Moonlight Graham Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 47 minutes ago, hot enough said: It worked for a long time, lots of Brits and other whiteys. And it would be working today, had the US/Canadian/UK/... governments not committed those terrorist acts, the illegal invasions of ME and FE nations. It all boils down, or rather, boils up from 9-11, the new "Gulf of Tonkin". New information is soon going to show that it was all a ruse. In times or war, there's no excuse for attacking your own country on behalf of or in support of another country/countries, unless you're a traitor. 1 Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
hot enough Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: In times or war, there's no excuse for attacking your own country on behalf of or in support of another country/countries, unless you're a traitor. In times of illegal invasions, just like Hitler did, based on lies. We are not in times of war, because no war has been declared. It's just the powerful stealing from the poor. 1 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, hot enough said: In times of illegal invasions, just like Hitler did, based on lies. We are not in times of war, because no war has been declared. It's just the powerful stealing from the poor. How does all of that justify a Canadian citizen to take up arms , and fight again'st the coalition that Canada was a part of.....point of order that this coalition was formed and authorized by the UN Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
hot enough Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Army Guy said: How does all of that justify a Canadian citizen to take up arms , and fight again'st the coalition that Canada was a part of.....point of order that this coalition was formed and authorized by the UN The coalition was a lie, based on the big lie, that alleged hijackers caused the collapse of the wtc towers. Science illustrates clearly that that was the big lie. It was a Reichstag. Science tells us that there is a zero chance of NIST's report being correct. That means controlled demolition for all three towers. Science also tells us that that is the case. 2 Quote
overthere Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 On 3/14/2017 at 7:37 PM, blackbird said: The first duty of any government is to keep its citizens safe, not to seek fame and be adored. --Steven Blaney, MP What do you think? While Blaney is generally a blithering idiot and totally unfit to be PM, he is absolutely right about the first duty of this or any government: the safety and security of the nation must be the very first priority. That takes many forms domestically and abroad, including military strength, strong alliances, independent police, the importance of the independent judiciary, due process and most importantly the rule of law. A very major reason that people come to Canada as immigrants, and a very major reason for our quality of life, is that it is a relatively safe place on this fractious, uncertain and dangerous planet.. We wank on about 'Canadian values' all the time. Well, safety and security is right at the forefront of a short list. We will get ourselves in serious trouble if we forget that. 1 Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
PIK Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 18 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: I'm not going to defend Canada's military behaviour. But we live in an world of nationalism and an international system build on nation-states. if you choose your loyalty to middle-eastern countries over Canada, then you should not be a Canadian. There should be ZERO dual citizens allowed, absolutely ZERO exceptions. Choose your loyalty, choose it wisely, or else these types of things will occur. If you want to become a Canadian, you should be forced to renounce all other citizenships and swear absolute loyalty to Canada, and if you're a Canadian and want to become a citizen of another country, you should be forced to renounce your Canadian citizenship. And we need to encourage more Canadian nationalism and history from a young age to prevent home-grown terrorism. You can't have pride for your country when you know nothing about it and live within your own ethnic enclaves. Multiculturalism is all well and good and all cultures are welcomed to be practiced, but every single Canadian's first and primary national loyalty should be to Canada. Canadian culture should be considered primary, and all others secondary. If you don't agree to this, do not move to this country. I don't care if this terrorist a$$-hat has his citizenship revoked or not because he will rot in jail. But if you commit terrorism against your own government in defense of a foreign country or nation, I'm perfectly fine with you being stripped of your citizenship because you have committed treason on behalf of a foreign government. They have broken the oath of citizenship. The problem with home grown IMO is immigrants that will not let their canadian born kids become canadian. Always holding the old ways over thier heads. When a young man can't go out and get drunk and stoned and have casual sex, you are going to become a very angry young man. 1 1 Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Argus Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, Peter F said: Did he lie on his immigration application? Yes. He swore loyalty to Canada and its Queen and her heirs. Edited March 16, 2017 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
blackbird Posted March 16, 2017 Author Report Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, hot enough said: The coalition was a lie, based on the big lie, that alleged hijackers caused the collapse of the wtc towers. Science illustrates clearly that that was the big lie. It was a Reichstag. Science tells us that there is a zero chance of NIST's report being correct. That means controlled demolition for all three towers. Science also tells us that that is the case. So how do you explain the videos that were taken of the planes flying into the twin towers? How do you explain all the evidence that the planes were hijacked and passengers reported on their cell phones that they were hijacked? How do you explain the plane that flew into the pentagon? How do you explain the plane that crashed into the ground after some passengers fought the hijackers and a woman passenger phoned a relative on her cell phone and told what was happening? How do you explain the authorities have identified who each hijacker was and traced their lives up to the day of the attack? How do you explain the fact some took pilot training to learn how to fly the passenger jets in a basic way? Edited March 16, 2017 by blackbird Quote
Charles Anthony Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 Folks, Please avoid thread drift. Quote We do not have time for a meeting of the flat earth society. << Où sont mes amis ? Ils sont ici, ils sont ici... >>
taxme Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 21 hours ago, dre said: Deported for flag waving? Wow, that's nuts even by your standard. My neighborhood is an immigrant from the US and he has an American flag on a small pole on his patio. Revoke his citizenship and deport him? Brilliant Argus... just brilliant. Why is he/she flying an American flag when they should be flying a Canadian flag? Is he/she not proud to be Canadian? Did he/she immigrate to Canada to become Canadian or came to Canada for other reasons? Quote
?Impact Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 17 minutes ago, taxme said: Why is he/she flying an American flag when they should be flying a Canadian flag? Is he/she not proud to be Canadian? Did he/she immigrate to Canada to become Canadian or came to Canada for other reasons? What is wrong with celebrating your heritage? Are you going to walk into a bar tomorrow and tell all those Micks to go back to their homeland? Quote
Argus Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, ?Impact said: What is wrong with celebrating your heritage? Are you going to walk into a bar tomorrow and tell all those Micks to go back to their homeland? If they're rioting about a dispute between our government and the Irish government, while waving Irish flags - yes. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Moonlight Graham Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) 19 hours ago, hot enough said: In times of illegal invasions, just like Hitler did, based on lies. We are not in times of war, because no war has been declared. It's just the powerful stealing from the poor. We're at war with non-state actors. There's not been an official legal mechanism yet created to declare such, but that doesn't mean we aren't at war. We were also at war, legally and by UN resolution, in Afghanistan. But I'm certainly not defending everything Canada has done, and I understand the point you're trying to make. But attempting to commit terrorist acts against your own government and innocent civilians is just as illegal as invading another country illegally. One does not excuse the other. If this terrorist didn't like his country's policies, he can contact his MP, write in to a newspaper, or exercise his right as a Canadian to vote. You have no right to plan violence against civilians or your government when Canadian democracy doesn't go your way. His plan to murder innocent countrymen and attack his own country makes him a traitor. He's essentially a non-state actor declaring defacto war against his own country. He may be a Canadian by law but certainly not in his heart. Edited March 16, 2017 by Moonlight Graham Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Moonlight Graham Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 6 hours ago, PIK said: The problem with home grown IMO is immigrants that will not let their canadian born kids become canadian. Always holding the old ways over thier heads. When a young man can't go out and get drunk and stoned and have casual sex, you are going to become a very angry young man. No, I think it's a conflict of nationalism. Homegrown terrorists feel more connected to the Muslim nation and/or the nation of their ancestral country than they feel connected to the nation of Canada. It's about a sense of belonging, and a sense of loyalty to that group to which you feel you belong too. Religion is a very powerful sense of connection. You know the old saying: God, family, country (in that order). Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
eyeball Posted March 17, 2017 Report Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) We're as much a bunch of terrorists as the people retaliating against us. We started this so-called war when we shrugged off our highest values and principles by trucking and trading with dictators and their allies and enablers. Just about the saddest thing in the world right now is the sheer capacity of so many people in the west to so utterly ignore the fact our actions have been a lot more monstrous than the blowback its caused. I think its all this blather and emotional investment people have in notions about states, countries, countrymen that cripples their objectivity. Nationalism is most certainly at the core of the insanity gripping this poor beaten up planet of ours. The only way around it is to rise above it and shed all that crap like old dead skin and start thinking along the lines of planet, Earthlings and fellow beings so the notion of what a traitor is or does changes e.g. "I think the government of that (fill-in-many-names-here) country is a traitor to our species and planet". Like I said, deliberately placing a dictator in power and then enabling their ability to inflict pain and horror on our fellow human beings in the interest of some other stupid pissant country should rank as just about the worst possible crime against humanity that can be committed. A bunch of people being blown up is pretty unremarkable in comparison, especially when so much of the underlying reasons people are driven nuts enough to want to blow people up is a very related consequence of the far worse crime of blowing whole societies away by condemning them to dictatorships. I think the world is now so steeped in the sheer toxicity of this sort of behaviour that we're probably in a completely hopeless situation. No one is getting out alive or otherwise unscathed. Maybe they shouldn't given how resistant to growing up we've been as a species. Edited March 17, 2017 by eyeball 2 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
kactus Posted March 17, 2017 Report Posted March 17, 2017 7 hours ago, PIK said: The problem with home grown IMO is immigrants that will not let their canadian born kids become canadian. Always holding the old ways over thier heads. When a young man can't go out and get drunk and stoned and have casual sex, you are going to become a very angry young man. This is taking it too literally. Time has moved on and it is easy to fall into trap of saying immigrants don't integrate with the society whereas many do and have contributed immensely. Well IMO. Quote
OftenWrong Posted March 17, 2017 Report Posted March 17, 2017 49 minutes ago, kactus said: Time has moved on and it is easy to fall into trap of saying immigrants don't integrate with the society whereas many do and have contributed immensely. Well IMO. Have you been to Toronto lately? Even Angela Merkel admitted multiculturalism is a failure. Sorry, it's not working. A bit late now for Canada to figure that out. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted March 17, 2017 Report Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, eyeball said: We're as much a bunch of terrorists as the people retaliating against us. We started this so-called war when we shrugged off our highest values and principles by trucking and trading with dictators and their allies and enablers. Just about the saddest thing in the world right now is the sheer capacity of so many people in the west to so utterly ignore the fact our actions have been a lot more monstrous than the blowback its caused. I think its all this blather and emotional investment people have in notions about states, countries, countrymen that cripples their objectivity. Nationalism is most certainly at the core of the insanity gripping this poor beaten up planet of ours. The only way around it is to rise above it and shed all that crap like old dead skin and start thinking along the lines of planet, Earthlings and fellow beings so the notion of what a traitor is or does changes e.g. "I think the government of that (fill-in-many-names-here) country is a traitor to our species and planet". Like I said, deliberately placing a dictator in power and then enabling their ability to inflict pain and horror on our fellow human beings in the interest of some other stupid pissant country should rank as just about the worst possible crime against humanity that can be committed. I agree, except for the nationalism part, because that's simply not avoidable IMO. People have always and will always have group identity because certain groups of peoples share aspects of culture together. Canadians and ie: Iranians or Saudis have different cultures, and these different societies can learn to get along well & treat each other nicely, but not under the same roof, because conflicting cultures often clash when there is a power struggle for political control of how a society should function. Getting rid of nationalism, if even possible, won't mean the powerful will stop exploiting the weak, or that normally decent people will stop ignoring these atrocities, because this happens within cultures too. Multiculturalism sounds like a good idea, and it can be, but when it turns into multi-nationalism that can be a very divisive and dangerous thing. Look at Quebec or Northern Ireland and tell me I'm wrong. Look at just about every civil war and tell me I'm wrong. Different cultural groups yearn for self-determination, and often have a right to have it. Edited March 17, 2017 by Moonlight Graham Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Michael Hardner Posted March 17, 2017 Report Posted March 17, 2017 Yes, the initial topic PLEASE. Charles has already asked us not to drift this thread once. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
eyeball Posted March 17, 2017 Report Posted March 17, 2017 You moderators just refuse to get it, this thread like hundreds of others in this forum are mere asides to the unresolved unmitigated core of the topic which of course is the Wests violent and abusive interference in the ME. Its exactly like sexual abuse in a family, Until such time as that core problem of abuse is resolved and mitigated the dysfunction it's caused will never go away. Ever. Get used to it. 3 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Rue Posted March 17, 2017 Report Posted March 17, 2017 On 2017-03-14 at 9:37 PM, blackbird said: Conservative candidate Steven Blaney said: Do you think a terrorist who swears an Oath of Citizenship and then murders innocent people should be allowed to retain his Canadian citizenship? Well, Liberal Immigration Minister Ahmed Hussen thinks so. Indeed, Justin Trudeau and his Liberals want to return Canadian citizenship to Zakaria Amara, a convicted terrorist. I disagree with him. I strongly believe citizenship revocation has to be an option for convicted terrorists holding dual citizenship who have come to our country to kill Canadians. That is why in 2015, our Conservative government passed bill C-24 which allows for the revocation of citizenship for those immigrant citizens who have committed acts of terrorism. Justin Trudeau and his liberals are about to change that. The first duty of any government is to keep its citizens safe, not to seek fame and be adored. --Steven Blaney, MP What do you think? No. Terrorists convicted of murder should be administered a needle and then cremated. Quote
kactus Posted March 17, 2017 Report Posted March 17, 2017 16 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Have you been to Toronto lately? Even Angela Merkel admitted multiculturalism is a failure. Sorry, it's not working. A bit late now for Canada to figure that out. I cannot say I have and therefore not qualify to give commentary... I am visiting Toronto this summer for vacation to see some of my immigrant relatives.... I just believe it is wrong to paint all immigrants with one brush and find it stupid to apply one rule for everyone just like the way I have argued against Trumps stupid ban on innocent immigrants from those countries.... Quote
hot enough Posted March 17, 2017 Report Posted March 17, 2017 38 minutes ago, Rue said: No. Terrorists convicted of murder should be administered a needle and then cremated. As the world leading terrorists are the folks, gigantic in number, [how many terrorists from all the US administrations can dance on the head of a pin?] who started all this with many lies, the authorities are going to be very very busy. Perhaps a make work project for drug addicts. Quote
hot enough Posted March 17, 2017 Report Posted March 17, 2017 On 3/16/2017 at 10:49 AM, Argus said: Yes. He swore loyalty to Canada and its Queen and her heirs. That is such terribly ignorant pro forma garbage. "Listen, do exactly as we see in this free and open society or you're outta here". Never once filling immigrants in on the genocide, the war crimes, the terrorism, the support for a country that murders their kin and steals their kin's wealth. "Welcome to democracy, immigrants, now shut your mouths and toe the party line." Quote
PIK Posted March 17, 2017 Report Posted March 17, 2017 49 minutes ago, kactus said: I cannot say I have and therefore not qualify to give commentary... I am visiting Toronto this summer for vacation to see some of my immigrant relatives.... I just believe it is wrong to paint all immigrants with one brush and find it stupid to apply one rule for everyone just like the way I have argued against Trumps stupid ban on innocent immigrants from those countries.... This country is changing fast and that is a problem, get use to it. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
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