kimmy Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 If I'm the manager at a Cactus Club, say, and one of my waitresses decides she wants to wear a full length granny-dress and saddle shoes, should I be required to accept her wishes? -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Kimmy, I'll flip that back on you. So you think the way to ensure no granny dresses and saddle shoes is to stipulate high heels and cleavage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 So let me get this right....female servers should have the option of displaying lots of skin but not be mandated to do so as part of the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Kimmy, I'll flip that back on you. So you think the way to ensure no granny dresses and saddle shoes is to stipulate high heels and cleavage? At Hooters they wear the standard outfit (tank top and shorts,leg warmers and running shoes), every now and then you see a few wearing the football shirt. What should the girls be wearing if not the uniform? As for Moxies, I see them all dressed similar but different - some showing more, some less (wearing what they choose to buy and wear). It seems at Moxies that the important thing is looking clean and attractive. What's wrong with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 I feel like a restauranteur should be able to create the kind of atmosphere and customer experience that they want to. I think that if they make it clear in the employment agreement that this is how the wait staff are expected to dress, then it's reasonable to expect wait staff to dress that way. If a member of the wait staff later decides that they feel like showing up for work in a granny dress and saddle-shoes, or sweat-pants and Crocs, or whatever, I think like the employer should be allowed to send them home. The expectations were set out when you applied. I do have some sympathy for the Bier Markt waitresses who had the blue Lieutenant Uhura microdresses made of swimsuit fabric sprung on them out of the blue. That's certainly different from what they signed up for. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) Kimmy, I don't disagree about 'reasonable' attire but the article in discussion is specifically about dress codes that *require* high heels and short skirts. Hypothetical worst case scenarios don't in any way make a point for the dress code unless you agree with it. Edited March 9, 2016 by BC_chick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 At Hooters they wear the standard outfit (tank top and shorts,leg warmers and running shoes), every now and then you see a few wearing the football shirt. What should the girls be wearing if not the uniform? As for Moxies, I see them all dressed similar but different - some showing more, some less (wearing what they choose to buy and wear). It seems at Moxies that the important thing is looking clean and attractive. What's wrong with that? Again, read the article. First two paragraphs. This is about eliminating dress codes that *require* high heels, short skirts or cleavage. That's the issue here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 I don't disagree about 'reasonable' attire but the article in discussion is specifically about dress codes that *require* high heels and short skirts. Hypothetical worst case scenarios don't in any way make a point for the dress code unless you agree with it. What if it's not worst case? Say it's not a granny dress or sweat pants, but still clothes that don't fit with the atmosphere the restaurant wants to create? "Yeah, I know all the other girls wear above-the-knee black dresses, but I just felt like dressing down today." -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) Again, read the article. First two paragraphs. This is about eliminating dress codes that *require* high heels, short skirts or cleavage. That's the issue here. Then why are they mentioning Moxies and Hooters? Hooters doesn't have high heels, shirts or cleavage (unless the girl chooses a too small shirt) and Ive seen girls at Moxies wearing boots and blouses buttoned to the top. The girls at twin peaks wear cargo shorts and hiking boots - yes, some cleavage (again, depends on size of shirt they wear and bra). I think they are making the point about dressing sexually in general. Edited March 9, 2016 by Hal 9000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 What if it's not worst case? Say it's not a granny dress or sweat pants, but still clothes that don't fit with the atmosphere the restaurant wants to create? "Yeah, I know all the other girls wear above-the-knee black dresses, but I just felt like dressing down today." -k You didn't really answer. Point blank question - do you think it's acceptable to put forth a dress code that would have cleavage, high heels or short skirts as a prerequisite to serve food in a place that does not promote itself as anything but a restaurant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Then why are they mentioning Moxies and Hooters? Hooters doesn't have high heels, shirts or cleavage (unless the girl chooses a too small shirt) and Ive seen girls at Moxies wearing boots and blouses buttoned to the top. The girls at twin peaks wear cargo shorts and hiking boots - yes, some cleavage (again, depends on size of shirt they wear and bra). I think they are making the point about dressing sexually in general. Who knows, the crux of it is in the question I asked Kimmy in my last post. What are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Me too. Before I finished my education and became professional BC_Chick, I worked in restaurants, sports-bars, strip bars, pretty much any place I could capitalize on my looks and I made a tonne of money. I concur, it was never a bad situation and I never felt exploited (except for one creepy owner, but that's one exception). However, anything I wore was my choice and I was never that I must wear a sexy uniform in order to have the job. I think this is where a lot of misunderstanding on this thread has come from. I don't think it's about forcing women to cover up and wear flats, it's about NOT making them high heels and show cleavage in order to keep their jobs. The high heels are my biggest issue in all this. They should never be requirement for serving food. I've eaten in a lot of restaurants, both high end and fast food, and I honestly don't think I've ever seen waitresses wearing high heels. In the strip clubs however.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 I think the next engineering meeting I attend for our client, I'm gonna where shorts, sandals, a skull cap and a very loud Hawaiian shirt (or maybe my favorite Iggy Pop t-shirt). I wonder if the boss will say anything.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 I've eaten in a lot of restaurants, both high end and fast food, and I honestly don't think I've ever seen waitresses wearing high heels. In the strip clubs however....The examples are in the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 I think the next engineering meeting I attend for our client, I'm gonna where shorts, sandals, a skull cap and a very loud Hawaiian shirt (or maybe my favorite Iggy Pop t-shirt). I wonder if the boss will say anything....Choose your fallacy: False Dichotomy, Red Herring, Strawman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybolts Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Buisness owners should be allowed to place what requirements they choose on dress codes. If one agrees to it then so be it. Personaly I think people should wear what they choose, unless its over the top tasteless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ohrc-urges-end-skimpy-dress-codes-1.3480998 Only in Canada this would be an issue for people. Bars that sexualize their staff is very commonplace. People who apply for these jobs know that they're being used for their sex appeal to make money for the business. Often it makes them a lot of money. Usually these restaurants are marketing to a specific clientele where the appearance of the waitress or bartender is a selling point. Legislating this kind of stuff is a huge slippery slope for any profession where appearance is an important aspect employment. Clearly the women required to submit to this gender discrimination and sexual harassment are speaking out and unwilling to allow these violations of labour law and human rights to continue. The laws are there. Now they choose to act.Maybe the men who demand tits for tips should think about service instead, and go to a strip bar or brothel to pay for sexual services. Can female nurses be told they have to show cleavage to serve their patients? Secretaries? House cleaners? Why are bar/restaurant staff subjected to something we would not demand of others? . Edited March 9, 2016 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Choose your fallacy: False Dichotomy, Red Herring, Strawman. Wrong, wrong and wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Perhaps. But a waitress can choose to work at a place like the Keg or Milestones if they feel they want to dress in business casual attire. Sports Bars who cater to mostly men may want to present a different image. The women they hire may not want to. The law says they don't have to. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Can the waitress then file a civil suit if said "uniform" causes workplace distress? High heels 10hr a day / 5 days a week seems the same as if you forced a carpenter to use a tack hammer to frame a house......he could do it but the workplace injuries..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 The high heels are my biggest issue in all this. They should never be requirement for serving food. Agree with this. Even the three inch heels mandated by a restaurant profiled on Marketplace are enough to create Heath issues. Most places have some kind of dress code, so I don't think that's a problem, but for serve jobs, the choice to dress extra-sexy for tips should be the server's choice rather than the company's directive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 You didn't really answer. Point blank question - do you think it's acceptable to put forth a dress code that would have cleavage, high heels or short skirts as a prerequisite to serve food in a place that does not promote itself as anything but a restaurant? Yes. As I said previously, a restaurant is not just providing food, they are providing an atmosphere and an experience. How about you? Do you feel an employee should be able to ignore their employer's dress code? -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 I believe that men and women should be treated equally. I also trust that women, like men, are quite capable of making up their own minds. When a person is employed, they agree to a contract. That contract lays out the conditions of employment as per the wishes of the employer, employee and within the labor code. You sign on then you follow the terms of the contract. Personally, I tip according to service. I expect the service to be polite, informative (only when asked), and invisible. We do not dine out to meet waitresses or waiters. We dine out to enjoy our chosen company and/or each other. I do not associate sexiness with food. If I want sexy I go where sexy is - not where food is. I have been served by buxom waitresses showing lots of cleavage, especially when bending over to to serve, pick up or clean. I find that distracting and inappropriate in a dining setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Yes. As I said previously, a restaurant is not just providing food, they are providing an atmosphere and an experience. How about you? Do you feel an employee should be able to ignore their employer's dress code? -k Thank you for answering. Staying on topic on this thread has been like pulling teeth. As for my feeling about employee's ignoring dress codes - you should start a thread and we could discuss it. Here, I thought we were discussing whether or not restaurants that do not cater to sexy uniform niche markets should be allowed to stipulate dress codes which include things like high heels, cleavage or very short skirts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Agree with this. Even the three inch heels mandated by a restaurant profiled on Marketplace are enough to create Heath issues. Most places have some kind of dress code, so I don't think that's a problem, but for serve jobs, the choice to dress extra-sexy for tips should be the server's choice rather than the company's directive. Yeah, high heels are not good for long hours. I would really like to see this practice outlawed making it a woman's personal choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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