This week in Islam

[kimmy]

In Nigeria, Islamic extremists have kidnapped hundreds of school girls.

Apparently some of the girls are being taken into neighboring countries as brides for extremists. Others might end up becoming sex slaves as per Muslim tradition:

Boko Haram leader Abubakar Shekau first threatened to treat captured women and girls as slaves in a video released in May 2013.

It fuelled concern at the time that the group is adhering to the ancient Islamic belief that women captured during war are slaves with whom their "masters" can have sex, correspondents say.

Meanwhile in Syria, Islamists are crucifying people.

Two men were reportedly crucified in Raqqa on Tuesday, their bloody corpses displayed in the center of a town controlled by the most severe of Syria’s Islamist factions.

Among the forms of slaughter that have become commonplace in Syria’s civil war, crucifixion may be no more brutal than barrel bombs or sarin gas attacks. But the revival of an ancient form of torture is one sign of what life is like under the rule of one of Syria’s powerful Islamist factions. And it’s an indication that, despite years of public hand-wringing in the West over Syria’s bloody and rapid decline, the country is continuing to plummet into new depths of the abyss.

And I know that there are people who'll say "yeah, well, Christians did the same kind of stuff in the dark ages, and Islam started 600 years behind Christianity, so they just need a little more time."

But you know, hundreds of years ago when Christian cultures were discovering how to be human, they didn't have the benefit of learning from a global community of more enlightened neighbors. They were figuring it out from scratch.

These dummies, on the other hand, stand on an island surrounded by more enlightened people, and shut their eyes to it. Worse, some of these countries, like Syria and Iran and Afghanistan, are places where more modern ideas used to be embraced, and Islamists said "these ideas of treating women and minorities like humans suck. We should go back to the old ways."

I honestly find it infuriating.

-k

[waldo]

shouldn't the thread title be changed to reflect something along the lines of "This week in Islamic extremism"? Just sayin.

[Moonlight Graham]

Islamists are nuts. A terrible ideology. Teach Islamism to some crazy Nigerians and you get an extra level of crazy..

Btw, great tag for this thread Kimmy lol.

I'm also with Waldo.

[bush_cheney2004]

Gee, why can't they be more civilized like Canadian or American "Islamists"....killing NATO soldiers and civilians in Afghanistan, blowing up installations in Algeria or Mali, or attempting to blow up airports in California !

Edited May 1, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[Mighty AC]

shouldn't the thread title be changed to reflect something along the lines of "This week in Islamic extremism"? Just sayin.

When several entire nations subjugate half their population due to laws based on this religion, I'd say we can safely leave out the word "extremists." In my opinion, it is better to combat horrific ideas regardless of their origin. Ideas are ideas, belief systems do not deserve extra protection or respect.

[waldo]

a 'possible' definition of "Islamist", with qualification attached, drawing appropriate distinctions:

"An advocate or supporter of a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam. Do not use as a synonym for Islamic fighters, militants, extremists or radicals, who may or may not be Islamists.

"Where possible, be specific and use the name of militant affiliations: al-Qaida-linked, Hezbollah, Taliban, etc. Those who view the Quran as a political model encompass a wide range of Muslims, from mainstream politicians to militants known as jihadi."

[Guest]

The thread's called "This week in Islam". It doesn't just have to be about the stuff Kimmy posted. Someone could post that article about the guy who gave the homeless guy his shoes and socks.

That should even it up

Edited May 1, 2014 by bcsapper

[waldo]

The thread's called "This week in Islam". It doesn't just have to be about the stuff Kimmy posted. Someone could post that article about the guy who gave the homeless guy his shoes and socks.

That should even it up

gee, I always thought a thread title reflected upon the OP content - go figure!

[Guest]

Just trying to think outside the box. Broaden a few horizons. Widen a few perspectives.

You know.

Or maybe I just thought it was funny. Sorry...

[dre]

And I know that there are people who'll say "yeah, well, Christians did the same kind of stuff in the dark ages, and Islam started 600 years behind Christianity, so they just need a little more time."

Never mind the dark ages... what about now? Western and predominantly Christian nations are huge sponsors and consumers of human trafficking, the global sex trade etc. Hundreds of thousands of women are sold or kidnapped into sexual slavery in places like Canada, the US, Mexico, Europe, etc... every single year.

[Bonam]

Never mind the dark ages... what about now? Western and predominantly Christian nations are huge sponsors and consumers of human trafficking, the global sex trade etc. Hundreds of thousands of women are sold or kidnapped into sexual slavery in places like Canada, the US, Mexico, Europe, etc... every single year.

Barring the fact that your number is not at all believable (if your number was right something like 1% of all women in Western countries would be kidnapped/sold sex slaves, which is clearly not the case), the key difference is one of law... in Canada, US, Europe, etc, this practice is illegal, unacceptable, and unambiguously condemned by the vast majority of the population. So even if some criminals do it, it is clearly not the cultural norm. On the other hand, in the countries under discussion, the treatment of women as property is often the norm. And this stems to a large degree from their culture and religion.

[bleeding heart]

It is an unbelievable horror. There are plenty of monstrous acts occurring all the time, but there's just something so viscerally awful about this story--the mixture of cruelty, of oppression, of fanaticism coupled contradictorily with gangsterism and profit. It's an unbearable act.

[bleeding heart]

The mothers and relatives of the kidnapped girls speak:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/rescue-them-mothers-of-abducted-schoolgirls-tell-nigerian-government-9308318.html

Also a few related bits: the same group is alleged to be responsible for at least 88 murders of girls and boys in the past year. Also, this is not the first such occurrence: the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda (a similarly ugly group of cruel religious fanatics) kidnapped 140 girls in '96, though many were rescued later.

[Shady]

Never mind the dark ages... what about now? Western and predominantly Christian nations are huge sponsors and consumers of human trafficking, the global sex trade etc. Hundreds of thousands of women are sold or kidnapped into sexual slavery in places like Canada, the US, Mexico, Europe, etc... every single year.

It's humorous to watch you pretend that the problems are equal. Regardless, this is a thread about Islam. Start your own thread.

[GostHacked]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/human-traffickers-going-unpunished-in-canada-experts-say-1.2584944

Guess where a good deal of the prostitutes/escorts and strippers come from? Criminal exploitation.

But this is about radical Islam and not Islam itself. Like when we talk about fundie Christians which are not representative of Christianity on the whole. Also, which sub-sect of Islam would this really be referring to? A Sunni issue? A Shiite issue? Only in Africa, or is this abroad?

I'd change the title to 'This week in Radical Islam' as proposed.

[Argus]

a 'possible' definition of "Islamist", with qualification attached, drawing appropriate distinctions:

"An advocate or supporter of a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam.

Would that not qualify the majority of Muslims in the world as Islamists?

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

Edited May 2, 2014 by Argus

[Argus]

Never mind the dark ages... what about now? Western and predominantly Christian nations are huge sponsors and consumers of human trafficking, the global sex trade etc. Hundreds of thousands of women are sold or kidnapped into sexual slavery in places like Canada, the US, Mexico, Europe, etc... every single year.

Sexual slavery and abuse takes place across the world, including in Muslim countries. It's endemic in India and southeast Asia, and certainly among the millions brought to the Gulf Coast states as servants. Your attempt to defend the Muslim world by deflecting the conversation is a tired old thing among the Left, who can't bear the thought of any criticism of their beloved Islam or the mostly 'brown people' who practice it.

And while trafficking exists in the west it does so despite steady and determined efforts on the part of the government to eradicate it. THere is no such determination in the Muslim world, where police and courts are notoriously corrupt and the elites could not possibly care less about what happens to those at the bottom of their pile.

Came across this a short time ago. The resurgence of an almost medieval style of slavery in Egypt, with little interest by the government in doing anything about it.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/04/14/geoffrey-clarfield-the-slaves-of-sinai/

[WestCoastRunner]

These girls are being sold for 12.00 each. How pathetic.

[Guest]

These girls are being sold for 12.00 each. How pathetic.

There's probably a good answer to this, but why doesn't the government negotiate their release for that amount. I'm generally against ransom paying, but I'd make an exception to send ~200 schoolgirls home to their families at $12/girl.

[WestCoastRunner]

There's probably a good answer to this, but why doesn't the government negotiate their release for that amount. I'm generally against ransom paying, but I'd make an exception to send ~200 schoolgirls home to their families at $12/girl.

Well, absolutely. Where is the govt?

[dre]

It's humorous to watch you pretend that the problems are equal. Regardless, this is a thread about Islam. Start your own thread.

I never said they were equal. I said this happens all over the world, and nobody here has done a single thing to bolster the underlying suggestion that its worse in muslim countries. The worst countries in the world are China, Russia, and Uzbekistan, Thialand and Brasil. Im not saying this isnt terrible it is... But most of you are just using it as an excuse to attack your favorite boogeyman. Muslims.

Im not defending islam Im attacking the ability of you guys to form coherent thoughts, and employ basic elementary school level logic.

[bleeding heart]

Now that you mention it, in the piece I linked to, there was a bit about a similar kidnapping of girls several years back by a Christian organization in Uganda.

Just for the edification of those who like to say "Show me where Christians in this day and age behave as abominably as the Islamists!"

[Michael Hardner]

The most recent poll I could find on Canadian Muslim attitudes:

http://www.muslimlink.ca/in-focus/in-focus/environics-study-what-do-muslim-canadians-want

With respect to ideology, fully 80% of the Muslim Canadians polled identify as moderates.

The role of women is the most sensitive barometer of a culture’s inclusivity. Most of the Canadian Muslims polled (72%) are unconcerned about Muslim women taking on expanded roles. When it comes to the headscarf, Environics pollsters found that nearly 60 % of Muslim women eschew the covering, while only a negligible proportion wore niqab (face veil). Notwithstanding this, 86% of those Muslims feel that banning the hijab is unwise while only 55 % of the general public feels the same way

[Argus]

The most recent poll I could find on Canadian Muslim attitudes:

http://www.muslimlink.ca/in-focus/in-focus/environics-study-what-do-muslim-canadians-want

Sure, I've said before that, by and large, Canadian Muslims are less extremist than world Muslims. Mind you, that's still a two-edged sword. As your cite says 82% were unsympathetic to the "Toronto 18" but that still suggests 18% WERE sympathetic, which is troublng.

However, in the context of the statement about "Islamists" constituting only a tiny percentage of world Muslims, we can see from the Pew Research cite that in fact, the overwhelming majority of world Muslims want Islamic law, which, given its brutal penalties for adultery, homosexuality, etc. etc. can hardly be deemed 'moderate' by our standards. Or if this is what a Muslim moderate looks like in the world then maybe we can safely describe the majority of Muslims as "extremists". We would certainly describe any Christian who felt that the hands of thieves should be cut off as an extremist.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

Sure, I've said before that, by and large, Canadian Muslims are less extremist than world Muslims. Mind you, that's still a two-edged sword. As your cite says 82% were unsympathetic to the "Toronto 18" but that still suggests 18% WERE sympathetic, which is troublng.

Only if you compare it to other religions and find out what things they believe. Also what does 'sympathetic' mean. That said, yes that number is higher than anybody should feel comfortable with anyway.

We would certainly describe any Christian who felt that the hands of thieves should be cut off as an extremist.

Where would find such a Christian ? In some illiterate backwater where there is no education, torn apart by war and violence perhaps ?