This week in Islam

[taxme]

10 hours ago, ?Impact said:

White nationalists? That sounds like a nice name. I would say what they really are, but then the strong arm of the moderators would step in.

Ya, and those words would be nasty alright. Nasty words that would only be used by those so-called tolerant and non-violent peaceful loving liberals, eh?  

[taxme]

23 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

I get that, but that is now how the optics work on a good deal of people. Still blaming everyone in a specific group for a small few ruining things for them. But if those extreme elements are not called out by the rest , then it's about as good as accepting whatever the leaders/government does on our behalf.  The responsibility we have is to keep the government in check. So collectively we are still responsible for having a bad shit government that does bad shit and makes us look like bad shits.

Has Canada ever had a good shit government? Just wondering. Of course the Trudeau family has always shown us as to how a bad shit government can work, and how to go about ruining a great WASP country and put it into the dumpster not that the liberal conservatives were/are much better. Harper was given the chance to get rid of Trudeauism but he refused to do so. 

Government "IS" the problem, never the solution.  

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

So collectively we are still responsible for having a bad shit government that does bad shit and makes us look like bad shits.

There is no way that a vote for a different party can do anything, since Canada's obligations to the UN are legal and binding. Also since the matter we're talking about really hinges on superpower nations seeking global hegemony, there is no Canadian candidate that COULD remove Canada from participation in these matters, without very serious repercussions. I'm not excusing that but trying to show that the problem is the whole "system", at an international level where Canada is a minor player.

Nor do we have referendums to ask voters the question, whether or not Canada should participate in a war. Which is probably a good thing, the average Joe Bob has little to no idea about the background issues to make an informed decision. We can only put our trust in the leadership that they will know all the details and make a righteous call. So as a voter I cannot accept responsibility for that which I have absolutely no control over.

Edited December 1, 2017 by OftenWrong
clarity, clarity, clarity

[eyeball]

On 11/29/2017 at 5:24 PM, OftenWrong said:

I think you are half right, and half wrong, same as me. If I recall correctly, Gulf War II (Iraq) did not receive UN sanction. That is why Chretien chose not to commit Canadian troops (although there was to my understanding some very limited Canadian involvement). Afghan war was UN approved, placing specific legal obligations upon Canada.

Canada should have placed economic and diplomatic sanctions against the assholes who invaded Iraq.

Those sanctions should still be in place.

THAT is how Canada can make an impact in the world. There is nothing limiting our capacity or ability to be a moral force for good in the world. And lest we forget before you start whining about harming our economy...our grandparents sacrificed some 25% of our countries GDP in our struggle against tyranny.

Looking around the world today I suppose you could argue that our grandparents sacrifices were a complete waste of our countries resources but I guess that's just how you roll.

[eyeball]

21 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

We can only put our trust in the leadership that they will know all the details and make a righteous call. So as a voter I cannot accept responsibility for that which I have absolutely no control over.

Funny how we still have to accept the consequences of not being in control.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Canada should have placed economic and diplomatic sanctions against the assholes who invaded Iraq.

Those sanctions should still be in place.

THAT is how Canada can make an impact in the world. There is nothing limiting our capacity or ability to be a moral force for good in the world. And lest we forget before you start whining about harming our economy...our grandparents sacrificed some 25% of our countries GDP in our struggle against tyranny.

Looking around the world today I suppose you could argue that our grandparents sacrifices were a complete waste of our countries resources but I guess that's just how you roll.

Canada invoking sanctions against an economic superpower would be pointless and self defeating. Canada does not have enough economic clout to make a difference with sanctions. And I do not whine. You mentioned that it would harm our economy, proving what I just said. You have neutered your own argument.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Canada invoking sanctions against an economic superpower would be pointless and self defeating. Canada does not have enough economic clout to make a difference with sanctions. And I do not whine. You mentioned that it would harm our economy, proving what I just said. You have neutered your own argument.

No you're just a coward that doesn't like the argument. I'm fully aware of the economic harm it would cause but as the history of our grandparents has shown us we can handle the hit.

As for you whining I expect you'd cry like a baby and kick up a huge fuss at how hard it is to live up to our principles. 

[OftenWrong]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No you're just a coward that doesn't like the argument. I'm fully aware of the economic harm it would cause but as the history of our grandparents has shown us we can handle the hit.

As for you whining I expect you'd cry like a baby and kick up a huge fuss at how hard it is to live up to our principles. 

I see you're in a bad mood again and looking for an excuse to hurl insults. Sorry, I don't debate that way. 

[Argus]

This week in Islam featured a report from Barbara Kay on what happens when large groups of immigrants arrive with medieval and backward cultural views - what happens to natives, that is, or in this particular case, Jews.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/barbara-kay-germany-was-determined-to-expunge-dangerous-anti-semitism-now-its-back

[Argus]

This week in Islam a young woman who dared to show her face in public has been sentenced to two years in prison in Iran for 'encouraging moral corruption'. She took off her veil in a protest. Gasp!   What a slut!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43329896

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Argus

[Argus]

This week in Islam we have the new and invigorating Islamic love of family showing its face in Indonesia, where not one, but two crazy Muslim families blew themselves up for the glory of Allah.

Nothing says togetherness like taking your kids to your suicide bombing so they get to see the afterlife too! Does... that mean little girls are gifted with virgins after they die? Wouldn't that be kind of confusing for them?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44105279

And such family love of Allah isn't limited to Muslim countries. The same happens in the UK, where several members of a 'british' family are on trial for planning various terrorist offenses, planing to blow up people at the British museum or go on stabbing sprees. Ahhh, family togetherness. It's something Islam encourages, you know!

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44109760

Edited May 14, 2018 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

56 minutes ago, Argus said:

This week in Islam we have the new and invigorating Islamic love ...

Is this a rule for how you tar a billion people based on the actions of one or two ?  Would that you could find it in your heart to do that for the Hells Angels....

[Argus]

57 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Is this a rule for how you tar a billion people based on the actions of one or two ?  Would that you could find it in your heart to do that for the Hells Angels....

I called for the Hells Angels to all be rounded up and given a 22 behind the ear. Do you consider that love? If so you're a pretty weird guy.

The actions of one or two?  This is not, despite the desperate efforts of progressives to pretend otherwise, an isolated thing. This is what you all refuse to acknowledge. Violent religious attacks on behalf of Islam happen many thousands of times a year because Islam is a violently intolerant religion which is filled with contempt and hatred for unbelievers and calls for death for almost anything which goes against its restrictive beliefs. 

 

 

 

[Argus]

Why is the Muslim world so relentlessly violent? And why does it keep spilling out into our laps through the Muslims who have come to live in the West? One author argues it's a very basic problem. All three of the world's great monotheistic religions started out horribly violent in how it preached salvation and intolerence. Death to unbelievers was a universal concept. But that's only really true of Islam today. This author seems to think he knows the answer.

The reason, I argue in The Moral Arc, is the Judaism and Christianity went through the Enlightenment and came out the other side less violent and more tolerant. Ever since the Enlightenment the study of morality has shifted from considering moral principles as based on God-given, Divinely-inspired, Holy book-derived, Authority-dictated precepts from the top down, to bottom-up individual-considered, reason-based, rationality-constructed, science-grounded propositions in which one is expected to have reasons for one’s moral actions, especially reasons that consider the other person affected by the moral act.

The Enlightenment secular values that we hold dear today—equal treatment under the law, equal opportunity for all, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, civil rights and civil liberties for everyone, the equality of women and minorities, and especially the separation of church and state and the freedom to practice any religion or no religion at all—were inculcated into the minds of Jews and Christians (and others) in the West, but not so much in Muslim countries, particularly those who would prefer a return to the medieval barbarism of theocracies. Until we can take an honest look at the problem and stop accusing people of “Islamophobia” who are courageous enough to say what almost everyone else is thinking, the problem will not go away on its own.

https://moralarc.org/why-islam-of-the-three-great-monotheistic-religions-one-did-not-go-through-enlightenment/

[Argus]

Time magazine did an interview with one of Indonesia's most influential Islamic scholars not long ago, about the roots of Islamic violence. He has no time for western politicians who refuse to acknowledge the link between Islam and terrorism.

Many Western politicians and intellectuals say that Islamist terrorism has nothing to do with Islam. What is your view?

Western politicians should stop pretending that extremism and terrorism have nothing to do with Islam. There is a clear relationship between fundamentalism, terrorism, and the basic assumptions of Islamic orthodoxy. So long as we lack consensus regarding this matter, we cannot gain victory over fundamentalist violence within Islam.

Radical Islamic movements are nothing new. They’ve appeared again and again throughout our own history in Indonesia. The West must stop ascribing any and all discussion of these issues to “Islamophobia.” Or do people want to accuse me — an Islamic scholar — of being an Islamophobe too?

What basic assumptions within traditional Islam are problematic?

The relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims, the relationship of Muslims with the state, and Muslims’ relationship to the prevailing legal system wherever they live … Within the classical tradition, the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims is assumed to be one of segregation and enmity.

Perhaps there were reasons for this during the Middle Ages, when the tenets of Islamic orthodoxy were established, but in today’s world such a doctrine is unreasonable. To the extent that Muslims adhere to this view of Islam, it renders them incapable of living harmoniously and peacefully within the multi-cultural, multi-religious societies of the 21st century.

http://time.com/4930742/islam-terrorism-islamophobia-violence/

Edited May 14, 2018 by Argus

[betsy]

Family blowing up together - including their own children.   That's something new in the Islam world of Indonesia. 

Just like the knifing, and the van attack - I suppose, that too, will be coming our way.

[Goddess]

http://www.euronews.com/2018/04/26/islam-party-stirs-controversy-ahead-of-belgian-elections

 

 

Quote

 

Amid Europe's turbulent political landscape, a party - whose aim is to create an Islamic State - is hoping to win seats in Belgium's October municipal elections.

The Islam Party got two members elected in 2012, including one in the Molenbeek area of Brussels.

This year, it will stand in 28 municipalities in all.

Among its policies: it wants to separate men and women on public transport.

The Islam Party - which also wants to bring in Sharia law - is focusing its efforts on conservative Muslims.

 

Belgium will get its one chance to fight back against this in the next election.  But the article points out there are 780,000 Muslims in Belgium.

This article adds some detail

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12203/belgium-islamic-state

Quote

 

According to the French magazine Causeur, "the program is confusingly simple: replace all the civil and penal codes with sharia law. Period". Created on the eve of the 2012 municipal ballot, the ISLAM Party immediately received impressive results. Its numbers are alarming.

The French weekly magazine Le Point details the plans of the ISLAM Party: It would like to "prevent vice by banning gaming establishments (casinos, gaming halls and betting agencies) and the lottery". Along with authorizing the wearing the Muslim headscarf at school and an agreement about the Islamic religious holidays, the party wants all schools in Belgium to offer halal meat on their school menus. Redouane Ahrouch, one of the party's three founders, also proposed segregating men and women on public transport. Ahrouch belonged in the 1990s to the Belgian Islamic Center, a nest of Islamic fundamentalism where candidates for jihad in Afghanistan and Iraq were recruited.

The ISLAM Party knows that demography is on its side. Ahrouch has said, "in 12 years, Brussels will principally be composed of Muslims". In the upcoming Belgian elections, the ISLAM Party is now set to run candidates in 28 municipalities. On first glance, that looks like a derisory proportion compared to 589 Belgian municipalities, but it demonstrates the progress and ambitions of this new party. In Brussels, the party will be represented on 14 lists out of a possible 19.

 

 

 

Quote

Perhaps it is time for sleepy Belgium to begin to wake up?

Perhaps its time for the world to wake up.  The empty platitudes about how Islam is no threat to the West and that Muslims do not want to bring religious extremism to other countries is nothing but lies - I doubt it's the Belgium people who are supporting this party and leading its rise to power - so who is?

[Argus]

The kinds of things which make sense but which we're not allowed to say.

[Michael Hardner]

10 minutes ago, Argus said:

The kinds of things which make sense but which we're not allowed to say.

You're not allowed to foment hate.  We have hate laws for that.  How else are you being infringed on then ?

[Argus]

25 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You're not allowed to foment hate.  We have hate laws for that.  How else are you being infringed on then ?

You know very well that any disapproval of almost anything about Islam gets you labelled. We have calls for the resignation of a PC candidate in the upcoming election because of a couple of mild tweets she made a few years go about the idea of women in niquabs being teachers to young children. The literati are aghast and already calling her a racist and islamophobe, but most people will agree with her. 

[eyeball]

18 minutes ago, Argus said:

You know very well that any disapproval of almost anything about Islam gets you labelled.

No, its usually something fairly particular that earns you that. For example...

Quote

 

...Condell said in the video that Islam is "a religion of war", that "Muslim women in Britain who cover their faces are mentally ill", though in some parts of the world women have no choice but to cover their face, as they are "governed...by primitive pigs whose only achievement in life is to be born with a penis in one hand and a Qur'an in the other". Commissioner Elliot Cohen described Condell's comments as "insulting, degenerating and racist".[61]

Wiki.

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

30 minutes ago, Argus said:

1) You know very well that any disapproval of almost anything about Islam gets you labelled.

2) The literati are aghast and already calling her a racist and islamophobe, but most people will agree with her. 

1) 'Labelling' is something that happens in life.  There are no training wheels to protect you if you have an opinion that people don't like.

2) Again, she has an opinion so she should live with what people think of it.  That is how a public works.

[Argus]

28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) 'Labelling' is something that happens in life.  There are no training wheels to protect you if you have an opinion that people don't like.

2) Again, she has an opinion so she should live with what people think of it.  That is how a public works.

In this case there is a vast gulf in the culture/response of the political/media class and the public.

[RogerBao]

Egypt's Ex- Muslim Atheist Has Gone Missing. Is the Gov Using his Twitter Account?

Sherif Gaber is an Egyptian blogger and activist who is well known for his views on atheism. After previous arrests and problems with the Egyptian authorities in 2013 and 2015, his whereabouts are now unknown. On May the 7th, Gaber tweeted that he is “4 days in hell. I'm free. Okay. In Egypt.” The way this tweet is written suggests that it may have been the Egyptian government taking over his twitter account.

 

[RogerBao]

One of Sherif Gaber's video (with translation) ;-

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by RogerBao