Scotty Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 No, actually, bombs on their own don't solve anything but the immediate situation (I support continuing the bombing to deal with the current situation, btw. That said, without boots on the ground and a long term occupation, the outcome is...well, ISIS. The evidence is the existence of Western Civilization. What you are referring to as western civilization took centuries of reform to come about. Religious reform was an intrinsic part of that, and there is no sign the Islamic world is interested in reforming the hateful messages in their religious books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Tell that to the gay people in Uganda, where the Christian bible is used to justify murdering gay men and gang-raping gay women. People actually consider it their "duty" to thus "punish" homosexuals. I don't live in Uganda. Their problems are their problems. They aren't exporting them to my section of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 As I said earlier in the thread, people are attacked every day for a variety of reasons. The media is simply waiting to pounce on any sign of prejudicial treatment of Muslims right now. The woman was robbed and her attackers said nasty things to her. That's unfortunate but hardly shocking. People who mug people are rarely polite. She wasn't a mugging victim who just happened to be Muslim. She was attacked for being Muslim. Can you see the clear difference or are you thick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Which of the following are from the Christian bible, and which are from the Koran? I'm not a religious scholar but I would say the ones people are paying attention to and living their lives by came from the Koran and the ones people are pretty much ignoring came from the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 She wasn't a mugging victim who just happened to be Muslim. She was attacked for being Muslim. Can you see the clear difference or are you thick? You've interviewed the muggers, have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 What you are referring to as western civilization took centuries of reform to come about. Christian civilization has a 1,000 year head start ion Islam. Religious reform was an intrinsic part of that, and there is no sign the Islamic world is interested in reforming the hateful messages in their religious books. 1,000, hell, 500, years ago, you could have said the same thing about Christianity. And yet here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) She wasn't a mugging victim who just happened to be Muslim. She was attacked for being Muslim. Can you see the clear difference or are you thick? You don't know that. These people haven't been found yet. Evil people are going to find whatever reason to be evil. They said racist things to her according to the lady. If the lady was black or hispanic, would it have made the news? Edited November 19, 2015 by Boges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 You've interviewed the muggers, have you? Right I'm sure it's a coincidence this took place right after Paris and the racial slurs were purely incidental. Good lord, you are thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 You don't know that. These people haven't been found yet. Evil people are going to find whatever reason to be evil. And as a society we consider motivation when looking at these things. They said racist things to her according to the lady. If the lady was black or hispanic, would it have made the news? If they called her a nigger or spic while attacking her? Yes, yes it would have. I don't understand your desperate need to downplay this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 And as a society we consider motivation when looking at these things. If they called her a nigger or spic while attacking her? Yes, yes it would have. I don't understand your desperate need to downplay this. Acts of terrorism are always downplayed as isolated incidents. I'm just giving this incident the same level of perspective. Even if these guys said, see what happened in Paris, lets go find a Muslim person a beat her up, those people are evil but it's not a sign that Islamophobia is a huge problem in this country. Interestingly, I believe, this happened in Premiere Wynne's riding. If there was ever a place on Canada that you'd think would be progressive and tolerant, it'd be that part of Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 You don't know that. These people haven't been found yet. Evil people are going to find whatever reason to be evil. They said racist things to her according to the lady. If the lady was black or hispanic, would it have made the news? It would have if blacks or hispanics had done the killing in France. And since the guy reportedly called her a terrorist, told her to go back to her country, and then tore off her hijab, I think it should be fairly easy to figure out his motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Acts of terrorism are always downplayed as isolated incidents. I'm just giving this incident the same level of perspective. Since when? Give me an example. Even if these guys said, see what happened in Paris, lets go find a Muslim person a beat her up, those people are evil but it's not a sign that Islamophobia is a huge problem in this country. Who said it was? But there's no denying it's an example of Islamophobia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 It hardly matters. They all come from the same community. The question is why would Canada want to increase the size of that community here. That goes back to what we are collectively doing in the M.E, taking out some tyrannical governments, while supporting other tyrannical governments. The military campaign against terrorism over the past 15-20 years has not accomplished anything. Drone strikes on many nations to get suspected (not even confirmed) terrorists is causing widespread damage making these nations not habitable. Cities bombed, infrastructure destroyed. So where are they going? And WHY are they going? Most are failing to even look at those questions. So instead we always blame them for their actions, but never blame ourselves for making that scenario possible where these actions can take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 I'm not a religious scholar but I would say the ones people are paying attention to and living their lives by came from the Koran and the ones people are pretty much ignoring came from the Bible. From the bible: "and contrary to my command has worshipped other gods …. take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death" Deuteronomy 17.5 “Utterly destroy all that they have and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.” 1 Samuel 15:3 “I will make my arrows drunk with blood and sword shall devour flesh.” Deuteronomy 32:42 “But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you.” Luke 6:27 There is plenty of 'justification' in the Bible for the same kind of barbarism that Daesh currently justify using the Koran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Since most of the world is at war with the Muslims or should I say SOME called terrorists, isn't it natural for one to think at first? Of course, it could be hired Muslims working for the CIA like Bin Laden was to expand the war in the ME to invade, destroy and conquer and I could be wrong but did u think a plane would fly into the tower in NY? It's a very nasty world we live in today. Most of the world is not at war with Islam. Islam is at war with the rest of the world. If it was just one or two countries, ok, maybe there's a little bigotry going on. When the whole world has the same problem, the problem isn't the rest of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 We are very fortunate that the anti-Muslims and war mongers are a minority in Canada. When I read some of the posts in this thread I can see why ISIS is so successful. The bright lights continue their "bomb them into the ground" mantra as the numbers of people streaming into ISIS increase. I am disappointed to see that so many can be fooled so much by so few. I think I will stay with impartial journalists and experts in the field for information. "Impartial journalists"/ Like who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Are we using holy books to explain bad behavior by individuals within a religion ? If so, we have passages in the bible that also prescribe horrible penalties. Doesn't that mean that there are other reasons ? So, you are suggesting the people are to blame. And I agree. Blaming the book is the same as a child saying his brother told him to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 The attack was carried out by Islamic terrorists, just as the attack on a Muslim woman was carried out by Canadian assholes. Blaming an entire group of 1.6 billion people responsible for the actions of 1% of their members is the epitome of lazy, ignorant and racist thinking. You realize that 25-30% of muslims identify as radical? That's over 300 million people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 You realize that 25-30% of muslims identify as radical? That's over 300 million people. cite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Since when? Give me an example. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ottawa-shooting-anniversary-muslims-1.3282199 The idea that the Ottawa terrorist wasn't motivated by Islam at all but was simply mentally ill. The term Lone Wolf is used to imply they aren't part of a greater problem. Who said it was? But there's no denying it's an example of Islamophobia. The idea of this thread that it's an issue that needs to be dealt with. 2 separate incidents seem to indicate that this is now a great problem that needs to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 You realize that 25-30% of muslims identify as radical? That's over 300 million people. Cite please ? You're stating something very specific there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/01/concerns-about-islamic-extremism-on-the-rise-in-middle-east/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Your numbers look high based on that survey. Argus has used Pew in the past, so I'm assuming it's an acceptable source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ottawa-shooting-anniversary-muslims-1.3282199 The idea that the Ottawa terrorist wasn't motivated by Islam at all but was simply mentally ill. The term Lone Wolf is used to imply they aren't part of a greater problem. Nothing in that link supports your premise at all. Fact is, those attacks were isolated incidents in the sense that they weren't actually affiliated with ISIL. However I don't see anyone denying that they were inspired or motivated by their beliefs. The idea of this thread that it's an issue that needs to be dealt with. 2 separate incidents seem to indicate that this is now a great problem that needs to be addressed. And you think it's NBD and we can ignore such incidents? Edited November 19, 2015 by Black Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 "Impartial journalists"/ Like who? The writers for the major newspapers and media outlets in the world - From the NY Times to Al Jazeera. I also tend to favor the views of those who have spent time in that region like Christiane Amanpour from CNN: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiane_Amanpour and Eric Margolis: http://ericmargolis.com/ to name a couple. I find I receive more substantiated information from those sources than from anonymous public access opinion boards. Who are your sources? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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