Faisal Hussain - the evolving story

[GostHacked]

Just now, dialamah said:

Yup.  It will be a conspiracy to hide the truth about Islam and a terror attack unless an official says "It was a terrorist attack".    Wouldn't matter if decades worth of medical history was provided detailing Hussain's delusions, these people would just claim they were forged or something.  

Anything else is simply equated to trolling in my view. But that's what is expected of certain members on this forum.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

Yup.  It will be a conspiracy to hide the truth about Islam and a terror attack unless an official says "It was a terrorist attack".    Wouldn't matter if decades worth of medical history was provided detailing Hussain's delusions, these people would just claim they were forged or something.  

 

Your preferred cult member shot Canadians on the street including a 10 year old girl. Islamic terror attacks are a global issue.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, GostHacked said:

Anything else is simply equated to trolling in my view. But that's what is expected of certain members on this forum.

 

You're free to support the Muslim Brotherhood and their claims of mental illness. Don't expect others to Dhimmi-up in the same fashion.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

The reason people feared the government's intent behind that proposal is because this government has repeatedly demonstrated how craven its nature is in kowtowing and sucking up to minority groups for votes. Something which reached its nadir during the India trip. Likewise this government has demonstrated little real commitment to freedom of speech or expression. Many progressives, and this is a government run by one, do not believe there should be freedom of speech and expression if it offends members of protected groups.

This post doesn't acknowledge my point about the lies.  As such it serves to excuse them.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

So the victims of violence or even rudeness (most Canadian hate crimes amount to rudeness) are never responsible for provoking it in any way?

There are socially accepted reasons for terrible actions.  Self-defense is one but perceptions - as you seem to be saying in the rest of the post - are generally not.

The term most often used for that framing is 'blame the victim'.  

Otherwise, to apply the principle to all actions, it would excuse crimes and acts of terrorism.  

Now if we are just talking about reasons instead of excuses then that's a different thing.

[scribblet]

52 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Interesting that this thread has been hijacked by people screaming ISLAM, when right from the start it was his mental state that caused the issues. Anything ISLAM has already been debunked in this thread. 

Hang on I'll start the next person's response with ' You are free to *.*'. ....   too predictable.

 

 

Not true, it has not been debunked, we still have no confirmation of such illness, only the Muslim spin doctor.  Howver,  it really is shameless and ignorant of apologists for terror  to use the excuse of mental  illness for terrorism which seem to be their knee-jerk attributing of it tonsidering that most mentally ill people are not violent and far more likely to be victims of crime rather than perpetrators. 

[Michael Hardner]

I would acknowledge that security forces haven't fully explained what happened yet.  Last update was on Monday from police 

[turningrite]

27 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

There are socially accepted reasons for terrible actions.  Self-defense is one but perceptions - as you seem to be saying in the rest of the post - are generally not.

The term most often used for that framing is 'blame the victim'.  

Otherwise, to apply the principle to all actions, it would excuse crimes and acts of terrorism.  

Now if we are just talking about reasons instead of excuses then that's a different thing.

I think the point Argus is trying to make is that not all police reports are indicative of actual criminal behavior. They're simply reports that the police have investigated. The number of charges laid and convictions obtained are not reported in the Stats Can data referenced in this thread by you or others. According to the available 2015 data, of the roughly 1,300 hate related incidents reported to police that year, only 38 percent were categorized as violent - and therefore more likely to result in charges and convictions - and that figure drops even further, to 24 percent, where religiously motivated hate incidents were reported. One also has to consider that not all reports are even credible, even where they're reflected in the statistics. For instance, the highly publicized case of the hijab attack earlier this year that turned out to be a hoax is likely to be included in this year's reporting stats.

Edited August 3, 2018 by turningrite

[DogOnPorch]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I would acknowledge that security forces haven't fully explained what happened yet.  Last update was on Monday from police 

 

When is the last time you heard a police update about the details and motivations of the Jihadi that killed Canadians with a van?

That's right...don't hold your breath. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, turningrite said:

 I think the point Argus is trying to make is that not all police reports are indicative of actual criminal behavior. 

I don't think so.  Another poster tried to make that point.  Argus is a clear communicator.

[dialamah]

1 minute ago, scribblet said:

we still have no confirmation of such illness, 

Not true.  Even excluding the statement released by the family, we have plenty of confirmation that he suffered from mental illness.

Quote

 

The suspected gunman in the Danforth mass shooting Sunday night in Toronto was known to police for having a history of mental health concerns dating back to 2010.

A police source told Global News that 29-year-old Faisal Hussain had previously been apprehended by Toronto police twice under the mental health act.

 

 

Quote

 

Sources told CTV Toronto that Hussain was previously investigated by police amid concerns about his mental health. CP24 reports that police were contacted by school officials at Victoria Park Collegiate in 2010 over comments he made about being the Joker from the Batman movie, and about liking death and explosions.

 

 

Quote

”Eight years before Faisal Hussain opened fire in the city's vibrant Greektown neighbourhood, he disclosed to Sukhera that he was suffering from psychosis and depression, and was getting professional help.

 

Quote

Bellon told Global News on Thursday that she noticed Hussain on the very first day of class because he was very “disengaged, very quiet.” At first she couldn’t make any progress with getting through to him but continued to try to engage him while “respecting his space and his boundaries.”

 

 

Quote

 

“Ten years ago when he was in my class and I asked him what does he want to do. He said, ‘Oh, I want to kill someone,’” the teacher, whose name Global News agreed to protect, told Global News in a voicemail.

He added Hussain had a blank stare on his face as the comments were made.

The comments were reported to Toronto police and Hussain was apprehended under the Mental Health Act, the teacher said.

 

 

[turningrite]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't think so.  Another poster tried to make that point.  Argus is a clear communicator.

I think he's saying that there are generally two sides to every story and that not all incidents reported to police as hate crime actually amount to that. There's been a proliferation of recent media reports suggesting that hate incidents, and particularly uncivil conduct, have become rampant. (And some of it is minority on minority. Who'd have thunk it?) I think it more likely that cellphones with good cameras have become rampant. I had a discussion about this with a gay friend recently, who laughingly noted that if gay people went to the police every time they were publicly insulted or denigrated for their sexual orientation the police wouldn't be able to keep up. Maybe this is why the Stats Can data indicate that hate-related incidents reported by members of the LGBTQ community tend to be violent in nature in comparison to stats related to incidents reported by those in other targeted groups. As my friend notes, gay people learn to be resilient and separate incivility, which they're used to facing, from actual harm. Sticks and stones...

[DogOnPorch]

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Not true.  Even excluding the statement released by the family, we have plenty of confirmation that he suffered from mental illness.

 

Your attempts to turn this Jihadist into a victim and his victims into the perpetrators shows where your loyalties are. 

Had the shooting victims...dead and wounded...simply done MORE to help poor Faisal...this wouldn't have happened.

Does that sound about right to you? I bet it does...

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, turningrite said:

There's been a proliferation of recent media reports suggesting that hate incidents, and particularly uncivil conduct, have become rampant ...

Not true.  It hasn't become rampant, it has been rampant forever.  We need to aim for zero abuse.

You sure rely on friends a lot to give you background information.

[turningrite]

31 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Not true.  Even excluding the statement released by the family, we have plenty of confirmation that he suffered from mental illness.

 

Being arrested under the Mental Health Act is not in and of itself proof of a mental illness diagnosis. Those so detained are held in health or medical facilities for observation and assessment by qualified professionals. Police officers aren't for the most part qualified medical or mental health professionals. As for the mental illness explanation for the shooter's motives and/or behavior, this theory becomes less tenable as each day passes given that the information necessary to reach this conclusion could easily have been obtained and analyzed by this point. Mental illness may have played some role, but it's increasingly likely that if it applies at all it's a secondary factor.

[dialamah]

58 minutes ago, scribblet said:

it really is shameless and ignorant of apologists for terror  to use the excuse of mental  illness for terrorism which seem to be their knee-jerk attributing of it tonsidering that most mentally ill people are not violent and far more likely to be victims of crime rather than perpetrators. 

I think It really is shameless and ignorant of xenophobes to ignore and deny all the confirmatiom of mental  illness to push their anti-Muslim agenda which seem to be their knee-jerk reaction to Muslim criminals, considering that most Muslim people are not violent and far more likely to be victims of crime rather than perpetrators. 

[turningrite]

26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Not true.  It hasn't become rampant, it has been rampant forever.  We need to aim for zero abuse.

You sure rely on friends a lot to give you background information.

Wow, you're difficult to please. When I cite official or published sources, you often criticize those. I rely on friends for perspective. As many of us have aged together over the past few decades we've faced many of the same problems. Some of my friends are now dying off, unfortunately, with cancer and heart disease being the biggest culprits. But experience is the best teacher. We all compare notes. I try to socialize with friends at least once a week in addition to keeping touch via phone in order to maintain direct contact with the wider world.

Edited August 3, 2018 by turningrite

[taxme]

On 8/1/2018 at 5:51 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1) Italians are ok with the vilification of Italians ?  Or Mafia ?  Of course you can vilify 'terrorists' but nobody has suggested curtailing immigration from Italy.  Thanks for the example.

2) Yes they do

3) They belong to advocacy groups and associations that condemn extremism all the time.  After 9/11 people said that Muslims weren't condemning extremism but they were.

Violence against innocent Muslims is spiking, on the rise, and that is directly related to people muddying the waters around who exactly is to blame.  I would prefer that we all sit around in our tweed jackets and pipes and calmly discuss problems but the angertainment industry wants it another way: sell papers at the risk of innocent people getting beat up, and who cares ?

Are you forgetting about all the violence that Muslims are committing against innocent Canadian citizen's who were nice enough to have allowed those Muslims to immigrate to Canada and how they now go about paying us back? The spiking's of violence may be due to the fact that Muslims are the only ones going around these days in Canada and other Western countries who are doing the bombings, shootings, and driving vans and trying to mow down as many innocent Canadians as they can. It is time for you to stop being so politically correct and start to smell the Muslim terrorism that is going on and is allowed to continue. Sheeesh. 

[taxme]

17 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I think It really is shameless and ignorant of xenophobes to ignore and deny all the confirmatiom of mental  illness to push their anti-Muslim agenda which seem to be their knee-jerk reaction to Muslim criminals, considering that most Muslim people are not violent and far more likely to be victims of crime rather than perpetrators. 

So why then do the Muslim people not speak out about all of this Muslim violence that is going on in Canada against non-Muslim Canadians like how some of these Muslims seem to enjoy walking down some Canadian street and shooting and running down innocent Canadian citizen's?  They never get out there en masse and say or do anything about it. Muslims are like Jehovah's Witnesses they all stick together and refuse to challenge and question their religions and the things that are said and done in their religion. It is not Muslims who are victims here, it is the innocent Canadians that keep getting massacred by this so called religion of peace. Peace my arse. It's more like a war on the infidel all the time. Muslim victims? Really. 

[Centerpiece]

I usually don't react this way - but we have not heard one iota about Faisal Hussain for several days - including The Sun. Think about it - something as simple as verifying that he had been treated for mental illness/psychosis - but nada. News reporters usually dig this stuff up really quickly. It's as if the editors have been advised to shut everything down. In summary, it hit me that something major is likely going on - linked directly to national security. I guess we should let the authorities do their job - as long as we get an explanation at the end.

[dialamah]

37 minutes ago, turningrite said:

Being arrested under the Mental Health Act is not in and of itself proof of a mental illness diagnosis. Those so detained are held in health or medical facilities for observation and assessment by qualified professionals. Police officers aren't for the most part qualified medical or mental health professionals. As for the mental illness explanation for the shooter's motives and/or behavior, this theory becomes less tenable as each day passes given that the information necessary to reach this conclusion could easily have been obtained and analyzed by this point. Mental illness may have played some role, but it's increasingly likely that if it applies at all it's a secondary factor.

Its pretty clear that he had a history of mental issues; why do you seek to deny it?  The evidence for mental illness is more credible than the evidence for a terror plot, so far.

Having said that, I can also say that what sent him over the edge might have been violent Islamic rhetoric; I am not denying that, and nobody else is either as far as I can tell.   It might also have been time for "The Joker" to exact his revenge, or maybe the cut in hours at his job was what sent him into a murderous rampage.  He sat outside his job for hours after his last shift.  Was he trying to quiet down the violent voices he heard, or was he trying to gather the courage to carry out his perceived task for Islam?   

That final impetus is what we may never really know, and we certainly aren't going to know after only a week.  It takes longer than that to even do a forensics exam on a computer and interviews with people who knew him will take much longer, given that they're going to be a lot more extensive than what media are going to do.  By the time they get an answer that makes sense, if they ever do, you all and the media will probably have moved on.  Maybe there'll be some book or blog that will put it al together in a year or two.

The expectations expressed here for "answers right now" are unrealistic.  The "answers right now or we are being lied to" is just stupid.  

Edited August 3, 2018 by dialamah

[dialamah]

7 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

 I guess we should let the authorities do their job - as long as we get an explanation at the end.

I can agree with that, at least.  

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

Your attempts to turn this Jihadist into a victim and his victims into the perpetrators shows where your loyalties are. 

Your characterization in this light is why the West is as responsible as anyone for Islamic terrorism. You're free to deny it but it's probably even truer now than it's ever been.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I think It really is shameless and ignorant of xenophobes to ignore and deny all the confirmatiom of mental  illness to push their anti-Muslim agenda which seem to be their knee-jerk reaction to Muslim criminals, considering that most Muslim people are not violent and far more likely to be victims of crime rather than perpetrators. 

It's really just a pro-west agenda they're pushing - the same agenda they've been pushing since 9/11.  If you're not with them....

[Argus]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

It is still their ideas you and others are repeating. 

Unlike yourself I'm more than capable of original thought. Not to mention basic logic. And my judgement of people is based on their behavior, not their skin colour. If it was Buddhists behaving around the world the way Muslims are I'd be opposed to Buddhist immigration. If it was Baptists acting like that I wouldn't want Baptists coming in. It doesn't matter that not every member of that group is violent or a fanatic or has anti-social views. If a GROUP is like that, and you let substantial numbers of that group in then you bring the violence and fanaticism and anti-social views with them. 

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

How easy would it be to substitute Islam and Muslims for Catholic and Catholics in the above excerpts and be describing the stuff that is posted here and elsewhere daily.   

Not very, unless you can find where individual Catholics were blowing people up every day.

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

Perhaps if you could muster an original thought you wouldn't have been duped by professional xenophobic commentators.

Duped by people I've never read or heard. Right.

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

This thread is for those people who have already decided Hussain is a terrorist 

Then why are YOU on it?