Immigrants cost Canada $30 billion per year

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You really can't handle that more immigrants want to go to America than Canada, can you? The tides are not turning at all, wishful thinking is a helluva drug.

The city of Toronto added 77000 people last year, three times as many as number two Phoenix.   That’s not even the Greater Toronto Area.  Say what you want about the US, which is desirable/undesirable for various reasons.  We have masses of people trying to come here and that reality must be managed effectively.  

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

Canada can't handle the immigrant because it is a moribund socialist economy.

 

Right, which points right back to the OP...the very high cost of continuing the socialist economy (Eskimo Communism) for a huge surge in immigration/refugees.

 

 

[Zeitgeist]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Are you joking ?    My company took advantage of the Canadian IT sweatshops in Toronto and Montreal, paying immigrants far less but keeping them on your side of the border.    We called it "nearshoring".  Those that did come stateside were promptly shipped back to play more visa games in the future.   Takes years to get permanent U.S. residency (green card), even for Canadian citizens.    

Go north !   Yeah, like that's gonna work.   Good luck wit that.   

Hell, there are Canadian citizens fighting for work in the U.S. too....100's of thousands.

I don’t know any, though I know a few people who worked in the US.  Some of them didn’t like it and came back; some stayed.  Wooptie do.  

This topic isn’t about Canada versus US.  It’s about the costs versus benefits of immigration, the nature of the various immigrant groups, and how best to manage immigration, an important consideration for a country with high immigration levels.  

Edited September 8, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

The City of Toronto, blah, blah, blah . . .

People's Republic of Toronto lives in its own little world

Declaration of Independence

Dark Forces of American Freedom

Down with the pretenders to the throne in the Ivory Towers of Toronto.

God bless America.   God save the Queen,

[bush_cheney2004]

 

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The city of Toronto added 77000 people last year, three times as many as number two Phoenix.   That’s not even the Greater Toronto Area.  Say what you want about the US, which is desirable/undesirable for various reasons.  We have masses of people trying to come here and that reality must be managed effectively.  

 

How would it be cost effective to support mandatory residency in the north ?

Do services cost less there....no....they cost a lot more.

[Zeitgeist]

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

 

How would it be cost effective to support mandatory residency in the north ?

Do services cost less there....no....they cost a lot more.

It’s a perennial problem trying to develop resources in the north without a resident workforce, even a temporary one.  The small existing communities are often reliant on ice roads only open a few months a year and planes, which makes products and trade expensive and is of course a health and safety risk without medical and other services close by.  The southern cities thrive mostly due to economy of scale.  It pays for infrastructure and leads to greater efficiencies.  I’m not even advocating that immigrants in a certain category only move to remote areas, but surely there is plenty of opportunity in smaller cities and towns north of, say, Barrie, Ontario.  Northern development should become a focus.  It would bring jobs to struggling Indigenous communities as well.  It would take pressure off public services, transportation networks, and home prices in the major cities.  

Edited September 8, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Right, which points right back to the OP...the very high cost of continuing the socialist economy (Eskimo Communism) for a huge surge in immigration/refugees.

The price shall be the Confederation itself.

French Ethnonationalist State.

Special deal for Nouvelle France by order of  Vicky Hanover in the name of God himself.

God, Queen, Country.

God and our right.

God our vindicator.

I remember.

Long live the free Quebec.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Dougie93

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

... It pays for infrastructure and leads to greater efficiencies.  I’m not even advocating that immigrants in a certain category only move to remote areas, but surely there is plenty of opportunity in smaller cities and towns north of, say, Barrie, Ontario.  Northern development should become a focus.  It would bring jobs to struggling Indigenous communities as well.  I would take pressure of public services, transportation networks, and home prices in the major cities.  

 

And if it worked so well and was sustainable without huge subsidies then it would have happened already and continue happening.   Investors would flock to the great opportunities "up north", far beyond cabin cottage country, which already telegraphs what is really economically possible.

If Canada wants more immigrants, then be ready to pay the higher costs, as virtue signaling can become very expensive.

The "major cities" will continue to choke on their own development ideology.

Edited September 8, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

And if it worked so well and was sustainable without huge subsidies then it would have happened already and continue happening.   Investors would flock to the great opportunities "up north", far beyond cabin cottage country, which already telegraphs what is really economically possible.

If Canada wants more immigrants, then be ready to pay the higher costs, as virtue signaling can become very expensive.

The "major cities" will continue to choke on their own development ideology.

I think we could divert about half of current immigration levels, about 150000-200000, under a residential requirement.  We’d still retain other categories.   Bottom line is that immigration has to work for Canada.  If immigrants under such a category can’t find jobs outside the Greater Golden Horseshoe, Greater Montreal, and BC’s lower mainland within a year of arrival and cannot sustain employment and residency for a few years, it’s probably best not to grant citizenship.  Citizenship has to be granted in such a category based on more than just an interview and paper exercise.  Experience in the country is the real proving ground.  

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think we could divert about half of current immigration levels, about 150000-200000, under a residential requirement

Non starter.  Unconstitutional. 

Overthrown by Charter challenge with ease. 

Not subject to the Notwithstanding Clause.

Not gonna happen.

Eskimo Communists be hand waving up in here, folks.

[Dougie93]

It's funny how Zeitgeist assets the Canada Act to be a de facto republic.

Then he turns around and advocates a policy which was rendered prohibited by the Canada Act for all time.

Eskimo Communists can;t even keep their own shit straight.

Post National State Clown Show.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

It's funny how Zeitgeist assets the Canada Act to be a de facto republic.

Then he turns around and advocates a policy which was rendered prohibited by the Canada Act for all time.

Eskimo Communists can;t even keep their own shit straight.

Post National State Clown Show.

Someone on a work permit as a seasonal worker can’t then go and apply for year-round permanent employment.  Conditions are set all the time on non-citizens working in Canada.  Until citizenship is granted, of course there can be residential requirements.  Nothing to do with the Charter.  Don’t want citizenship?   Don’t apply.   Once citizenship is granted all residential restrictions end.  

[Dougie93]

10 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Someone on a work permit as a seasonal worker can’t then go and apply for year-round permanent employment.  Conditions are set all the time on non-citizens working in Canada.  Until citizenship is granted, of course there can be residential requirements.  Nothing to do with the Charter.  Don’t want citizenship?   Don’t apply.   Once citizenship is granted all residential restrictions end.  

All persons are protected by the Charter in Canada, whether citizens or not, to include foreigners on Canadian soil.

Section 6 of the Charter prohibits residential restrictions imposed for all, Section 6 is not subject to the Notwithstanding Clause.

Once again, Eskimo Communists don't actually know what is in the Constitution. 

Julie Payette is not Queen, resindential requirements are unconstitutional, by the Canada Act 1982

[Zeitgeist]

You’re absolutely wrong.  If you accept a job for which you received an invitation to get a work permit, you can’t just ignore the conditions of the permit.  Sure, you could ignore the residential restrictions and you won’t get citizenship because the last stage of granting citizenship will be confirming proof of address for residence and employment.  Applicants for refugee status face restrictions.  It’s common in both Canada and the US.  Basically I’m touting stewardship of the land.  Cramming 50 million people into 500 square kilometres and leaving 9999500 square km sparsely populated is stupid planning.  

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re absolutely wrong.  If you accept a job for which you received an invitation to get a work permit, you can’t just ignore the conditions of the permit.  Sure, you could ignore the residential restrictions and you won’t get citizenship because the last stage of granting citizenship will be confirming proof of address for residence and employment.  Applicants for refugee status face restrictions.  It’s common in both Canada and the US.  Basically I’m touting stewardship of the land.  Cramming 50 million people into 500 square kilometres and leaving 9999500 square km sparsely populated is stupid planning.  

Nope.  Temporary work visas are time contingent, for the duration of the visa you are protected by Section 6.

When the visa expires you must reapply, if application is rejected you are subject to removal or can leave of your own volition.

Landed immigrants are protected by Chapter 6 as residents.

Refugees are not permitted to work, so they live by the grace of welfare alone.

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re absolutely wrong.  If you accept a job for which you received an invitation to get a work permit, you can’t just ignore the conditions of the permit.  Sure, you could ignore the residential restrictions and you won’t get citizenship because the last stage of granting citizenship will be confirming proof of address for residence and employment.  Applicants for refugee status face restrictions.  It’s common in both Canada and the US.  Basically I’m touting stewardship of the land.  Cramming 50 million people into 500 square kilometres and leaving 9999500 square km sparsely populated is stupid planning.  

Why is your solution to everything unconstitutional central planning?

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

Nope.  Temporary work visas are time contingent, for the duration of the visa you are protected by Section 6.

When the visa expires you must reapply, if application is rejected you are subject to removal or can leave of your own volition.

Landed immigrants are protected by Chapter 6 as residents.

Refugees are not permitted to work, so they live by the grace of welfare alone.

You’re wrong.  Refugees are absolutely allowed to work and are encouraged to do so.  Refugee applicants are another story.  

[Dougie93]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

You’re wrong.  Refugees are absolutely allowed to work and are encouraged to do so.  Refugee applicants are another story.  

Refugees are not permitted to work.   In order for a refugee to work, they must be granted residency.   When employers hire them, they become entitled to work only as residents.

Residents are protected the same as citizens under Section 6 of the Charter

Section 6;

(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right:

a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and

b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.

[Zeitgeist]

Ha ha you’re just wrong.  Once you achieve refugee status it’s easy to work.  In fact, even applicants for refugee status who are not yet approved (claimants) can obtain work permits:

As a refugee claimant, you need a work permit and a Social Insurance Number (SIN) to work in Canada.

First apply for a work permit from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC). If you are approved for a work permit, you can apply for a Social Insurance Number (SIN).

As a refugee claimant, you do not need to pay a fee to apply for a work permit or a SIN. 

Apply for a Work Permit

Not all refugee claimants who apply for a work permit get one. You must prove that you need to work to support yourself or you would have to get social assistance (welfare).

 

[Dougie93]

This is why refugees are flooding to Canada.

They know that as soon as they make an asylum claim, they become permanent residents for all intents and purposes.

All they have to do is agree to be cheap labour, and presto they are protected as residents under the Charter.

Can't be working in Canada and not protected by the Charter, doesn't work like that,

[Zeitgeist]

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Refugees are not permitted to work.   In order for a refugee to work, they must be granted residency.   When employers hire them, they become entitled to work only as residents.

Residents are protected the same as citizens under Section 6 of the Charter

Section 6;

(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right:

a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and

b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.

So you see how conditions are set around work and residency all the time in Canada for non-citizens.  That’s the critical piece.   

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Ha ha you’re just wrong.  Once you achieve refugee status it’s easy to work.  In fact, even applicants for refugee status who are not yet approved (claimants) can obtain work permits:

As a refugee claimant, you need a work permit and a Social Insurance Number (SIN) to work in Canada.

First apply for a work permit from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC). If you are approved for a work permit, you can apply for a Social Insurance Number (SIN).

As a refugee claimant, you do not need to pay a fee to apply for a work permit or a SIN. 

Apply for a Work Permit

Not all refugee claimants who apply for a work permit get one. You must prove that you need to work to support yourself or you would have to get social assistance (welfare).

 

As soon as you receive your permit and SIN, you have the status of a permanent resident.

That status protects you under Section 6 of the charter, once you grant a refugee the right to work, you can't tell him where to work and who to work for,

[Dougie93]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

So you see how conditions are set around work and residency all the time in Canada for non-citizens.  That’s the critical piece.   

Soon as you grant anyone the right to work and issue them a SIN number, they are permanent residents therein.

[Dougie93]

Zeitgeist is the classic pseudo intellectual.

Presents himself as some sort of academic.

Hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.

Eskimo Communists can't even keep their own shit straight.

[Zeitgeist]

Okay since you insist on following your half-baked assumptions off a cliff:

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjfhYHDw8LkAhVKvZ4KHdV1AqsQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theglobeandmail.com%2Fopinion%2Fcan-immigrants-be-told-where-they-must-live-in-canada%2Farticle31519796%2F&psig=AOvVaw3WUSiY_cSBgDVkpNPQNTK6&ust=1568076826397645