Are humans really responsible for climate change?

[taxme]

22 hours ago, montgomery said:

Amazing that you would be so uninformed that you would even thing that the arctic would be two degrees warmer because the earth is two degrees warmer! If you have no experts to take your denialist side then enlighten us more with your own personal science!  Your 'shit shows' you're screeching on about surely must be good evidence of you being right! Let alone even caring! 

Can you produce a paid by big oil shill to give us something a little more substantial?

One thing we can believe reliably is that you must be a Conservative!

Maybe you are the uninformed one here, fella. Well, it is the global warming scientists that are saying that the earth has warmed up by two degrees, not me. Hey, the sun comes up every day and that is no bull chit. That is a fact. Global warming skeptics have no facts. You care about something you have no proof of happening. I don't care because I do not fall into that global scare warming program and agenda that people like you go crazy over and foolishly believe in. Your problem, not mine. 

No. But if you believe that buying people off does not exist in the business world than you are not as smart as you like to believe you are. Hello!

You got that right. I am a real patriotic nationalist conservative and not one of those pinko politically correct ones that are liberals and hide in conservative clothing. I believe that wimpy politically correct Scheer is a liberal at heart. Prove me wrong at that one? 

[taxme]

4 hours ago, Argus said:

I don't care what HE was thinking. I told you what I was thinking.

Waldo was on my ignore list while he was here. And if you expect me to reply to Taxme, forget it. He's there too. I also tend to largely ignore people's discussions with such characters.

Ask Taxme if he gives a chit that he is on your silly ass ignore list?  

[WestCanMan]

Man-made climate change is real! Those bastards killed Frosty the Snowman! But if we collect enough carbon tax we can re-freeze him and bring him back to life!!! ALL HAIL SUPREME LEADER GORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm a leftie now. I just came over to the other side. If those right-wing fascists don't smarten up I'll call them all racists. Ha!

[taxme]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The US is a very volatile and polarized society that has paid a huge price for the 2nd Amendment. I’m grateful we don’t have that in Canada and I think we need to go further in gun control before fear takes over and people start wanting arms because “all the bad guys have them and won’t give them up”.  We have a more peaceful and harmonious society. Free speech is fine in Canada.  The Ontario government just passed legislation to protect open dialogue and free expression in universities. The Toronto academies are still great open fora with a proud history from Jordan Peterson to Marshall McLuhan. The fall debate between David Frum and Steve Bannon, which went ahead protests aside, is another reminder that people don’t want to silence the left or the right.  

Ya, at least in Canada Canadians do not shoot each other like Americans do all the time and have never done so. Lol.  

This is what the leftist liberals and the leftist liberal media party(Global/CTV/CBC)have been trying to do for several decades now was to try and destroy freedom of speech. The bigoted intolerant leftist liberals in Canada are always trying to come up ways new plans to try and shut down freedom of speech. 

David Frum is one of those zionists who should be ignored completely. Jordan Peterson believes in free speech. Frum does not. 

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  Ok, right I wanted to know what you were thinking, which is why I asked him.

Okay, next time send him a PM and keep your personal discussions out of the group.

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Let me see if I can respond... Am I posting in your club ?  Nope.  Never mind then.

Non sequitur.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Recall this is the same place you can't wait for Ottawa to force a pipeline towards - there's your real source of billowing shit right there. 

Just because China is making too much pollution doesn't mean that they should get their oil from Sauid Arabia instead of Canada. I'm pretty sure that you know that.

[montgomery]

2 hours ago, taxme said:

Maybe you are the uninformed one here, fella. Well, it is the global warming scientists that are saying that the earth has warmed up by two degrees, not me. Hey, the sun comes up every day and that is no bull chit. That is a fact. Global warming skeptics have no facts. You care about something you have no proof of happening. I don't care because I do not fall into that global scare warming program and agenda that people like you go crazy over and foolishly believe in. Your problem, not mine. 

No. But if you believe that buying people off does not exist in the business world than you are not as smart as you like to believe you are. Hello!

You got that right. I am a real patriotic nationalist conservative and not one of those pinko politically correct ones that are liberals and hide in conservative clothing. I believe that wimpy politically correct Scheer is a liberal at heart. Prove me wrong at that one? 

Conservatives don't believe in science and so they don't believe in manmade climate change either. They're mostly Xtians who are still stuck in the 16th. centrury, hedging their bets that the earth really isn't anymore than 10K years old. But their their lowlife expert naysayers are at best, just Conservative politicians who represent big business and say to hell with the future of mankind on this earth.

Profit is always going to much more important to Cons than people!. 

How sick!

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Yes, its been this way for thousands of years on Earth. It's a result of power, not money.

It was like this before Mao too.  Real-world power usually looks the same everywhere no matter who has it. It probably works the same on the other side of the universe.

Recall this is the same place you can't wait for Ottawa to force a pipeline towards - there's your real source of billowing shit right there.  In any case you made a much stronger statement about the cause of climate change not just a source of emissions. You actually stated climate change itself was started by the left.  That's a pretty retarded thing to say and like I've been saying for some time it was only a matter of time before right-wingers started saying it.  Thanks for proving me right.

Not a problem, if that helps make your day better, my little friend!

Quote

Good, we finally agree on something.

Something that is entirely due to the dynamics of power not ideology.  That said, I never met a right-winger who wasn't a butt-sniff to authority especially when its in the hands of a conservative. 

I've got even less use for empty virtue signalling than you. Are you suggesting however that you'd feel better if Trudeau cancelled the deal with Saudi Arabia and if the signal wasn't empty but was actually filled with real action?

My bet is that you'd suddenly get all pissy and noble about legal contracts along with becoming all flakey and weepy for poor General Dynamics and the hard-done by workers of London Ont.

I think I would view it as a foolish, naive, attempt to break free of the hypocrisy that is inherent in the system, although perhaps admirable in a stupid way. It would fail because other countries would not step up and do likewise. As we saw when Canada in the recent diplomatic spat with Saudis over the tweets. Sorry but you would lose that bet, my little friend!

Quote

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

And shovels too.

I know. Right here fella...     

Love you

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

I have no problem with using nuclear power per se, but not while government and industry are left to regulate it and themselves. Not without the sort of oversight governments usually reserve for us in other words.  Butt-sniffs unfortunately won't have anything to do with this sort of arrangement.

It is what it is now. Politics has interfered and exacerbates the carbon problem. That movement is primarily led by leftist groups. So, it's back to fossil fuels and more greenhouse gas for a good while! But hey!

I don't see a problem with the regulatory scheme. All allied countries comply with the rules and limits set out by the IAEA. Intelligent humans trying to stop climate change.

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

You need to realize there is something far more important than ideology dividing a genuine progressive like myself from a run of the mill right-winger like you.  An asshole like Mao has a lot more in common with an asshole like Pinochet and where I'd shoot both of them you'd only shoot Mao.

I have no reason to believe all three of you wouldn't have me shot if you had the chance and for the very same reason.

Naa, waste of a bullet.

[Michael Hardner]

13 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

1. This has been asked before, but are you not prepared to accept the possibility (and reality) that even when well informed ("educated") about climate change, many people will still choose actions and behaviours that may or may not reduce GHG emissions ?

2. Find a different word to describe them in this culture war, because it is not "denier"....that is a lie too.

1. Of course.  This is part of living in a collective.  You may not have noticed but I haven't been proscribing responses to the reality of the current situation.  There is somewhat of a moral obligation to help people impacted, but we're not at the point where people have been impacted so you won't find me making a lot of noise in the area of 'what to do' ?

2. Those who deny, deny.

 

[Michael Hardner]

13 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Are you guys both like, blind? I said basically the same thing you did. Maybe you missed that.

Lack of reliable high power alternatives, but I said it in the context of energy security. While part of that includes economics (everything practically does, like you said) it also concerns other things in its consideration. Waiting for your reply on that @Michael Hardner

Sorry, I missed that.  I believe nuclear continues to be a viable response to CO2 concerns.  And we need more research too.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Of course.  This is part of living in a collective.  You may not have noticed but I haven't been proscribing responses to the reality of the current situation.  There is somewhat of a moral obligation to help people impacted, but we're not at the point where people have been impacted so you won't find me making a lot of noise in the area of 'what to do' ?

 

Accordingly, people are free to acknowledge and understand the impact of climate change while simultaneously rejecting measures intended to reduce GHG emissions.   It has nothing to do with morality...people are already being impacted in negative and positive ways.   

 

Quote

2. Those who deny, deny.

 

But those who don't deny....resist.

[Michael Hardner]

58 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

But those who don't deny....resist.

If they're not denying, then I don't see what the resistance is.  They are accepting the situation.

[Centerpiece]

There are three sides to almost every story. On one side, we have the alarmists who say that if we don't reverse the GHG trend and start moving the needle down by 2030, we are all doomed. Some of these alarmists actually believe that humans cause Climate Change! On the other side, we have true deniers - those that see absolutely no problem with anything that humans are doing and that we have no impact on Climate Change. Alarmists, Deniers. They are intransigent.

Then we have what I personally feel is a growing body of "middle of the road" constituents - the third side. Climate Change has always been with us. Humans are exacerbating it. They're not sure how much we're contributing. They want to take some responsible action. They're not sure how big the problem is. They're not sure what action we should take. They don't want to commit economic suicide - nor do they want to make major personal sacrifices. This third side is neither alarmist - nor deniers. They vary between "worriers" and skeptics - and they may very well represent the largest constituency of the debate.

In the upcoming election, how the issue is framed for this third group will be paramount. In light of China, Russia, India, Indonesia and others completely and undeniably obliterating any GHG reductions the West might be able to make - there should be a rational way of framing the debate that would catch the imagination of this group. 

[Centerpiece]

Probably should have added this to my previous post. Good reading for those in the third group that I mentioned:

https://business.financialpost.com/news/the-environmental-movement-has-lost-its-way?fbclid=IwAR2yZYPDTNfiSpEPhls3u5VQxX_JGPycQzXdAOMiDg55jqF_zjk5nGlcSUQ

Quote

 

'The environmental movement has lost its way'

Professor Ian Clark: If one believes in global warming, then one must accept that the oil sands contribute very, very little to warming. Shutting down those operations would do nothing to reducing CO2 emissions. Shutting down those operations would do nothing to reducing CO2 emissions. These are driven by demand, and supply from other countries will simply increase to meet it.

 

 

[taxme]

21 hours ago, montgomery said:

Conservatives don't believe in science and so they don't believe in manmade climate change either. They're mostly Xtians who are still stuck in the 16th. centrury, hedging their bets that the earth really isn't anymore than 10K years old. But their their lowlife expert naysayers are at best, just Conservative politicians who represent big business and say to hell with the future of mankind on this earth.

Profit is always going to much more important to Cons than people!. 

How sick!

Most real and true conservatives will not listen to bull chit like global warming or global cooling as liberal minded people like you do. We will listen to real science and not fake science. Prove to us that what they say is right is how we conservatives look at things. Liberals are the ones that want to send us all back to the 16th century. No one knows for sure as to how old the earth really is. No one has ever lived long enough to be able to tell us has to how old the earth really is. Everybody is just taking a guess.

How can anyone tell the difference between two billion years ago and eight billion years ago or hundreds of million years ago, and who really cares anyway? Real and true conservatives only want to deal with less taxes, less government, and believe in more freedom and less government. It is the liberals who do not want any of those three things mentioned. Give me a break with your anti-conservative bs and that conservatives do not care about mankind's future. It's the liberals that are wrecking and ruining this country and the world just as much as conservatives are doing. This high and mighty liberal attitude of yours that liberals are great and conservatives are not is a bunch of horse manure. I am a conservative and from what I can see and read from your replies tells me that it is liberals who have a lot of explaining to do as to why they are trying to change the makeup and history of Canada. and liberals like Al Gore and David Suzuki could careless about global warming. They both are in there for the money that can be made from spreading the global warming bull chit. 

It's all about the money and it will always be about the money. We all love money and we all want more and it makes no difference whether you are a conservative, liberal, socialist or a communist. Without it we are all nobody's. Liberals making money in business will always be just as important to them than people will ever be. I find that liberals are the cheapest batards around and hate to have to part with any of their money and give it to charity unless there is a tax write off in there for them. I have plenty of liberal friends who are very cheap with their money. They like to keep and use their money all on and for themselves only. 

How sick is right? How can fools be led into believing that the sky is falling in is beyond me when it comes to all of this global warming nonsense going around. Let guys like Suzuki and Gore show the way, not you and me and thee. Tell them to stop flying around the world every month and driving around in big expensive vehicles and owning several homes. that is what I call sickness. Disgusting. 

[taxme]

6 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

Probably should have added this to my previous post. Good reading for those in the third group that I mentioned:

https://business.financialpost.com/news/the-environmental-movement-has-lost-its-way?fbclid=IwAR2yZYPDTNfiSpEPhls3u5VQxX_JGPycQzXdAOMiDg55jqF_zjk5nGlcSUQ

 

Does anybody really care all that much about the environment other than the environmental alarmists and the people who make plenty of money from trying to spread the manure about global warming. The big fools here are the taxpayer's who are paying all the tax dollars to help all those global warming alarmists to have fun at our expense and make plenty of money at the same time while doing so. Since time began the earth has been ravished by so many climatic weather events like floods, tornadoes, hurricanes and from earthquakes and volcanoes and yet the earth carries on and life goes on. A little bit of global warming will not end the earth forever. It will just upset things for awhile and after that all will return back to normal for another little while. I never see the point of getting all upset and uptight over what others say when they are not even sure as to what really will happen over anything that they can dream up. 

I go to bed every night and get up the next day and I do not lose any sleep over what may happen. I am pretty sure that if things got really bad then we the people will do what needs to be done to survive. So far I see no need to panic. Things have not got that bad yet and probably never will. Chill out all you scaredy cats. Go for a drive in your gas driven vehicle. It will be good for the environment. More trees will grow. 

[montgomery]

48 minutes ago, taxme said:

Most real and true conservatives will not listen to bull chit like global warming or global cooling as liberal minded people like you do. We will listen to real science and not fake science. Prove to us that what they say is right is how we conservatives look at things. Liberals are the ones that want to send us all back to the 16th century. No one knows for sure as to how old the earth really is. No one has ever lived long enough to be able to tell us has to how old the earth really is. Everybody is just taking a guess.

How can anyone tell the difference between two billion years ago and eight billion years ago or hundreds of million years ago, and who really cares anyway? Real and true conservatives only want to deal with less taxes, less government, and believe in more freedom and less government. It is the liberals who do not want any of those three things mentioned. Give me a break with your anti-conservative bs and that conservatives do not care about mankind's future. It's the liberals that are wrecking and ruining this country and the world just as much as conservatives are doing. This high and mighty liberal attitude of yours that liberals are great and conservatives are not is a bunch of horse manure. I am a conservative and from what I can see and read from your replies tells me that it is liberals who have a lot of explaining to do as to why they are trying to change the makeup and history of Canada. and liberals like Al Gore and David Suzuki could careless about global warming. They both are in there for the money that can be made from spreading the global warming bull chit. 

It's all about the money and it will always be about the money. We all love money and we all want more and it makes no difference whether you are a conservative, liberal, socialist or a communist. Without it we are all nobody's. Liberals making money in business will always be just as important to them than people will ever be. I find that liberals are the cheapest batards around and hate to have to part with any of their money and give it to charity unless there is a tax write off in there for them. I have plenty of liberal friends who are very cheap with their money. They like to keep and use their money all on and for themselves only. 

How sick is right? How can fools be led into believing that the sky is falling in is beyond me when it comes to all of this global warming nonsense going around. Let guys like Suzuki and Gore show the way, not you and me and thee. Tell them to stop flying around the world every month and driving around in big expensive vehicles and owning several homes. that is what I call sickness. Disgusting. 

We'll take that nonsense one issue at a time and 'we' won't move on to the next until I see some progress. The earth is 4.543 billion years old. What on earth could you Conservatives be thinking?

And why would any rational person even want to discuss the science of manmade climate change with a person who can't understand that to start with? 

Edited January 8, 2019 by montgomery

[montgomery]

4 hours ago, taxme said:

Most real and true conservatives will not listen to bull chit like global warming or global cooling as liberal minded people like you do. We will listen to real science and not fake science. Prove to us that what they say is right is how we conservatives look at things. Liberals are the ones that want to send us all back to the 16th century. No one knows for sure as to how old the earth really is. No one has ever lived long enough to be able to tell us has to how old the earth really is. Everybody is just taking a guess.

How can anyone tell the difference between two billion years ago and eight billion years ago or hundreds of million years ago, and who really cares anyway? Real and true conservatives only want to deal with less taxes, less government, and believe in more freedom and less government. It is the liberals who do not want any of those three things mentioned. Give me a break with your anti-conservative bs and that conservatives do not care about mankind's future. It's the liberals that are wrecking and ruining this country and the world just as much as conservatives are doing. This high and mighty liberal attitude of yours that liberals are great and conservatives are not is a bunch of horse manure. I am a conservative and from what I can see and read from your replies tells me that it is liberals who have a lot of explaining to do as to why they are trying to change the makeup and history of Canada. and liberals like Al Gore and David Suzuki could careless about global warming. They both are in there for the money that can be made from spreading the global warming bull chit. 

It's all about the money and it will always be about the money. We all love money and we all want more and it makes no difference whether you are a conservative, liberal, socialist or a communist. Without it we are all nobody's. Liberals making money in business will always be just as important to them than people will ever be. I find that liberals are the cheapest batards around and hate to have to part with any of their money and give it to charity unless there is a tax write off in there for them. I have plenty of liberal friends who are very cheap with their money. They like to keep and use their money all on and for themselves only. 

How sick is right? How can fools be led into believing that the sky is falling in is beyond me when it comes to all of this global warming nonsense going around. Let guys like Suzuki and Gore show the way, not you and me and thee. Tell them to stop flying around the world every month and driving around in big expensive vehicles and owning several homes. that is what I call sickness. Disgusting. 

Baloney taxme. I'm not really interested in the opinion of a very small minority of naysayers that are more interested in profit than reacting to manmade climate change that that has the potential to destroy human life on this planet. TAKE IT UP WITH THE EXPERTS. Or at the very least, produce your own 'paid for by big oil'  to state the denialist case. 

You're not a self-proclaimed expert yet are you taxme?

[bush_cheney2004]

4 hours ago, montgomery said:

Baloney taxme. I'm not really interested in the opinion of a very small minority of naysayers that are more interested in profit than reacting to manmade climate change that that has the potential to destroy human life on this planet. 

 

More alarmist hyperbole that only serves to undermine their credibility.   Humans have endured and thrived despite far greater variation in climate (e.g. Ice ages), taking advantage of warming to populate even more temperate regions of the planet.   Adaptation is a feature, not a bug.

[Dougie93]

I must be a misanthrope, because I honestly don't give a rats ass about future generations nor the survival of the species.  Global Climate scam is not about saving people in the future its about raising taxes and imposing draconian regulations  on us in the now, and if that's how it is, the future generations should blame the lefties, because the lefties conveniently asserting that what we need to do is exactly their desired agenda to the exclusion of all else, is why nothing much is going to be done.   Never mind that central planning doesn't work and is doomed to fail anyways.

The new commies have about as much chance of achieving their utopian World Climate Revolution as the old commies did with their World Socialist Revolution, which is none, all the lefties will do trying to go by that means is incite a massive fascistic backlash resulting in them getting liquidated by the millions, just to shut them up, virtue signalling themselves right into the gas chambers.

Not to mention they don't understand human psychology, constant hysterical pronouncements  of alarmist over the top doom does not make humans take action, quite the opposite, it just overwhelms and humans will ignore it as a result just to get on with their lives, the lives of people centuries from now be damned.

Furthermore, based on the assertions of the "Climate Scientists!", it's already too late anyways in any practical political sense, zero chance we are achieving their demanded reductions within the window they require.  

To try to force de-industrialize at that pace would just incite wars,  and then your climate doom would simply be accelerated by thermonuclear bombs.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Dougie93

[montgomery]

8 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I must be a misanthrope, because I honestly don't give a rats ass about future generations nor the survival of the species. 

You're not alone on that Dougie. I think that most Conservatives feel the same way. Profit is much more important to them than survival of our species.  Thanks for the truthfulness finally!

[Dougie93]

Loud and proud.  I think misanthropy is an essential component to being an elite infantryman, you can only compartmentalize so much, if you're an overflowing cup of human empathy, that is not conducive to state sanctioned mass murder on behalf of the Crown.

[taxme]

19 hours ago, montgomery said:

We'll take that nonsense one issue at a time and 'we' won't move on to the next until I see some progress. The earth is 4.543 billion years old. What on earth could you Conservatives be thinking?

And why would any rational person even want to discuss the science of manmade climate change with a person who can't understand that to start with? 

How is anyone able to come up with a figure like 4.543 billion years anyway is beyond me? Why not 3.846 or 2.861 billion years? Is it all just a guess? Yup, sure looks like it to me. C'mon, get real. What on earth are liberals smoking these days that is wrecking their thinking, common sense and logic if they ever had any of those mentioned at all. I find that the average liberal is clueless about everything. Poor brainwashed fools. Lol. 

And why shouldn't anyone be able to question the science of this so called man made climate change that is being brought to us by the likes of Suzuki and Gore? I see that you have not challenged me on my attacks on Suzuki and Gore? Any reason why? Are we all just supposed to be good little zombie liberals and believe what others say willy nilly without question? Not this with this conservative. This conservative asks questions, and challenges in most cases, made up theories. If you want to believe that the world will come to an end if people do not get rid of their vehicles or stop flying in planes well go ahead make your day. But not everyone has to live in fear and panic like you are living in these days. Some of us do think before we speak.  

The real question here is how the hell would you know as to what is really going on with our climate anyway? Have you done your own research on the matter? Is it because you believe some scientists or some environmentalists that are telling you this? I certainly do not see any changes happening around me. Where are the changes that you see happening today that have made you believe that the climate is in big time trouble? Show me a few somethings. 

The one thing that liberals seem to forget that the earth is not stable and that the earth makes changes to the environment every day from hurricanes and tornadoes to earthquakes and volcanoes and this has been going on for who knows how long. Yet we are all still here. It is a lovely cloudy day in Vancouver as it has always been for probably thousands of years. And it has been like that since I moved to Vancouver over thirty five years ago. No changes noted to the climate going on here that I have seen so far. All appears normal here in Vancouver. 

[PIK]

On 1/6/2019 at 7:59 PM, montgomery said:

Conservatives don't believe in science and so they don't believe in manmade climate change either. They're mostly Xtians who are still stuck in the 16th. centrury, hedging their bets that the earth really isn't anymore than 10K years old. But their their lowlife expert naysayers are at best, just Conservative politicians who represent big business and say to hell with the future of mankind on this earth.

Profit is always going to much more important to Cons than people!. 

How sick!

Then explain all the other CC that has been going on forever ,even well before man did anything. Check out between 1910 and 1945. Then 45 to 70. Then get back to us.