Iran needs some democracy

[eyeball]

14 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

But you were a fan of the USSR rather than the West when younger. Weren't you?

Nah I leaned more towards Pol Pot.  Mo is in town now of course which is like a renaissance.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So what, the issue is that nothing justifies the west's Shiniest Beacons of democracy overthrowing democracy in Iran in 1953 ...

 

Irrelevant, as no "justification" is required....just ask the Japanese Empire in 1945...they got a much bigger dose of "democracy".

Iran was just another Cold War opportunity....nothing special.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Irrelevant, as no "justification" is required....just ask the Japanese Empire in 1945...they got a much bigger dose of "democracy".

Iran was just another Cold War opportunity....nothing special.

Should there ever be a reconciliation of this I sure hope the history and doctrine you and DOP subscribe to are the basis of the story we peddle.  Watching that would be hilarious.

[bush_cheney2004]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

Should there ever be a reconciliation of this I sure hope the history and doctrine you and DOP subscribe to are the basis of the story we peddle.  Watching that would be hilarious.

 

Not sure I understand....history and doctrine are driven by circumstance, not your need for comedy.

Iran (Persia) was once itself a violent purveyor of its own "doctrine" (still is).   Reconcile that....

Edited January 16, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[blackbird]

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

So what, the issue is that nothing justifies the west's Shiniest Beacons of democracy overthrowing democracy in Iran in 1953 and then installing a brutal bloodthirsty dictator, especially after turning around 65 years later and pretending democracy is finally blossoming where it never blossomed before.

Remember that story about Jesus kicking over the banksters tables?  He probably would have done something similar in the wake of the moral and ethical atrocity and crime against humanity the Shiny Beacons committed in Iran in 1953.

Jesus has been used as some kind of football for all kinds of doubtful things.  It has often been claimed Jesus was some kind of socialist or Marxist, but that is false.  He said his kingdom is not of this world.   I don't know the details about what you claim so won't comment on it.  All I can tell you, most people in the world don't understand the western concept of democracy.   Before that would work, the people would have to understand it and accept it.

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Jesus has been used as some kind of football for all kinds of doubtful things.  

I remember when Tom Brady was caught using a deflated Jesus to win games unfairly.  The Churches in Boston turned a blind eye though.

[GostHacked]

16 hours ago, eyeball said:

Should there ever be a reconciliation of this I sure hope the history and doctrine you and DOP subscribe to are the basis of the story we peddle.  Watching that would be hilarious.

I'll get the popcorn ready.  Should be a good show.  I am sure intervening in another nation is what the US needs now. Hows Afghanistan? Iraq?  How's the battle in Syria? OH and how about North Korea.. yeah  ..... also nice to see DoP resort to 'they are your terrorist friends'.  as if that is gonna really mean anything.

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I'll get the popcorn ready.  Should be a good show.  I am sure intervening in another nation is what the US needs now. Hows Afghanistan? Iraq?  How's the battle in Syria? OH and how about North Korea.. yeah  ..... also nice to see DoP resort to 'they are your terrorist friends'.  as if that is gonna really mean anything.

Being with the terrorists to the extent these morons imagine I am should have made me a target for monitoring, arrest and detention by CSIS years ago by rights.  I mean I practically threatened to blow DOP up if you recall.

[SpankyMcFarland]

I think most of us agree that Iran would benefit from democracy. 

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Being with the terrorists to the extent these morons imagine I am should have made me a target for monitoring, arrest and detention by CSIS years ago by rights.  I mean I practically threatened to blow DOP up if you recall.

 

You wished me dead at the hands of terrorists. 

And some of your allies agreed with your statement.

[CITIZEN_2015]

On 1/15/2018 at 7:49 PM, GostHacked said:

 I am sure intervening in another nation is what the US needs now. Hows Afghanistan? Iraq?  How's the battle in Syria? OH and how about North Korea.. yeah  ....

It is the Russians who bombed civilians and opposition forces to death in Syria and somehow the US gets the blame for intervention!!!!!!!!????? And let's talk about Afghanistan. The US invaded because Taliban was behind the 9-11 attack and Laden was hiding in Afghanistan but Russians invaded Afghanistan for expansionist reasons and massacred tens of thousands of defenseless civilians including children by their toy bombs made especially for them. As for Iraq again damn Russians were there long before US invasion. The entire Hussein's army was equipped with Russian weapons and they used the Russian tanks and Migs to massacre the minorities like Kurds and Shia muslims in the south,

The glasses you are wearing filteres out the very criminal actions by damn Russians and focuses on the US!!!!!.

 

On 1/15/2018 at 3:17 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

Iran (Persia) was once itself a violent purveyor of its own "doctrine" (still is).   Reconcile that....

This is utter nonsense. Persia was the center of civilization. They brought the very first Charter of human rights and freedom in the history some 2500 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_Cylinder

http://www.persepolis.nu/persepolis-cyrus.htm

It was only after Arab invasion and imposition of their culture when Persia became violent.

It is also stupid to say that it "still is" and demonstrates your ignorance as you don't distinguish between an unelected and evidently unpopular regime and its people the latter wishes to go back to pre-Arab invasion times when Persia stood for human rights and freedom in the world.

19 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I think most of us agree that Iran would benefit from democracy. 

It would be the WHOLE WORLD not just Iran who would benefit from democracy in Iran. From geopolitical view sitting on the top of Persian Gulf it is the most important country and not to mention that it has the third largest oil reserves, second largest gas reserves and highly educated population who tops any other middle eastern country by a wide margin. Iran should have been South Korea today instead it is North Korea. Sad.

Edited January 17, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

[GostHacked]

11 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

You wished me dead at the hands of terrorists. 

And some of your allies agreed with your statement.

You got a direct quote for that?  

[GostHacked]

12 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I think most of us agree that Iran would benefit from democracy. 

They were getting close to democracy before the Shah stuff.. Also Afghanistan was very progressive a few decades ago. What happened!??

[marcus]

How can Iranians or any other people trust for the West to bring in democracy to them with their record of working against democracies in favour of dictatorships?

[CITIZEN_2015]

Iranians do not need or expect the West to bring democracy to them. This would be made in US or made in the West democracy. they don't want this. They expect to achieve it on their own likely a western style parliamentary democracy and today's highly skilled and educated population is ready for that but Iran's society was not ready for that in 1953. The US had to act then because the Soviet puppets (Tudeh party) would have removed democratic Mossadegh in a coup and would have established a Soviet style dictatorship much worse than what followed in 1953.

However, the West can now help so that in the process of achieving democracy, it won't be at heavy cost to Iranians (like many thousands getting killed) by putting economic and political pressure on the regime not to crack down hard and watch their actions and make them realize that there will be severe consequences for those who order shooting peaceful defenseless demonstrators. US is doing it right but EU appears acting for short term interest only but hopefully they change their position soon. Russians will be the loser as they are backing the wrong horse.

West is always after its own interests and with The cold war over now,  it is now in the West's interest that there will be democracy in Iran which will also bring about an end to turmoil in many parts of middle east as well as a secure source, supply and route (strait of Hormuz)  for oil which is vital to the West.

Edited January 17, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

[-TSS-]

The former President of Iran said there are no gays in Iran, not a single one. If he said so it must be true. Why wouldn't we believe him?

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, -TSS- said:

The former President of Iran said there are no gays in Iran, not a single one. If he said so it must be true. Why wouldn't we believe him?

It could be true.  Isn't Iran where they toss them off of rooftops?

 

[GostHacked]

7 hours ago, Goddess said:

It could be true.  Isn't Iran where they toss them off of rooftops?

 

Interesting when the West sees Saudi Arabia as being more progressive than Iran.  When are we going to see regime change there?

[CITIZEN_2015]

9 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Interesting when the West sees Saudi Arabia as being more progressive than Iran.  When are we going to see regime change there?

That is usually how it is that puppet regimes like Saudi Arabia are masked as progressive in the eyes of the US and some Western countries no matter how stinky they may be. And those nations who fight for their rights and want independence then are marked as terrorists and hit with exaggerated rumors like tossing gays off baconies and nonsense like these. It also shows the lack of maturity and knowledge of some board members by the nonsense that they post. Interesting that so many sectors of Iran's society are suffering from an unelected regime responsible for a bad economy in spite of being a rich country and lack of freedom and repression of journalists, students, union leaders, human right activists, women's right activists, freedom seekers, and many other layers of the society and the focus is placed on gays on this board!!!!!!!!.

Edited January 18, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

That is usually how it is that puppet regimes like Saudi Arabia are masked as progressive in the eyes of the US and some Western countries no matter how stinky they may be. And those who fight for their rights and want independence then are marked as terrorists and hit with exaggerated rumors like tossing gays off baconies and nonsense like these. It also shows the lack of maturity and knowledge of some board members by the nonsense that they post. Interesting that so many sectors of Iran's society are suffering from an unelected regime responsible for a bad economy in spite of being a rich country and lack of freedom and repression of journalists, students, union leaders, human right activists, women's right activists, freedom seekers, and many other layers of the society and the focus is placed on gays on this board!!!!!!!!.

Yeah, we wouldn't want gay people to have rights...

Religious are you?

 

[CITIZEN_2015]

I was saying while 90% of a society is suffering then it doesn't make sense to put emphasis on the 1% again and again. If it was only the gays rights violated I would have agreed. Yes I do agree that gay people ought to have EQUAL rights but the universe is not revolving around them while all others are suffering too and not a word about them!!!!. As for me being religious, please don't make me laugh!!!.

Edited January 18, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I was saying while 90% of a society is suffering then it doesn't make sense to put emphasis on the 1% again and again. If it was only the gays rights violated I would have agreed. Yes I do agree that gay people ought to have EQUAL rights but the universe is not revolving around them while all others are suffering too and not a word about them!!!!. As for me being religious, please don't make me laugh!!!.

Well, it's not only gay people who get noticed on here for being oppressed in some Islamic countries.  Women, blasphemers, apostates, adulterers, girls with complete genitalia, girls who dishonour their families, they all get a mention.  Gay people are among those who could face the death penalty.  That's worthy of note.

Of course, most of the others could too.

Edited January 18, 2018 by bcsapper
forgot the "some".

[CITIZEN_2015]

I meant in this thread.

[H10]

US could defeat Iran militarily, but not occupy it long term in the same manner, its too big, too hilly, too far away, too hard to peentrate and Russia wouldn't allow it.

[DogOnPorch]

9 hours ago, H10 said:

US could defeat Iran militarily, but not occupy it long term in the same manner, its too big, too hilly, too far away, too hard to peentrate and Russia wouldn't allow it.

 

That's what folks said about Japan post WW2.