CITIZEN_2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) But what is fairer? In your percentages you forget that there is a provincial portion to income taxes which is added to the federal portion and takes taxes for higher income earners over the 50% bracket, over 60% in New Brunswick. If you take that much it discourages people from working harder, and encourages them to hide their money or go black market. No I did consider provincial taxes and they should go up for the rich same as the federal tax. A fairer society is where we have no hungry children going to school hungry no cold seniors who can't afford medicine no homeless no hungry and we should not have either those people who have so much that living heaven like in big houses, driving luxury cars, expensive furniture, travelling several times a year in expensive hotel and resorts. Especially in the country which is a rich country it is highly unacceptable that we should have hungry and homeless people and poor seniors. There is enough wealth and resources on this planet that everyone can have a good at least middle class life. The reason that we have poor and hungry and homeless people is because there is a tiny minority (mainly in rich countries) who wish to own much more than any human being needs. The top 1% of earth population owns significant portion of wealth. This is unacceptable and must change. A new report issued by the Swiss bank Credit Suisse finds that global wealth inequality continues to worsen and has reached a new milestone, with the top 1 percent owning more of the world’s assets than the bottom 99 percent combined. They should be encouraged to work harder and feel good that by doing so they help the less privileged even more however for those who try to steal (and there no other word for that) by hiding their income or other evasive techniques I would encourage heavy sentences like mandatory prison terms. Edited November 20, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015
drummindiver Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 If you seriously imagine any of this will somehow become the law of the land in Canada you are in need of a psychiatrist. If you would point out where I said that, that would be great.
eyeball Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 If you would point out where I said that, that would be great. I said if and then pointed to your imagination. This notion that Sharia law will supplant our legal system is an old old meme that's been rattling around the heads of people who very similarly espouse much of what you're saying for years and years now. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
drummindiver Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 I said if and then pointed to your imagination. This notion that Sharia law will supplant our legal system is an old old meme that's been rattling around the heads of people who very similarly espouse much of what you're saying for years and years now. Nice back pedal. And I've never said that Sharia will usurp any government, though not from lack of trying. I was discussing what I considered radical. I consider Sharia radical. Sorry if you take offence at my opinion.
Scotty Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 Canada has over 1 million Muslims living here. If there was any danger to Canada because of their faith, we would have experienced it by now. We have. I don't think anyone would disagree that there are groups and people who have a warped interpretation of Islam. Where they are willing to engage in disgusting, barbaric acts like ISIL continues to display. No, but mainstream Islam has some pretty nasty messages, like the ones I posted. Copying and pasting quotes from the Quran to somehow show evidence of what Muslims are like is also idiotic. MANY of the words in the Quran are copied from the old and new testament. The old and new testament have just as many stupid texts in them. They are all man-written. First, someone demanded to see where the Koran said that Muslims should treat non-Muslims badly. So I did. Second, please show evidence to support your statement that many of the words in the koran are copied from the bible. It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
eyeball Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 Nice back pedal. And I've never said that Sharia will usurp any government, though not from lack of trying. I was discussing what I considered radical. I consider Sharia radical. Sorry if you take offence at my opinion. I agree the tenet's of Sharia law you highlighted are entirely nuts. Sorry if you took offence at my concern for the state of your mind. I stand by my contention that a lot of people with an overt concern about refugees and immigrants believe these tenets will become the law of the land here. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Scotty Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I guess I'm Islamophobic. ---SNIP--- -k I agree with everything above. Edited November 21, 2015 by Charles Anthony [---SNIP---] It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 Though I can appreciate where you're coming from, Naheed Nenshi, though born here, sort of proves that your generalizations are overly broad. I don't like Islam any more than you do, but your characterization isn't fair. Generalizations never include every single member of a group. How could they possibly? But that doesn't mean what is being said isn't generally true of the group as a whole. It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
BC_chick Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I know that people are promising "no no, these guys are moderates! They're leaving their countries because they don't want to live with the likes of ISIS or the Taliban anymore!" Well, "moderate" has very different meaning in the Middle East vs in Canada. In the Middle East, a moderate is somebody who thinks that homosexuality or atheism should be punished with jail time instead of execution. I know a Muslim Canadian family who are all very well educated, with several doctors amongst them. They offer their time helping out the needy and travel to all parts of the world, in South America, Far East, everywhere, and they provide free medical help to the poor. From what they told me, it's their religious duty to do that. They don't drink but keep some in the house for guests. They support SSM. They don't wear hijab because they say there is nothing about head covering in the Koran. I'm a total heathen infidel and they genuinely love me without judging my life's choices. You're stereotyping, moderate Muslims do exist. Edited November 20, 2015 by BC_chick It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
On Guard for Thee Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 I agree with everything above.Sure you do. The problem is that everything above is simply a thinly veiled attempt to try and hide bigotry, and take the squirm factor out of it.
Scotty Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 I know a Muslim Canadian family who are all very well educated, with several doctors amongst them. I guess that means everything she said about Muslims is wrong then. It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 Sure you do. The problem is that everything above is simply a thinly veiled attempt to try and hide bigotry, and take the squirm factor out of it. In English the word "bigot" refers to a person whose habitual state of mind includes an obstinate, irrational, or unfair intolerance of ideas, opinions, or beliefs that differ from their own, and intolerance of the people who hold them. Who on this web site can honestly claim to be free of this? You and others who use the word don't understand it and render it meaningless. It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
BC_chick Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 I guess that means everything she said about Muslims is wrong then. She said a moderate Muslim believes in punishing gays instead of killing them and I gave an example of devout Muslim family doing exactly the opposite. If you fail to see the relevance of my post, that's on you. It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
BC_chick Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) My experience with Muslims has been pretty much the same as with Jews and Christians. They are mostly very nice and take all the good from what their religion tells them. I agree that the bad amongst them is worse than the bad amongst Christians and Jews, but I think that's because in this clash of civilizations, the zealout Christians and Jews have their governments do their killing for them so they don't have a need for a milia. Otherwise I could see Christian and Jewish zealouts just as easily become violent over their religious beliefs. There are psychopaths in every bunch. Edited November 20, 2015 by BC_chick It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
On Guard for Thee Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 In English the word "bigot" refers to a person whose habitual state of mind includes an obstinate, irrational, or unfair intolerance of ideas, opinions, or beliefs that differ from their own, and intolerance of the people who hold them. Who on this web site can honestly claim to be free of this? You and others who use the word don't understand it and render it meaningless. a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance I suspect those of us who use the word do in fact understand what it means, and simply want to call a spade a spade.
marcus Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I never said that they represent all muslims. You mentioned youtube video and posted one, as did I. I stated earlier in this thread that radical muslims comprise 25-30%, and posted links. With 1.5 billion muslims, even if that were just 10%, we are looking at 1.5 million radicals. Even with that, I have never suggested we don't help refugees. I have always held proper vetting, as with all refugees, take place. The 25-30% is suspect. Are there 1.5 million radicals willing to blow themselves up and kill innocent people? I don't know. Are Muslims in Saudi Arabia, in average, different than Muslims in Turkey or Iran? Yes. One of the issues here is that saying "Muslim are..." is not logical. There are so many types of Muslims out there with different cultural practices, beliefs and ideas. It's illogical and irrational to try to explain all 1.5 billion Muslims by describing the acts or thoughts of one group. Regardless, the fear of Muslim radicals has created illogical fear and has created a very immature and negative attitude towards a certain group. Fear based on ignorance and generalization only creates a cycle of negativity in a culture. Did you know that you are four times more likely to be struck by lightning than killed by a terrorists? We have a lot more pressing issues to deal with in our society. Edited November 20, 2015 by marcus "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
-1=e^ipi Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 What would help is if society were more open to allowing for nuanced debate and discussion. But instead a significant share of the population, especially those in power, simply label those with dissenting opinion as racists and islamophobes.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 ... Did you know that you are four times more likely to be struck by lightning than killed by a terrorists? We have a lot more pressing issues to deal with in our society. Data doesn't apply to Canada. Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 Data doesn't apply to Canada.What, you don't think we have lightning in Canada?
Black Dog Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 What would help is if society were more open to allowing for nuanced debate and discussion. But instead a significant share of the population, especially those in power, simply label those with dissenting opinion as racists and islamophobes. I would have thought someone who considered themselves such a spirited defender of treating people as individuals instead of as parts of a group would have something to say about the broad brushstrokes being applied to Muslims, but I guess treating people as individuals only applies to the truly oppressed: white males.
scribblet Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 People are not inhumane, racist or xenophobic for recognizing that taking in huge numbers of migrants would place great strain and pressure on our health systems, housing and schools. These are genuine and responsible concerns along with security concerns in light of recent events. Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
-1=e^ipi Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 I would have thought someone who considered themselves such a spirited defender of treating people as individuals instead of as parts of a group would have something to say about the broad brushstrokes being applied to Muslims, but I guess treating people as individuals only applies to the truly oppressed: white males. I would have thought that someone who considered themselves such a spirited defender of progressive values would have something to say about the evils of Nazism. But I guess you are secretly a Nazi. It is impossible for anyone to mention everything they condemn in every sentence (unless the person either condemns nothing or doesn't use sentences).
BC_chick Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 o I don't know. Are Muslims in Saudi Arabia, in average, different than Muslims in Turkey or Iran? Yes. One of the issues here is that saying "Muslim are..." is not logical. There are so many types of Muslims out there with different cultural practices, beliefs and ideas. It's illogical and irrational to try to explain all 1.5 billion Muslims by describing the acts or thoughts of one I think this is very true. It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
dialamah Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 People are not inhumane, racist or xenophobic for recognizing that taking in huge numbers of migrants would place great strain and pressure on our health systems, housing and schools. These are genuine and responsible concerns ....I would agree with you to this point, those are valid concerns. At the same time, I wouldn't want those discussions to turn into a constant declaration that "Refugees get (way more) than Canadians do, and "our people" are being unfairly treated" - and by "our people", they mean the richest, most privileged Canadian demographic. along with security concerns in light of recent events.Not so much. Security is a concern, certainly, but much less of a concern than some people think.
drummindiver Posted November 20, 2015 Report Posted November 20, 2015 My experience with Muslims has been pretty much the same as with Jews and Christians. They are mostly very nice and take all the good from what their religion tells them. I agree that the bad amongst them is worse than the bad amongst Christians and Jews, but I think that's because in this clash of civilizations, the zealout Christians and Jews have their governments do their killing for them so they don't have a need for a milia. Otherwise I could see Christian and Jewish zealouts just as easily become violent over their religious beliefs. There are psychopaths in every bunch. What a ridiculous assertion. Why do you insist on making excuses for terrorismÉ And really, you must not read a single news article if you believe that muslim governments aren`t killing ppl.
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