees into Canada? Those SA people would have a lot to contribute to Canada. Most of the so called refugees that cannot find employment are sucking off the rest of we the white Canadian people by the billions every year. 

If it is going to cost the host Canadian taxpayer's 30 billion of their hard earned tax dollars on immigration every year, and it could be higher for all we know, and then it could start costing more tax dollars to maybe even go higher with more coming to Canada, then I do not see the point of more immigration at all. Your dear leader globalist/comrade Trudeau and his Somali Muslim immigration minister wants to flood Canada with another million new immigrants/refugees in the next three years. This is insane. Canada is not ready to take on another million in three years. By that time I think that it would be safe to say that immigrants could cost us a lot more than 30 billion a year.

It sure looks to me these days that the Canadian government is racist towards white immigration. For a country that is supposed to be majority white, why would it want to try and replace it' white majority by bringing in more non-whites than whites? 85% of our new immigrants/refugees are coming from non-white countries. If that is not racial genocide/suicide, what the hell is? Myself, I would much prefer to have a moratorium on immigration for at least five years while we try to get our unemployment rates down. Only fools and idiots want more immigration itno Canada. Want to call me a racist now?

"Hark" that. Works for me. Lol. 

[Argus]

18 hours ago, marcus said:

We are 'importing' tradesmen through the immigration program. We are also 'importing' people in other sectors that are desperately needed in Canada.

There is ample evidence that we have labour shortage and this labour shortage is affecting businesses in a negative way. Stop denying facts:

There is no labour shortage, as attested to by the parliamentary budget office, except in areas like agriculture and fisheries, because people don't want to go to those places and do manual labour - not when they have pogey to fall back on. Other shortages are fleeting, or based on the growing habit of business to refuse to pay reasonable wages, and to instead whine to the government so they can hire TFWs. 65% of graduating computer engineers left Canada last year. Meanwhile, technology companies whined to government about labour shortages, and imported thousands and thousands of workers from India and China willing to work cheap.

Also, your Wall-O-Pictograms impress no one but the weak minded, and make it difficult to respond to your posts.

Quote

No one said they stop paying taxes. What was said was that the retired don't pay enough towards social services to make up for what they're costing social services.

The only additional social services they use are health care. And clearly that isn't an issue for a government intent on bringing hundreds of thousands of elderly immigrants to Canada in the coming years.

Quote

The total number admitted through the economic category was 155,994, which is majority of the immigrants coming to Canada.

Yes, but that number includes both the principal applicant, ie, the skilled person, and his wife and children. Therefore the actual number of skilled people who come in is only 17%, as written by the cite I posted - by a former head of Immigration Canada.

Quote

This whole thing about "everyone in the family must be assessed for language" is not going to fly. It's about whether or not an immigrant can become economically established and how well they will do in the long run, including their children.

It's about how well they do NOW, not how their children do. If it was about their kids then we'd have no need of a points system since we could just bring in anyone, knowing their kids would perform well here.

Quote

As I have shown you repeatedly, the children of immigrants

So then why have a points system at all? Why not just open the borders and let anyone in?

Quote

How about I am going to continue to live in Canada, while promoting real Canadian values, and you can go and isolate yourself, repeating misinformation, avoiding reality in your bubble of ignorance and bigotry.

Why? I mean that honestly. You clearly don't like Canadians. You don't know, respect or share Canadian values. Your belief any but a minority agree with your eagerness to drown this country in ever larger numbers of immigrants only demonstrates that further.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Argus

[CITIZEN_2015]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

WTF is the matter with you people why do you have to pepper virtually every goddamn thing you post about with the stupidest sorts of references and comparisons to mass murderers in history?  STFU already..

Do not make idiotic comments out of total ignorance. I was referring to the sending to exile action of post revolutionary Russia in response to someone who was suggesting sending new arrivals to northern cold areas and remote areas not the mass murder committed by the  regime. Go back to high school and learn how to read and understand and learn how to properly debate topics without making personal attacks.

Edited September 2, 2019 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

18 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

This is funded by wealthy bigots, who are gaming Facebook and similar sites to generate fear.  

Drivel. Conspiracy theories without evidence.

[Argus]

17 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I prefer hard working janitors and uber drivers than those who feel superior and full of air looking down at others who may not be as fortunate.

And I prefer people who pay taxes rather than demand the government raise mine so they don't have to.

[Argus]

15 hours ago, cougar said:

The latter are hammered by our government because nationalism (in this case racism) is not good for business.

Nationalism does not imply racism. Wanting to protect your country's culture, values and beliefs is not racist. Nor is there any evidence that countries which do so suffer from any sort of condemnation.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Argus

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

And I prefer people who pay taxes rather than demand the government raise mine so they don't have to.

Those people are among those born here too and not limited to some immigrants. Percentage wise it is likely higher among new immigrants because they need time to adjust, learn the language for some and acquired skills to make it in the new land. But yes as I have said again and again we have to be more selective not totally ban immigration. I see hard working immigrants in my every day life who are also tax payers so painting all immigrant with the same brush saying that they don't pay taxes and demand government to raise yours is a BIG LIE.

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Nationalism does not imply racism. Wanting to protect your country's culture, values and beliefs is not racist. Nor is there any evidence that countries which do so suffer from any sort of condemnation.

I agree. But state the facts as they are to advance your side of debate. Don't manipulate facts and figures. 

Facts:

There are some immigrants who are a burden on our social programs not all.

There is a long term net economic benefit from immigration not loss.

Canadians are more prosperous now compare to the past likely due to immigration resulting in faster economic growth and GDP per capita.

There are some immigrant who turn to crimes but not all and some Canadian born who also turn to crimes though percentage wise it is likely higher among immigrants (again selectivity) plays a major role).

Our health and education and other social programs are overcrowded so that those born and pay taxes all their lives cannot receive the quality care when they need so we need to cut back on immigration but not stop it.

There is a danger of cultural conflict as we have open the doors to those who differ in their beliefs as we stand n equality and respect for women and western style democracy so again we must become more selective and make adaptability the main criterion and cut back on immigration levels to minimize tge potential for future conflict.

 

 

[Argus]

6 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Those people are among those born here too and not limited to some immigrants. Percentage wise it is likely higher among new immigrants because they need time to adjust, learn the language for some and acquired skills to make it in the new land. But yes as I have said again and again we have to be more selective not totally ban immigration. I see hard working immigrants in my every day life who are also tax payers so painting all immigrant with the same brush saying that they don't pay taxes and demand government to raise yours is a BIG LIE.

No one has said all immigrants are criminals or no immigrants pay taxes. The study indicates that immigrants pay lower taxes due to lower economic success, which creates a disparity between what goverment spends on them and what it takes in from them. Also, no one has proposed ZERO immigration. Virtually every argument about immigration I've seen or made is that we are taking in too many, and that too many of those we take in have little chance of economic success due to lack of language skills and applicable job skills. It really doesn't matter if they have a degree in something if their English (or French) is so poor no one will hire them for it.  You can swing a hammer with poor English, as the Portuguese and Italians used to do, but you can't be a financial analyst when you can't properly understand, much less write reports. The same goes for doctors.

Australia tightened up its language requirements, and prioritized people coming in from English speaking countries and their immigrants now do much better economically. We ought to do the same.

[Argus]

Just now, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I agree. But state the facts as they are to advance your side of debate. Don't manipulate facts and figures. 

Facts:

There are some immigrants who are a burden on our social programs not all.

There is a long term net economic benefit from immigration not loss.

I've already posted several cites which show that there is little economic benefit other than to overall GDP, including some from the former head of Canada's immigration program.

Just now, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Canadians are more prosperous now compare to the past likely due to immigration resulting in faster economic growth and GDP per capita.

This too is speculation on your part.

The rest of your post I have no argument with.

 

[Moonlight Graham]

22 hours ago, jacee said:

Why not provide northern  incentives to all Canadians?

I would think natural market forces should drive people to work north.  Thinks like jobs and cheaper housing.

There's lots of jobs in Toronto, but it's still odd to me that a refugee would want to live in Toronto given the cost of housing etc.  If a refugee is going to go work in a low-skill job as a truck driver or in a Timmies, they could do that literally anywhere in the country.  I think a lot of immigrants just move where they already have family/friends.

[Argus]

19 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I would think natural market forces should drive people to work north.  Thinks like jobs and cheaper housing.

They would but the government does its best to ensure that does not happen. For example, if you look at Marcus' Wall-O-Pictograms posted above, which purports to show labour shortages, you'll see that the region with the worst labour shortages is Atlantic Canada. But wait, the highest unemployment rates in Canada are in the Atlantic region! Every province there has unemployment greater than the national average, peaking at Newfoundland's 12.4%! How can this be!?

First, the government deters people from taking jobs through high unemployment and welfare payments. Yes, they're mostly crappy jobs in fish processing plants and the like, but the market would say people would take them anyway. And if they didn't, then the fish plant and potato chip companies would increase wages until they attracted enough workers. Newfoundlanders traveled across the country to work in Alberta for high wages. They won't travel a hundred miles to work in a potato chip factory, though. Why? Because the wages suck. Why haven't they risen? Because the companies don't need to raise wages. They just tell the government they can't get workers, and the government okays them bringing in thousands of TFWs to do those jobs. This keeps the Irvings happy, because they get an obedient, low paid labour force AND low corporate taxes. It keeps the government happy because they can act munificent by offering money to the unemployed.

So we pay people to sit on their butts while immigrants come in and do the work.

Then people say we have labour shortages and must bring in more immigrants! But almost all the immigrants go to Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. They're not going to Atlantic Canada (and even when Atlantic Canada recruits them directly most of them leave for Toronto as soon as they can), they're not going to Northern Ontario, nor to rural BC.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Argus

[Dougie93]

16 hours ago, eyeball said:

WTF is the matter with you people why do you have to pepper virtually every goddamn thing you post about with the stupidest sorts of references and comparisons to mass murderers in history?  STFU already..

Dear Mister Stalin was our Stalwart Ally in the Second World War; not one step back in the face of the Third Reich.

In the Cold War; Comrade Stalin liquidated the Bolsheviks for us and overthrew the World Socialist Revolution in favour of failed state Socialism In One Country.

Nobody killed more Nazis than Koba.

Nobody killed more Commies than Koba.

Koba saved the West.

[jacee]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

And I prefer people who pay taxes rather than demand the government raise mine so they don't have to.

I prefer the wealthy hypocrites pay their taxes owing on their offshore money.