Faisal Hussain - the evolving story

[DogOnPorch]

27 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Yup, calling it a wmd... no the word aproved was short for appropriate but darned tablet keeps changing it.

 

Much like with VX, just having the stuff in that quantity in close proximity is enough to cause SOME effect. One microgram is all that is needed to start showing measurable effects. That's probably floating around the room and then some...

[Michael Hardner]

10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Really ?    First Nations victims might disagree with your assessment.

Statistically, Jews are consistently at the top of the lists gathered by Canadian police.

[Michael Hardner]

10 hours ago, bcsapper said:

1. I always thought holocaust denial was farcical, and opened up the denier to ridicule. 

2. People can deny it 'till the cows come home if they want.

1. You would think so, but there are a lot of gullible people out there.  And recently we have discovered that there are far more than we thought.  We haven't been educating people and engendering trust, which is IMO why we have Sandy Hook and similar conspiracies about.

2. Sure but they can't promote hate.

[Michael Hardner]

10 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

I'm glad to see you post that. I'm sure you can see why so many people feel any legislation that singles out "Islamaphobia" is mis-guided. 

Not exactly.  Anti-Muslim hate crimes are rising, and The Rebel and The Sun are squarely responsible for adding to an environment of intolerance.  It needs to be addressed, as getting the genie back into the bottle after civil unrest happens is very difficult.  Also I think that we had a 'resolution' not 'legislation'.  That was another scare-mongering tactic, that it would be illegal to criticize any aspect of a religion.  Well, looks like that hasn't happened.

[GostHacked]

9 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

Jews don't have a book saying to kill the unbeliever and strike terror into their hearts.

They don't need a book, they just do it anyways.

[bush_cheney2004]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Statistically, Jews are consistently at the top of the lists gathered by Canadian police.

 

That could be one interpretation of the reported data, but it is not the only conclusion:

http://hatecrime.osce.org/canada

[Centerpiece]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Not exactly.  Anti-Muslim hate crimes are rising, and The Rebel and The Sun are squarely responsible for adding to an environment of intolerance.  It needs to be addressed, as getting the genie back into the bottle after civil unrest happens is very difficult.  Also I think that we had a 'resolution' not 'legislation'.  That was another scare-mongering tactic, that it would be illegal to criticize any aspect of a religion.  Well, looks like that hasn't happened.

Where's your proof that anti-Muslim hate crimes are rising? If they weren't, would you alter your opinion? Try this source for starters - I've also included a link to the supporting news story.........

Quote

Police reported 1,409 hate crimes in Canada in 2016, 47 more than in 2015. This represented less than 0.1% of the 1,895,546 crimes (excluding traffic violations) that were reported by police services. The 3% increase in hate crimes was a result of more incidents targeting South Asians and Arabs or West Asians, the Jewish population, and people based on their sexual orientation. In contrast, hate crimes against Muslims and Catholics declined in 2016.

Link: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/171128/dq171128d-eng.htm

Link to Story: https://globalnews.ca/news/3884829/hate-crimes-against-muslims-down/

[dialamah]

The article seems contradictory if hate crimes against Arabs are rising, but falling against Muslims, when a lot of Arabs are Muslim.  Given that quite often a xenophobe can't tell the difference between South Asians and Muslims, and they aren't in the habit of asking for clarification before exercising their xenophobia, do the stats consider who the attacker thought they were attacking, or who the victim was?  

Anyway, from your link:

Quote

Following a notable increase in hate crimes against the Muslim population in 2015, police reported 20 fewer in 2016 for a total of 139

Do you agree with Argus that the number and type of hate crimes against either Jews or Muslims is so small and insignificant as to be irrelevant? 

https://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25285-islamophobia-in-canada/?do=findComment&comment=1270500

I  think all assaults - whether  "knocking off a yarmulke or tugging off an hijab"- should be denounced in the strongest possible terms.   Both the Ottawa Accord and Motion M103 made the same point, even while mentioning a specific category of hate.

Edited August 2, 2018 by dialamah

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, Centerpiece said:

Where's your proof that anti-Muslim hate crimes are rising? If they weren't, would you alter your opinion? Try this source for starters - I've also included a link to the supporting news story.........

Link: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/171128/dq171128d-eng.htm

Link to Story: https://globalnews.ca/news/3884829/hate-crimes-against-muslims-down/

I wish we would start keeping stats for hate crimes BY Muslims against Westerners.  I'm absolutely positive that is rising in Canada.  Earlier this week, a lady I work with was followed through a London Drugs by a Muslim man and his burka'ed wife - he was angry, shouting at her in whatever language, apparently didn't like the length of the skirt she was wearing.  Twice she told him to Stop and leave her alone.  She finally just left the store, no one did anything to help her.  But of course, unless it's a white person shouting at a Muslim, it's not going to make the news.  A white guy yelling at a Muslim?  That makes the news as a hate crime.  A Muslim yelling at a Western woman?  Who cares.

At least we're keeping track of what's happening with our Jewish population.  Anti-semitism IS rising in Canada:

https://torontosun.com/news/national/anti-semitism-on-the-rise-in-canada-statistics-canada

Quote

Hate crimes against Canada’s Jewish population rose a whopping 24% from 2015 to 2016, according to Statistics Canada.

While some of that stat may include white supremicists, I doubt it's completely white supremicists increasing the Jew-hating in Canada.

I'm not sure why so many think that followers of one of the most intolerant, misogynistic religions are not also perpetrators of hate crimes.  It's like there are 2 sets of standards - oh yes, we'll say "Musllims committing hate crimes is also bad" but in reality - we're not allowed to acknowledge that it happens because it doesn't fit the current  narrative of Muslims always being the victims, not the perpetrators.

[Centerpiece]

5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

The article seems contradictory if hate crimes against Arabs are rising, but falling against Muslims, when a lot of Arabs are Muslim.  Given that quite often a xenophobe can't tell the difference between South Asians and Muslims, and they aren't in the habit of asking for clarification before exercising their xenophobia, do the stats consider who the attacker thought they were attacking, or who the victim was? 

All I can do is show you the statistics - which used the same criteria as before - so your personal interpretation doesn't count for much. When the criteria is the same - going up or down is the main point. Michael Hardner said they were going up and it needs to addressed.

Do you agree with Argus that the number and type of hate crimes against either Jews or Muslims is so small and insignificant as to be irrelevant? 

 I agree with Argus. That said - it's not  "irrelevant" - but not in need of an Islamaphobia motion that singles out one religion. That's identity politics at it's worst.

https://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25285-islamophobia-in-canada/?do=findComment&comment=1270500

I  think all assaults - whether  "knocking off a yarmulke or tugging off an hijab"- should be denounced in the strongest possible terms.   Both the Ottawa Accord and Motion M103 made the same point, even while mentioning a specific type of hate.

My point was expressed clearly - the one that referred to lunkheads and puddin-heads. Canadians by and large - the vast majority - are smart enough to understand that there is a tiny segment of Islamic knuckleheads who have distorted their faith to the point that they should not even be called Muslims. Too bad the media and our politicians don't create the platform for Muslim Canadians to stand together with all Canadians and reject this scourge with everything we have. Calling us all "racists" for expressing frustration is again - just a ploy to sew political divisions. Disgusting. 

 

 

[dialamah]

@Goddess Funny how last year, when I provided stats showing that hate crimes against Muslims rose by 61% in Canada your concern was non-existent.  Instead, you were part of the cadre attacking me for my concern over this.  

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/171128/dq171128d-eng.htm

Police-reported crimes motivated by hate against the Muslim population rose 61% in 2015.

Link to your lack of concern.

[Goddess]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

@Goddess Funny how last year, when I provided stats showing that hate crimes against Muslims rose by 61% in Canada your concern was non-existent.  Instead, you were part of the cadre attacking me for my concern over this.  

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/171128/dq171128d-eng.htm

 

 

Link to your lack of concern.

I'm not reading 306 pages.  Why don't you just put your usual Sarah Huckabee-Sanders spin on whatever stats or comment is in there that bothers you.

[cannuck]

Let's get one thing perfectly straight:  NO "sane" person intentionally kills another human being (with the exception of assisted suicide).  The problem is trying to predict WHICH mentally ill person will do what things outside of our frame of ethical and moral standards.

What is troubling is when any particular group, religion, organization, movement, government, etc. champions the cause of murder for their purposes.  THIS is why people from the "right" point out the very open proclamations of fundamentalist Islam to kill infidels.  I can not say whether exposure of the Danforth killer to radical Islam (which it seems he DID have) was "the" trigger that allowed his mental illness to express itself by murdering innocent strangers, but it is equally wrong to dismiss that as one possible contributing factor.  One could follow this line of reasoning to understand how the greater the exposure to immoral behaviour, the more the bar of what is acceptable can be lowered.   Honour killings in many cultures, and of course the Holocaust are perfectly good examples of WHY it is appropriate to call into question anyone or anything that promotes and gives credence to murder.   The more it is expressed, the more it becomes a credible alternative to achieve some stated goal.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

1. Where's your proof that anti-Muslim hate crimes are rising?

2. If they weren't, would you alter your opinion?

3. Try this source for starters - 

1. Official Hate crime stats. 

2. Yes.

3. Will check when I am not on my phone

[eyeball]

12 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

Much like with VX, just having the stuff in that quantity in close proximity is enough to cause SOME effect. One microgram is all that is needed to start showing measurable effects.

Before you were saying that was enough to kill you.

Quote

That's probably floating around the room and then some...

Just another fart in a windstorm of hyperbole.

[dialamah]

@centerpiece - The quote function isn't working for me.

True, my personal interpretation means nothing.  If hate crimes against Muslims spiked in 2015 by 61% and dropped by 20% in 2015, its still higher by 40% than it was in 2014.  Perhaps it will drop again in 2017; lets hope.  

I do agree, to a point, that most of these crimes aren't serious, other than the 6 dead Muslims.  But that doesn't mean we shouldn't firmly and loudly condemn them. "I am not too concerned about an hijab being tugged or a yarmulke being knocked off" is pretty weak condemnation.  Especially coming for a guy who regularly laments that Muslim women wear hijabs in Canada.

If the vast majority of people are aware that terrorists are a small subset of Muslims, why the eagerness to accept speculation, from a questionnable source, that a large amount of drugs found in a (presumed Muslim) drug dealer's possession must be terror related, and that no mention of such a plot by any authorities doesn't mean there is no plot, but that authorities are lying to us?   This eagerness to acceot Muslum=terrorist speculation doesn't suggest to me that people "know" that only a very few Muslims are terrorists.

Muslims regularly denounce violence. A couple of years ago, I posted links to a letter signed by literally 100s of Muslim leaders denouncing terrorism and the anti-Islam crowd here simply rejected it.  There are Muslim individuals and groups all over the world, posting blogs, articles, you-tube videos, appearing on TV and on other news media denouncing terrorism, denouncing violence; there have even been fatwas against it.  Nonetheless, several people here and elsewhere actively reject those examples as "not enough" and many others simply remain in ignorance, only hearing the anti-Islam propaganda that Muslims don't object to this violence, and repeat it as you have done here. 

Consider that we all know that most Canadians reject the violence of Bissonette; the idea that we should all appear on the streets or on the news to "prove it" is laughable.  Yet, that seems to be the expectation for Muslims.  Even though the vast majority of them live peaceful lives, even though we "know" terrorists are only a small subset of them, there is still some weird expectation among too many people that when a terror attack happens, each and every Muslim in the world must somehow affirm, to our satisfaction, that they condemn the attack.  Imagine if the Muslims in Canada had said, after the Mosque shooting "Why don't more Canadians condemn this slaughter?"  Would you find that reasonable?  If not, then why would you find it reasonable when we ask that question of Muslims when every terror attack is followed by condemnation by Muslim groups and/or Muslim leaders?

Edited August 2, 2018 by dialamah

[DogOnPorch]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Before you were saying that was enough to kill you.

Just another fart in a windstorm of hyperbole.

 

You're free to experiment with heroin and other opiates. I'm not going to stop you.

[DogOnPorch]

28 minutes ago, dialamah said:

 

Muslims regularly denounce violence. A couple of years ago, I posted links to a letter signed by literally 100s of Muslim leaders denouncing terrorism and the anti-Islam crowd here simply rejected it.  

 

The Quran says to lie to the Infidel in order to further Islam.

[Michael Hardner]

45 minutes ago, dialamah said:

 If hate crimes against Muslims spiked in 2015 by 61% and dropped by 20% in 2015, its still higher by 40% than it was in 2014.  Perhaps it will drop 

I concur with Dialamah on no this topic.

[DogOnPorch]

Perhaps if members of club Islam stop shooting folks and running them over with trucks...and such.

[eyeball]

They only do that because club Islam has been run into with so many dictators and such.  What goes around comes around.

[OftenWrong]

40 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Perhaps if members of club Islam stop shooting folks and running them over with trucks...and such.

Yes that does present a bit of a problem.

[Centerpiece]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

@centerpiece - The quote function isn't working for me.

True, my personal interpretation means nothing.  If hate crimes against Muslims spiked in 2015 by 61% and dropped by 20% in 2015, its still higher by 40% than it was in 2014.  Perhaps it will drop again in 2017; lets hope.  

 

In 2015, hate crimes against Catholics rose by a similar percentage - from 35 to 55. Crimes against Jews actually dropped from 213 to 178. In 2016 - crimes against Muslims went down - and crimes against Jews went up. One thing is clear - with a population of only 400,000 Jews as opposed to one million Muslims - hate crimes against Jews are still much more prevalent than those against Muslims. I would also speculate that Jews are even less likely to report a hate crime because they have become so used to it - sadly. Yet the media and politicians zero in on Muslim "hate crimes" - as so shamefully demonstrated with the Hijab hoax fiasco that had politicians tripping over each other with apologies and outrage.

[OftenWrong]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

They only do that because club Islam has been run into with so many dictators and such.  What goes around comes around.

Such as the Caliphate they so dearly want to instill? These people are ideologically opposed to a democracy, inherently by belief.

[eyeball]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

Such as the Caliphate they so dearly want to instill? These people are ideologically opposed to a democracy, inherently by belief.

A handful perhaps, one that has a sporadic populist gravitas due to the fucked over state that most Islamic people exist in.