Faisal Hussain - the evolving story

[capricorn]

12 minutes ago, turningrite said:

The other day, when in Toronto for the funeral of one of the victims and an obligatory visit to the Danforth, he looked like he wanted to be anywhere else.

You remind me. Trudeau just had to invoke his brother Michel who died in an avalanche some years back. I thought that was in bad taste. Another indicator he tried to change the channel. Additionally perhaps looking for some sympathy of his own?

[turningrite]

25 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Do you mean this Neil Macdonald opinion piece ?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/anti-islamophobia-motion-1.3994374

Yes, thanks. I twice got an error message when I tried to copy it. Who knows why?

[turningrite]

12 minutes ago, capricorn said:

You remind me. Trudeau just had to invoke his brother Michel who died in an avalanche some years back. I thought that was in bad taste. Another indicator he tried to change the channel. Additionally perhaps looking for some sympathy of his own?

A friend noted this as well, wondering whether Trudeau found it so difficult to summon sympathy/empathy for the actual victims that he had to find a way to personalize the situation. It's seemed to me over the past several days that the government would rather this incident just disappear. Does it now just consider this kind of thing a 'cost of doing business' in an interconnected world? If so, perhaps it should let the rest of us in on this. Trudeau's oddly detached statement on citizen safety, devoid of any explanation, was particularly worrying as he seemed to be admitting that such safety doesn't now exist. If I were him, I'd be very worried lest Canadians start to connect the dots and conclude that this government hasn't been particularly concerned about their security.

[taxme]

1 hour ago, turningrite said:

A friend noted this as well, wondering whether Trudeau found it so difficult to summon sympathy/empathy for the actual victims that he had to find a way to personalize the situation. It's seemed to me over the past several days that the government would rather this incident just disappear. Does it now just consider this kind of thing a 'cost of doing business' in an interconnected world? If so, perhaps it should let the rest of us in on this. Trudeau's oddly detached statement on citizen safety, devoid of any explanation, was particularly worrying as he seemed to be admitting that such safety doesn't now exist. If I were him, I'd be very worried lest Canadians start to connect the dots and conclude that this government hasn't been particularly concerned about their security.

I wonder if the real problem here is that many host Canadians are starting to get fed up and tired of listening to people like that woman Iquid and with all of those different races immigrating to Canada with their different cultures, languages, religions and traditions and trying to tell those many host fed up Canadians that we must accept and embrace their values and ways of life. Maybe if there were not so many of them coming to Canada in the numbers that they are being allowed to enter Canada today there would not be this problem. No country will survive if it allows way more immigrants from different cultures to start to outnumber the ones that makeup that country and what would appear to be the replacing of the people of that country with people who are not culturally compatible with that host countries people. We see many so called racists story's on the TV especially from the CBC where racism appears to be on the rise in Canada. When over 80% of the new immigrants coming to Canada are coming from third world countries it is not hard to see that there will be plenty of problems down the road. Our present day immigration policy is the reason that we are seeing so many of these so called racist incidents occurring. With the past two Islamic terrorist incidents that have taken place in Toronto in the past few months where many Canadians were injured or killed should be telling us that this present day immigration policy needs to be changed fast or more of those incidents are going to happen. These third world immigrants are not really trying or concerned about assimilating anymore into Canadian culture and they know that they do not have too thanks to the likes of our present day left wing liberal prime mistake of Canada. The kid encourages them that they do not need to assimilate anymore because Canada is now a multicultural and a diversity country which the majority of host Canadians never asked for. Just my opinion of course. 

[GostHacked]

23 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Yes...getting folks banned to shut-them-up is the only hope you really have re: your argument.

Considering most of what you are bitching about has already been debunked BEFORE you started goin off on 'Islam' n shit in this thread.  What argument do you really have? You are like 10 pages late to the thread. The stupidity astounds me.

Edited August 1, 2018 by GostHacked

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

This comes in line with the fact that terrorism in Canada is getting "bolder and bolder". 

Ok you seem to be saying that lies are necessary to combat terrorism.  Lying is justified by the intentions.  Well, that's exactly what people are saying Trudeau is doing.

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, Argus said:

1.You don't disagree but still want me to prove this sort of violent behaviour is common throughout the Muslim world? How? By posting repeated cites of religious violence? And then somehow posting the lack of same in non-Muslim countries (except of course that coming from Muslims), particularly in the West?

2. Then you say I have to prove it in response to a question I posed as to whether there are any other possible commonalities between such diverse nations. As my my demonstrating it 'objective', you do not appear to be being very objective.

1. Yes, if you are suggesting a causal link and suggesting major policy changes the onus on you is to show that your facts are objective.  How can you do that ?  You have to separate the religion from other cultural factors which is difficult if not impossible.

2. I don't think you really believe that the religion causes people to be violent.  If I became Muslim do you think I would become violent ?  I don't think so.  As such you are talking about a correlation, which means - at best, at least to me - being additionallly cautious.  But I don't think it's fair to punish people based on a religious grouping that is correlative.

 

Edited to add: It's not good for Canada either as we will be tossing out people for no good reason who could be good immigrants.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Michael Hardner

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

Evidence? Cite?

 

Here's one suggesting we intern them in camps.   Seems to be a good amount of anti-Islam stuff on here:

 

https://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/436-islam-is-a-failure/?page=2

[Centerpiece]

44 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. I don't think you really believe that the religion causes people to be violent.  If I became Muslim do you think I would become violent ?  I don't think so.  As such you are talking about a correlation, which means - at best, at least to me - being additionallly cautious.  But I don't think it's fair to punish people based on a religious grouping that is correlative.

 

If you can cleanse your mind of the rigidity of your thinking - look at Italians.......they have the Mafia within their "culture" - yet almost all Italians will have nothing to do with them and are absolutely OK with the whole of society vilifying them. And they all happen to be Catholic.  That's pretty much what I expect of Muslims - to openly and constantly vilify extremism, jihad and all the trappings - and to accept that it's OK for society as a whole - including Muslims of course - to vilify it. And our politicians have to be brave and bold enough to support that position - all for one and one for all - and together we marginalize those who would perpetrate these acts and foment violence. 

All that said, I'm not completely sure how Muslims can so clearly express their rejection/disgust with extremism and all it represents. There is no central mechanism. That's where our media and politicians come in - stop pussy-footing around. Get buy-in from Muslim groups and give them voice - a loud and clear voice. If there's a reluctance to buy-in, then we've actually got a problem.

[Michael Hardner]

22 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

1) If you can cleanse your mind of the rigidity of your thinking - look at Italians.......they have the Mafia within their "culture" - yet almost all Italians will have nothing to do with them and are absolutely OK with the whole of society vilifying them.

2) And they all happen to be Catholic.  That's pretty much what I expect of Muslims - to openly and constantly vilify extremism, jihad and all the trappings - and to accept that it's OK for society as a whole - including Muslims of course - to vilify it. 

3) All that said, I'm not completely sure how Muslims can so clearly express their rejection/disgust with extremism and all it represents.  

1) Italians are ok with the vilification of Italians ?  Or Mafia ?  Of course you can vilify 'terrorists' but nobody has suggested curtailing immigration from Italy.  Thanks for the example.

2) Yes they do

3) They belong to advocacy groups and associations that condemn extremism all the time.  After 9/11 people said that Muslims weren't condemning extremism but they were.

Violence against innocent Muslims is spiking, on the rise, and that is directly related to people muddying the waters around who exactly is to blame.  I would prefer that we all sit around in our tweed jackets and pipes and calmly discuss problems but the angertainment industry wants it another way: sell papers at the risk of innocent people getting beat up, and who cares ?

[DogOnPorch]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

 

Violence against innocent Muslims is spiking, on the rise, and that is directly related to people muddying the waters around who exactly is to blame.  

 

Oh yeah? Where?

[Centerpiece]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) Italians are ok with the vilification of Italians ?  Or Mafia ?  Of course you can vilify 'terrorists' but nobody has suggested curtailing immigration from Italy.  Thanks for the example.

 

The point is - almost all of us know that the Mafia is but a tiny subset of Italians. Likewise, regardless of your drum-beating - almost all of us know that extremists are but a small subset of Muslims. Sure - there are some lunkheads who paint with a broad brush - just like there's some puddin-heads who equate all Italians with the Mafia. To blow it all up into "islamaphobia" and hatred is just fear mongering where very little genuine hatred exists - a wooly-headed attempt to sew political divisions. Jews have had to "suck it up" for millenia - but no one has called for Jew-phobia legislation.

 

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Centerpiece said:

The point is - almost all of us know that the Mafia is but a tiny subset of Italians. Likewise, regardless of your drum-beating - almost all of us know that extremists are but a small subset of Muslims. Sure - there are some lunkheads who paint with a broad brush - just like there's some puddin-heads who equate all Italians with the Mafia. To blow it all up into "islamaphobia" and hatred is just fear mongering where very little genuine hatred exists - a wooly-headed attempt to sew political divisions. Jews have had to "suck it up" for millenia - but no one has called for Jew-phobia legislation.

 

 

The Quran. The indisputable and final word of Allah.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Centerpiece said:

1. almost all of us know that extremists are but a small subset of Muslims.

2. Sure - there are some lunkheads who paint with a broad brush - just like there's some puddin-heads who equate all Italians with the Mafia. To blow it all up into "islamaphobia" and hatred is just fear mongering where very little genuine hatred exists - a wooly-headed attempt to sew political divisions.

3. Jews have had to "suck it up" for millenia - but no one has called for Jew-phobia legislation.

 

1. I'm glad to see you post that.

2. Social dischord has a way of exploding pretty quickly and sowing divisions that take years to heal.

3. The Jews are the #1 victims of hate crimes in this country.  Holocaust Denial is a particular type of hate-sowing that is very rigorously pursued when it happens.  I'm sure you can see why.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. The Jews are the #1 victims of hate crimes in this country.  Holocaust Denial is a particular type of hate-sowing that is very rigorously pursued when it happens.  I'm sure you can see why.

 

Really ?    First Nations victims might disagree with your assessment.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

The point is - almost all of us know that the Mafia is but a tiny subset of Italians. Likewise, regardless of your drum-beating - almost all of us know that extremists are but a small subset of Muslims. Sure - there are some lunkheads who paint with a broad brush - just like there's some puddin-heads who equate all Italians with the Mafia. To blow it all up into "islamaphobia" and hatred is just fear mongering where very little genuine hatred exists - a wooly-headed attempt to sew political divisions. Jews have had to "suck it up" for millenia - but no one has called for Jew-phobia legislation.

 

It depends what you mean by extremists.  Terrorists, sure, but then I also dislike and have utter contempt for any who think that someone who draws a picture of Muhammad should be punished. And there's  lots of other stuff, too.   I'm not too keen on that bloody racket they say is a call to prayer, either.  But to be fair, I always felt the same way about church bells. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by bcsapper

[DogOnPorch]

Regardless of individual Muslims, the Quran still says to slay the Unbeliever among other things.

Re: 'tiny numbers' of Muslims being the killers: This is a fallacy called "Observational Selection" or what I like to term: "Oskar Schindler was a good Nazi."

Trump Jr's M&M analogy was apt...

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I'm glad to see you post that.

2. Social dischord has a way of exploding pretty quickly and sowing divisions that take years to heal.

3. The Jews are the #1 victims of hate crimes in this country.  Holocaust Denial is a particular type of hate-sowing that is very rigorously pursued when it happens.  I'm sure you can see why.

I always thought holocaust denial was farcical, and opened up the denier to ridicule. 

People can deny it 'till the cows come home if they want.

[DogOnPorch]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I always thought holocaust denial was farcical, and opened up the denier to ridicule. 

People can deny it 'till the cows come home if they want.

 

Yes...like Moon Hoaxers

[Centerpiece]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. The Jews are the #1 victims of hate crimes in this country.  Holocaust Denial is a particular type of hate-sowing that is very rigorously pursued when it happens.  I'm sure you can see why.

I'm glad to see you post that. I'm sure you can see why so many people feel any legislation that singles out "Islamaphobia" is mis-guided. 

[scribblet]

Thought this piece from a year ago was appra pro.   

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/carfentanil-the-drug-of-mass-destruction

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by scribblet

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Thought this piece from a year ago was approved

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/carfentanil-the-drug-of-mass-destruction#click=https://t.co/ORRTwK7t4e

 

 

Interesting...it says 42kg of a substance containing carfentanil...so HOW MUCH actual carfentanil?? 

Either way...42kg of any opiate is MASSIVE. We're not talking pot...

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Centerpiece said:

Jews have had to "suck it up" for millenia - but no one has called for Jew-phobia legislation.

There has been no call for Islamaphobia legislation either, merely a motion for a study.  

BTW, are you aware of the Ottawa Protocol?  A statement rather similar to M103 ....

Quote

We renew our call for national governments, parliaments, international institutions, political and civic leaders, NGOs, and civil society to affirm democratic and human values, build societies based on respect and citizenship and combat any manifestations of antisemitism and all forms of discrimination.

And guess what?  It was also criticized .. oddly similar criticisms to M103.

Quote

... critics of Israel made the point that the exclusive concern with anti-Semitism was disdainful of the more frequent pains of other victims of bigotry in Canada -- first nations, Moslems, visible minorities, refugees, women.

More criticism here

Quote

The London Declaration and its Ottawa Protocol seek to establish a standard for the censoring of free speech and critical thought on Middle-Eastern politics

And here

Quote

(Joanne Naiman, retired Ryerson University professor) concluded that the ICCA and its Canadian counterpart have been trying to inflate and reframe the statistics to justify a crackdown on critics of Israel.

“It is actually the Ottawa Protocol, in true Orwellian fashion, that is trying to blur the lines between true anti-Semitism and criticism of the Israeli state,” she said

The government has had 8 years to get that legislation done, but still nobody sent to jail for criticizing Isreal, imagine that.  Perhaps in a few years I'll check back here and laugh some more at all the folks so fearful of a single word in a motion for a study. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by dialamah

[scribblet]

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Interesting...it says 42kg of a substance containing carfentanil...so HOW MUCH actual carfentanil?? 

Either way...42kg of any opiate is MASSIVE. We're not talking pot...

Yup, calling it a wmd... no the word aproved was short for appropriate but darned tablet keeps changing it.

[DogOnPorch]

42 minutes ago, dialamah said:

There has been no call for Islamaphobia legislation either, merely a motion for a study.  

BTW, are you aware of the Ottawa Protocol?  A statement rather similar to M103 ....

And guess what?  It was also criticized .. oddly similar criticisms to M103.

More criticism here

And here

The government has had 8 years to get that legislation done, but still nobody sent to jail for criticizing Isreal, imagine that.  Perhaps in a few years I'll check back here and laugh some more at all the folks so fearful of a single word in a motion for a study. 

Jews don't have a book saying to kill the unbeliever and strike terror into their hearts.