Army Guy Posted June 27, 2025 Report Posted June 27, 2025 3 hours ago, August1991 said: Strongly disagree. For centuries, we Canadians get along. And Europeans got along between 1815 - 1914. you can disagree all you want History does not lie my friend, Canadians do not get along...from the plains of Abraham to the draft in WWI, and WWII, french and english have been fighting everyday since in some form or another....today ROC does not care what Quebec does....to them they have already separated, and no one really cares...and separation talk has spread onto the west...except BC they don't really want to have anything to do with the ROC either, no pipelines,ferries built in china,ya sounds like the are pro Canada...I'm wondering when the other western provinces start boycotting BC projects...i guess having an energy corridor was to much of an idea, for a nation that can not get anything of any importance done... Europeans have wrote volumes of books all about their conflicts...like i said they wrote the book on how NOT to get along.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted June 27, 2025 Report Posted June 27, 2025 6 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Americans are sick of paying the bulk of the bills. Meh...get back to me when America finally gets sick of having propped up so many dictators and warlords around the world. They have some nerve whining about burden sharing now. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
August1991 Posted June 27, 2025 Report Posted June 27, 2025 13 minutes ago, Army Guy said: you can disagree all you want History does not lie my friend, Canadians do not get along...from the plains of Abraham to the draft in WWI, and WWII, french and english have been fighting everyday since in some form or another.... ... Disagree? True. But we did not kill each other in a Civil War. For several centuries, unlike Europeans and our southern neighbours, we get along. Quote
August1991 Posted June 27, 2025 Report Posted June 27, 2025 Survival? Get along? What's the difference? To be honest, I'm still struggling with the difference between competition and ambition. ===== Some people are ambitious, others competitive. Some people simply want to get along. Quote
CdnFox Posted June 27, 2025 Report Posted June 27, 2025 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: Again why would our PM sign onto the document agreeing to make those lofty goals if it had no intention of making those payments....i mean our international reputation is already in the dumpster, and we have proven time and time again we are unreliable allied,that does pull it's weight, and to top all of that off, Carney just signed on to a EU defensive pact, which will cost more ....not only is it a promise to NATO that YES we are a trusted allied, but he also promised Canadians that he will follow through, we have sat on the side lines to long now........Don't like it run for office and change it...just don't do it as a NDP candidate you'll be disappointed... Actually it is not trump's country club, the US is tired of paying most of the bills and this new amendment has been approved by ALL NATO countries, and we signed on to it.....with exception of Spain which gets a discount.... If the US takes it ball and goes home who is going to fill the massive cracks in NATO...Americans are sick of paying the bulk of the bills and Americans would love to have some of our social programs we enjoy here in Canada...but can't....time for Canada to step up and take its place on the world stage....or STFU forever. This was precisely my point. Making goals that we absolutely are not going to be able to achieve damages us even if it helps carney in the short term. It would have been a million percent better to make an HONEST statement and say "we can achieve THIS much in that timeline, and then we will strive to do more later, but unfortunately we just can't get to 5 percent in the next few years. Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
gatomontes99 Posted June 27, 2025 Report Posted June 27, 2025 On 6/9/2025 at 5:19 PM, herbie said: He also pointed out that this is not due to NATO pressure, it is due on the fact that the USA is no longer a dependable military ally. Lmao...right. This reminds me of when I come home and tell my wife to get on her knees and she does. But she then tells me she didnt do it because I told her to. She did it because she wanted. And I just reply with "I know baby girl, I know." 2 Quote Don't you think that if I were wrong that I would know it?
Venandi Posted June 27, 2025 Report Posted June 27, 2025 (edited) 6 hours ago, CdnFox said: ...unfortunately we just can't get to 5 percent in the next few years. Just my opinion and admittedly I'm a bit out of touch now, but attrition (largely in the form of experienced folks) has now reached a point where regeneration will be difficult, costly and time consuming. I'm not even sure it can be done without a complete pause in operational tempo and it will take years to grow back what's been carelessly squandered. We're actually losing recruits due to extended training delays now and DEI issues remain a problem as it skews recruiting priorities to non standard streams that aren't based on fitness and competence. That's a bigger problem than people might think because the pool of top candidates who are ready, willing, and able is small and it comes from the traditional supply stream whether Herb likes it or not. By prioritizing outside that stream you end up losing top candidates to such things as policing and firefighting who are every bit a hungry as the military... they're better at intake and training too. If the budget suddenly went to 5% of GDP I'm not convinced the military could even spend it wisely now. By way of example I think manning the new UAVs and P8s will prove very challenging for the RCAF. Recruiting, retention, and operational tempo is a three legged stool that requires constant monitoring... we didn't do that. Not only did we unbalance the legs of the stool, we got rid of all the carpenters who could fix it. So yes, you can use the new budget to buy more stools but there's not enough butts to sit on them and most of the butts currently available are too fat anyway. Sometimes you reach a point where the money to buy stools isn't the issue or even the problem... I think that's where we are now. Edited June 27, 2025 by Venandi 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted June 27, 2025 Report Posted June 27, 2025 14 hours ago, CdnFox said: This was precisely my point. Making goals that we absolutely are not going to be able to achieve damages us even if it helps carney in the short term. It would have been a million percent better to make an HONEST statement and say "we can achieve THIS much in that timeline, and then we will strive to do more later, but unfortunately we just can't get to 5 percent in the next few years. I personally think all the goals we laid out when signing the new NATO membership goals are very achievable...So where does the money come from, by looking at each line item on our expenditure sheet and asking do we really need that...look at foreign aid it has surpassed 29 bil, how about how much we pay each refugee comes out to 82 k, when the average Canadian makes 62 k there are plenty of line items like this one that could be cut.... Just saying we can't make it to that number without trying is where Canada is today, throwing up their arms giving up with out any effort .......We have been living high on peace bonds for 40 plus years....now it is time to invest. Europe is preparing for war with the Russians, they are looking at mandatory service, investing trillions into their militaries....and these countries are the UK, France, Germany, Poland, to name a few... NATO is waiting for our statement we need more time, etc....they know it is coming it's not that we have a historical record of doing so....oh wait a minute....It is embarrassing we as a nation can not even defend ourselves against any threat, and most Canadians are good with that... No one is expecting everyone to hit that time line by 2029, thats when it will be reviewed ...2035 was the original date to reach that target which should be an easy task considering 1.5 % On infrastructure which we already have a long list of projects that could fill those specs, and be written off as Military spending... I have to agree with Venandi assessment, without changing procurement and recruitment policies and practices, we are not going to be able to spend any more money, we can't spend what they have now and for decades Military has returned bils back into coffers....or wasted bils on spending money just to get rid of it before end year....... New leadership is required all up and down the chain of command...., DEI needs to be buried deep in the woods someplace, major change in culture "again"...to produce warriors, not inclusive Canadians that have long pink hair, not sure of their genders, and are 250 lbs... kick those people out send them to customs or coast guard, fisheries etc......and hire warriors, A type personalities who are not afraid of a few curse words, and whom are proud to serve this country.... Canadians need to support their military, ALL the time, .by ensuring we equip them with the latest and greatest equipment and training available...without that support there is no need to have a military, hard to support a population that is ungrateful, or unwilling to support...major attitude change is required for the public... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted June 27, 2025 Report Posted June 27, 2025 17 hours ago, August1991 said: Disagree? True. But we did not kill each other in a Civil War. For several centuries, unlike Europeans and our southern neighbours, we get along. You should do some more reading of your history, how many were killed during the conscription riots...how many were hunted down during the louis Riel....there is a lot more, Canada's hands are not blood free as you suggest....so while we did not have a civil war....we definitely know how to spill blood.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted June 27, 2025 Report Posted June 27, 2025 17 hours ago, eyeball said: Meh...get back to me when America finally gets sick of having propped up so many dictators and warlords around the world. They have some nerve whining about burden sharing now. You don't think Canada has not done any of that...just look at haiti ya that was all Canada...don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house... They have valid points, while you and most Canadians arm chair from your basements, the US police the world so you can sleep at night...and finally the US has a president that does not mind speaking his mind in a more forward tone with more base in his voice than your use to....So know everyone is recovering from the kick in the nuts and look at us go....signed new NATO accords, even signed a new Euro defensive pact....the bills have not even come in yet...but give it a bit...it is not stopping here... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted June 27, 2025 Report Posted June 27, 2025 (edited) On 6/14/2025 at 5:25 PM, herbie said: BTW kick, squeal and gripe all you want. Charlie Angus agrees with me 100%. It's over. who's charlie angus, is he on CNN....is he in the green party.... Edited June 27, 2025 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
CdnFox Posted June 28, 2025 Report Posted June 28, 2025 4 hours ago, Army Guy said: I personally think all the goals we laid out when signing the new NATO membership goals are very achievable...So where does the money come from, by looking at each line item on our expenditure sheet and asking do we really need that...look at foreign aid it has surpassed 29 bil, how about how much we pay each refugee comes out to 82 k, when the average Canadian makes 62 k there are plenty of line items like this one that could be cut.... Dude, we are currenty 70 - 100 billion in the red, and now we're talking about at least another 100 billion dollars we'd have to come up with. There is no where that we can cut THAT much without cutting into core services like medical and such. There just isn't. It would be like me telling you to invade russia with just 10 men and some surplus lee enfields and saying 'Well you'll just have to look for ways to just fight harder!" There's only so far that can go Over time it's a bit of a different story, you can look for ways to improve service through automation, so we have less employees etc etc but you're not going to get enough savings there in this deacade. Maybe by the end of the next one. You just can't make problems go away by saying "spit n grit". And we can't keep borrowing insane amounts of money every year or the country will crash. 4 hours ago, Army Guy said: Just saying we can't make it to that number without trying is where Canada is today, throwing up their arms giving up with out any effort ... NO! No what got us here was having either no plan or bullshit plans. What we need is to have REAL plans and achievable goals and a clear path, and that's exactly what this DOES NOT give us. 4 hours ago, Army Guy said: NATO is waiting for our statement we need more time, etc....they know it is coming it's not that we have a historical record of doing so....oh wait a minute....It is embarrassing we as a nation can not even defend ourselves against any threat, and most Canadians are good with that... ANd you're walking down a path to more of that. Which is why i said it would be better to set achievable goals and hit Them. Our allies will respect us more for setting a realisiic goal and hitting it rather than blowing smoke up their ass and doing nothing which is what's going to happen. 4 hours ago, Army Guy said: No one is expecting everyone to hit that time line by 2029, thats when it will be reviewed ...2035 was the original date to reach that target which should be an easy task considering 1.5 % On infrastructure which we already have a long list of projects that could fill those specs, and be written off as Military spending... I have to agree with Venandi assessment, without changing procurement and recruitment policies and practices, we are not going to be able to spend any more money, we can't spend what they have now and for decades Military has returned bils back into coffers....or wasted bils on spending money just to get rid of it before end year....... New leadership is required all up and down the chain of command...., DEI needs to be buried deep in the woods someplace, major change in culture "again"...to produce warriors, not inclusive Canadians that have long pink hair, not sure of their genders, and are 250 lbs... kick those people out send them to customs or coast guard, fisheries etc......and hire warriors, A type personalities who are not afraid of a few curse words, and whom are proud to serve this country.... Canadians need to support their military, ALL the time, .by ensuring we equip them with the latest and greatest equipment and training available...without that support there is no need to have a military, hard to support a population that is ungrateful, or unwilling to support...major attitude change is required for the public... All that sounds great but it is 100 percent wrong. I get that you know a lot about the military. But i know politics and the finances of the country and bow to few men in that regard. Pretending it's "easy" and ignoring reality and letting the liberals off making promises it's not possible to keep is exactly how we got here and if the military types do that YET AGAIN, they deserve to have no equipment which is precisely what they'll get. For gods sake, this hasn't worked the last 10 times gov's promised it would, why on earth do you think it will now? Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
eyeball Posted June 28, 2025 Report Posted June 28, 2025 4 hours ago, Army Guy said: You don't think Canada has not done any of that...just look at haiti ya that was all Canada... ALL Canada? Not. Canada's role is debatable and at worst we were America's lackeys. Why do you think I didn't supported funding for Canada's military in the past? We were never more than Uncle Sam's sidekick - who's job was to mostly put a moral shine on whatever shit they stirred up. Were people still sticking Canadian flags on their luggage in those days or was the jig up by that point? 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted June 28, 2025 Report Posted June 28, 2025 4 hours ago, Army Guy said: They have valid points, while you and most Canadians arm chair from your basements, the US police the world so you can sleep at night.. I can't think of anything more damaging or dangerous than corrupt cops taking care of the world. 4 hours ago, Army Guy said: .and finally the US has a president that does not mind speaking his mind in a more forward tone with more base in his voice than your use to....So know everyone is recovering from the kick in the nuts and look at us go....signed new NATO accords, even signed a new Euro defensive pact....the bills have not even come in yet...but give it a bit...it is not stopping here... Are you suggesting the world is becoming a safer place? Throwing trillions at filling the world with more weapons is like deliberately increasing CO2 emissions. Oh...wait a minute...keep up the good work I guess. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
blackbird Posted June 28, 2025 Report Posted June 28, 2025 (edited) 22 hours ago, Army Guy said: History does not lie my friend, Canadians do not get along What can we expect when the LIberals/NDP are constantly trying to placate the natives and environmentalists. These two groups dominate the country and decide what resource projects they will allow. The Liberal left has caved in to FNs and given them UNDRIP and governments and companies must allow FNs to give their "informed consent to do anything". FNs will of course demand a big percentage of everything. They are only 5% of the population but you would think they are half of the population and claim they own most of the land. Edited June 28, 2025 by blackbird Quote
Army Guy Posted June 28, 2025 Report Posted June 28, 2025 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: Dude, we are currenty 70 - 100 billion in the red, and now we're talking about at least another 100 billion dollars we'd have to come up with. There is no where that we can cut THAT much without cutting into core services like medical and such. There just isn't. It would be like me telling you to invade russia with just 10 men and some surplus lee enfields and saying 'Well you'll just have to look for ways to just fight harder!" There's only so far that can go Over time it's a bit of a different story, you can look for ways to improve service through automation, so we have less employees etc etc but you're not going to get enough savings there in this deacade. Maybe by the end of the next one. You just can't make problems go away by saying "spit n grit". And we can't keep borrowing insane amounts of money every year or the country will crash. NO! No what got us here was having either no plan or bullshit plans. What we need is to have REAL plans and achievable goals and a clear path, and that's exactly what this DOES NOT give us. ANd you're walking down a path to more of that. Which is why i said it would be better to set achievable goals and hit Them. Our allies will respect us more for setting a realisiic goal and hitting it rather than blowing smoke up their ass and doing nothing which is what's going to happen. All that sounds great but it is 100 percent wrong. I get that you know a lot about the military. But i know politics and the finances of the country and bow to few men in that regard. Pretending it's "easy" and ignoring reality and letting the liberals off making promises it's not possible to keep is exactly how we got here and if the military types do that YET AGAIN, they deserve to have no equipment which is precisely what they'll get. For gods sake, this hasn't worked the last 10 times gov's promised it would, why on earth do you think it will now? When has the majority of Canadians said whoa, whoa to the government spending money...never, we just keep adding it to the deficit....so why now, why is invigorating our military a bad thing... Bullshit, we spend 29 bil just on foreign spending....there is a lot of pork fat that the liberals have put in the last 10 years that could come off, all without touching any critical social programs like health care....And Canada has been telling our military to do the exact thing for decades....do the impossible with nothing...your not going to find much sympathy here. How much time do you think your going to need, they have already given this nation 12 years to get to 2 % and now they are giving us 10 more to get to 3.5 %...besides we both know there is no way in hell Canada will make anything close to NATO's goals...not because it can't be done, but rather Canadians have no appetite for anything military....until conflict does happen then we has a nation will be balls deep in conflict and Canadians will pay that price one way or another...I know that all sounds like fantasy....but senior NATO members are preparing for war with Russia in 5 years....China has told the US it will take back Taiwan in less than 5 years.... Borrowing money is not the problem....do you see anyone jumping up and down today with their hair on fire...Carney is going to spend a record amount this year....and who is complaining....the answer is to cut or raise taxes...\ Your right there is no plan without a plan they are not going to spend the money.... can't just buy a bunch of equipment then store it in a warehouse.... i mean this country is screwed up, but to that point i don't think so...but once the ground work is done, it will move fairly quickly... Whoa, this is not my plan...this is the liberals plan, NATO's plan, this is the global plan...I just happen to agree with it... Our allieds don't respect us now...Canadians don't get that, they are in their own bubble, we have no reputation except being lagards...we have nothing of value to offer NATO....we are the only artic nation in NATO that can't operate in the artic all year round... we can't even man a full brigade in Latvia, most of the Canadian brigade is made up of foreigners... So not sure what reputation you want to save...apparently we are nice, and polite....we still have that... Well if you know politics and finances you'll know this is all a pipe dream...Canada does not have the parts or will to pull this off, i mean i spent 35 years in the service, hoping and dreaming of this very moment, our government s have never kept a promise or agreement why in the blue blazes would it start now...i mean there is always the MAYBE...and it is nice to have a dream....but we have a long history of never being ready for the next conflict...and it costs thousands of lives every time...but it is just people right we got lots of people... It is easy if you have the will....and this is not any fault of the military types in any way....., this is government, be it liberal of conservative...this is also Canadians fault...yes i put 1/2 the blame on them, there is an unwritten contract that canadians are suppose to have the military's back, to ensure the government does not abuse it's authority," not properly equipping them, providing the adequate training, thats abuse....making sure they are not wasted in some petty conflict is abuse...In time of conflict After the current serving members are gone, it is our sons and daughters that will be sent over and if thats with lee enfield s so be it, but lets not forget they "will" be going..... You seem to be of the opinion that this , is somehow the militaries fault...like somehow government does what we tell it to...like every other government organization we do as we are told to do, ..No one has a say in any military matters, not the equipment Canada purchases, not the quantity, not the budget , not where our government sends us, not the rules of engagements,nothing...we don't decide nothing...And while our lives depend on our government and the people of Canada, we still decide Nothing, so if the military gets nothing...which is why we are where we are today....One needs to stop asking why is our military in the shape it is today.........why would anyone want to join an organization that Canadians don't support...or care for it's members.... .....you as a voter can take away all the equipment, use up it's current inventory of soldiers, sailors and airmen...or outright cancel the military all together.....history shows the nation ( government at the time) does not give a f*ck and it will be you, or your sons and daughters that will fill those empty spaces, and be force to fight in equipment that some 3 rd world country said no to...and all around the country they will erect little plagues in the center of town or in some empty field in Ottawa with the names of the fallen...and the next conflict we will do it all over again... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
CdnFox Posted June 28, 2025 Report Posted June 28, 2025 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: When has the majority of Canadians said whoa, whoa to the government spending money...never, we just keep adding it to the deficit....so why now, why is invigorating our military a bad thing... Bullshit, we spend 29 bil just on foreign spending....there is a lot of pork fat that the liberals have put in the last 10 years that could come off, all without touching any critical social programs like health care....And Canada has been telling our military to do the exact thing for decades....do the impossible with nothing...your not going to find much sympathy here. How much time do you think your going to need, they have already given this nation 12 years to get to 2 % and now they are giving us 10 more to get to 3.5 %...besides we both know there is no way in hell Canada will make anything close to NATO's goals...not because it can't be done, but rather Canadians have no appetite for anything military....until conflict does happen then we has a nation will be balls deep in conflict and Canadians will pay that price one way or another...I know that all sounds like fantasy....but senior NATO members are preparing for war with Russia in 5 years....China has told the US it will take back Taiwan in less than 5 years.... Borrowing money is not the problem....do you see anyone jumping up and down today with their hair on fire...Carney is going to spend a record amount this year....and who is complaining....the answer is to cut or raise taxes...\ Your right there is no plan without a plan they are not going to spend the money.... can't just buy a bunch of equipment then store it in a warehouse.... i mean this country is screwed up, but to that point i don't think so...but once the ground work is done, it will move fairly quickly... Whoa, this is not my plan...this is the liberals plan, NATO's plan, this is the global plan...I just happen to agree with it... Our allieds don't respect us now...Canadians don't get that, they are in their own bubble, we have no reputation except being lagards...we have nothing of value to offer NATO....we are the only artic nation in NATO that can't operate in the artic all year round... we can't even man a full brigade in Latvia, most of the Canadian brigade is made up of foreigners... So not sure what reputation you want to save...apparently we are nice, and polite....we still have that... Well if you know politics and finances you'll know this is all a pipe dream...Canada does not have the parts or will to pull this off, i mean i spent 35 years in the service, hoping and dreaming of this very moment, our government s have never kept a promise or agreement why in the blue blazes would it start now...i mean there is always the MAYBE...and it is nice to have a dream....but we have a long history of never being ready for the next conflict...and it costs thousands of lives every time...but it is just people right we got lots of people... It is easy if you have the will....and this is not any fault of the military types in any way....., this is government, be it liberal of conservative...this is also Canadians fault...yes i put 1/2 the blame on them, there is an unwritten contract that canadians are suppose to have the military's back, to ensure the government does not abuse it's authority," not properly equipping them, providing the adequate training, thats abuse....making sure they are not wasted in some petty conflict is abuse...In time of conflict After the current serving members are gone, it is our sons and daughters that will be sent over and if thats with lee enfield s so be it, but lets not forget they "will" be going..... You seem to be of the opinion that this , is somehow the militaries fault...like somehow government does what we tell it to...like every other government organization we do as we are told to do, ..No one has a say in any military matters, not the equipment Canada purchases, not the quantity, not the budget , not where our government sends us, not the rules of engagements,nothing...we don't decide nothing...And while our lives depend on our government and the people of Canada, we still decide Nothing, so if the military gets nothing...which is why we are where we are today....One needs to stop asking why is our military in the shape it is today.........why would anyone want to join an organization that Canadians don't support...or care for it's members.... .....you as a voter can take away all the equipment, use up it's current inventory of soldiers, sailors and airmen...or outright cancel the military all together.....history shows the nation ( government at the time) does not give a f*ck and it will be you, or your sons and daughters that will fill those empty spaces, and be force to fight in equipment that some 3 rd world country said no to...and all around the country they will erect little plagues in the center of town or in some empty field in Ottawa with the names of the fallen...and the next conflict we will do it all over again... The majority of canadians have said "woah' to gov't spending MANY MANY TIMES. It was a big reason mulcroney got in. it was a huge reason chretien got in and was popular, numerous provincial gov'ts have been elected on a promise to balance the budget and numerous ones have been thrown out when they didn't (the infamous 'fudgit budget" in bc for example) In fact pundits were shocked that Justin Trudeau managed to get elected promising budget deficits. Prior to that the Canadian public had not tolerated them except in severe periods of financial difficulty. That was the case for almost 20 some odd years. Chretien basically rearranged the government so that he would appear to show a surplus. You really need to read some history. And no, there is absolutely not a lot of places to cut. Poilievres Next slower plan called for extensive cuts to foreign expenditures and a host of programs and even then he was still going to come in with a $35 billion dollar deficit which he planned to erase over time with growth. And he was cutting pretty deep on a lot of popular programs right down to the CBC Some of those cuts would have been what was included in infrastructure spending for the military under the new proposals. So now we're talking about adding 150 billion dollars to that. That would put us at 170 billion dollars in deficit spending even with the cuts you were talking about. Even worse we're going into a. Of economic slowdown which means government revenues are going to take a hit. It's not sustainable. This isn't sort of something you can argue or have an opinion on, what you were talking about is not remotely sustainable. It would require massive government restructuring over a. Of years as well as restructuring of program delivery and the provinces would have to make adjustments as well. With hard work and a serious effort then maybe in 15 years. Not to mention the fact that the only way it would make sense viably from an economic point of view is if virtually all of the military hardware was made and sourced in Canada creating jobs in Canada so at least the money was circulating back into our economy and right now that would not be the case. I'm sorry but this is not easy even if you have the will. You don't understand how politics work and you don't understand how our money works. The thing that you want to do cannot be done within the time frame they're looking at or even close Sorry. What we should be doing right now is screaming to the High Heavens that this promise is complete bull crap and that we want to see a real plan with real spending numbers per year and real achievable goals on the table instead. Then we might have something we can hold their feet to Instead what's going to happen right now is exactly what I claimed would happen, there will be an increase in spending but most of it will go to either consultants or Basics like purchasing more rifle ammunition or small pay increases. The vast majority of money will go unspent, even if it is budgeted for. The military will become a scapegoat, at the beginning of the year they'll promise to spend billions and billions of dollars on it and at the end of the year they won't have spent those billions and they will point to their budget and say we came in with a lower deficit than expected And if the military isn't speaking up about this then yes the military is responsible, along with the rest of Canadian voters but at least they have the excuse of being too ignorant to realize Well, you were warned. That's all I can say Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Army Guy Posted June 28, 2025 Report Posted June 28, 2025 13 hours ago, CdnFox said: And if the military isn't speaking up about this then yes the military is responsible, along with the rest of Canadian voters but at least they have the excuse of being too ignorant to realize Well, you were warned. That's all I can say The military speaks to the elected officials every day,our government knows full well what is needed, what is wanted,and what our military is capable of or what it is not capable of...At the end of the day there is nothing legally the military could do to be heard...i do know this every year that goes by and purchasing is not addressed we continue to loss capabilities.... we are on the verge of becoming ineffective as a force....our logistical system is collapsing, our offensive capabilities are gone, we would not be able to defend an area the size or toronto, the military would struggle to respond to a major disaster like winnipeg flood, or ice storm... 50 % of everything we own is parked because it is broken and they don't make parts for it any more...including our new maritime helos...one day very soon we'll wake up and our military won't be able to do any simple military task.... Canadians have been warned for decades, they refuse to help, or intercede on their own military behalf....They don't have a clue as to what the military provides the population on a daily basis...nor do they have a clue on what it takes to keep our sovereignty. Thats why military members are leaving, they are asking themselves if these people that we have vowed to risk our lives for, won't even find the funding to fund a proper military then what is the point, why should they risk their own lifes when Canadians don't care about their own defence....We as a nation are more concerned with toxic military culture, DEI, LGBTQ programs, being able to have pink hair or a dirty beard, or weigh in at 250 lbs...thats where we are at today....we can't even train the recruits coming out of basic training in a timely manner, so they are quitting... The fact that the Canadian media has been putting out story after story about our military condition and nobody cares, all of those stories are huge massive red flags to the population...and all the military hears is cricket's....nobody cares, Canadians have been warned over and over again....i guess we jack up the taxes...and make major cuts to social programs if the country is in such a desperate state as you suggest.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
CdnFox Posted June 28, 2025 Report Posted June 28, 2025 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: The military speaks to the elected officials every day,our government knows full well what is needed, what is wanted,and what our military is capable of or what it is not capable of... Looking at the procurement process and how the military has done so far I doubt very much in the military knows full well what is needed. They certainly seem to struggle to articulate it. What did it take, something like 14 years to select a new handgun? It took them forever to find the rangers new rifles for the north and I hear they're all failing. Quote At the end of the day there is nothing legally the military could do to be heard. I can name many. They are still voters and there are still ways Quote Canadians have been warned for decades, they refuse to help Warned by who? Sorry but your guys don't seem that serious about it and we've had this discussion before. And of course the average Canadian doesn't know what's involved with our defense or what our capabilities are, nobody ever actually talks about it. We see articles that the military is getting new fighters and articles that you're getting new submarines, and you're getting new rifles for the north, sometimes other planes and helicopters etc. Somehow none of them actually ever get bought or delivered And if they do they don't work but it sounds like there's activity. Quote Thats why military members are leaving, they are asking themselves if these people that we have vowed to risk our lives for, won't even find the funding to fund a proper military then what is the point, why should they risk their own lifes when Canadians don't care about their own defence....We as a nation are more concerned with toxic military culture, DEI, LGBTQ programs, being able to have pink hair or a dirty beard, or weigh in at 250 lbs...thats where we are at today....we can't even train the recruits coming out of basic training in a timely manner, so they are quitting... Sure, and realistically nobody can blame them. I sure wouldn't want to serve in the military these days. Quote The fact that the Canadian media has been putting out story after story about our military condition and nobody cares, all of those stories are huge massive red flags to the population...and all the military hears is cricket's....nobody cares, Canadians have been warned over and over again....i guess we jack up the taxes...and make major cuts to social programs if the country is in such a desperate state as you suggest.... Because they don't really put out story after story. And when they do the government puts out something saying they're looking into it and handling it. And then the military is silent. And people take that silence as proof that they must be happy with whatever the government is doing. If they weren't why wouldn't they pipe up. There's only one group that's actually intimately familiar with all of the various elements of this and that is the military and they are the one group that is utterly silent 90% of the time. And once again the government has come out with a so-called plan of spending and they're going to fix the military and rah rah. And your position is even though we know that they are lying we should just sit back and enjoy the lie. What I'm saying is that we should be stepping up and saying that that is a bullshit number, we want to see her numbers and an actual plan and it better not involve tons and tons of consultants. But you don't seem to be down with that. So nothing's going to change. When I can't even convince a military person that is necessary to hold the government to account for what it's doing with military spending, what hope is there that anyone else is going to care Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Army Guy Posted June 29, 2025 Report Posted June 29, 2025 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: Looking at the procurement process and how the military has done so far I doubt very much in the military knows full well what is needed. They certainly seem to struggle to articulate it. What did it take, something like 14 years to select a new handgun? It took them forever to find the rangers new rifles for the north and I hear they're all failing. I can name many. They are still voters and there are still ways Warned by who? Sorry but your guys don't seem that serious about it and we've had this discussion before. And of course the average Canadian doesn't know what's involved with our defense or what our capabilities are, nobody ever actually talks about it. We see articles that the military is getting new fighters and articles that you're getting new submarines, and you're getting new rifles for the north, sometimes other planes and helicopters etc. Somehow none of them actually ever get bought or delivered And if they do they don't work but it sounds like there's activity. Sure, and realistically nobody can blame them. I sure wouldn't want to serve in the military these days. Because they don't really put out story after story. And when they do the government puts out something saying they're looking into it and handling it. And then the military is silent. And people take that silence as proof that they must be happy with whatever the government is doing. If they weren't why wouldn't they pipe up. There's only one group that's actually intimately familiar with all of the various elements of this and that is the military and they are the one group that is utterly silent 90% of the time. And once again the government has come out with a so-called plan of spending and they're going to fix the military and rah rah. And your position is even though we know that they are lying we should just sit back and enjoy the lie. What I'm saying is that we should be stepping up and saying that that is a bullshit number, we want to see her numbers and an actual plan and it better not involve tons and tons of consultants. But you don't seem to be down with that. So nothing's going to change. When I can't even convince a military person that is necessary to hold the government to account for what it's doing with military spending, what hope is there that anyone else is going to care The procurement process belongs to a completely other government department....the military is not allowed to tell them exactly what they want, the military draws up spec sheets, of what they want...a civilian in PWSG then puts tenders out to industry and then PWSG then tells them to send the equipment or prototypes to x location for the military to test....Military sends those results back to government, politicians will then pick out what is best, what counts most is not what the military wants, but what offsets is the company willing to make, will it be produced in Canada, how much Canadian content will it have, how many canadians will it employ, So want to know why it takes so long to get something into military service, as the government....military has no control over any of the process, except testing and spec sheets... yes they are still voters, that make up less voters than say the LGBTQ , indigenous communities, the list goes on.... the majority of the military are conservative voters, and yet they have been burned badly by both parties...The majority of Canadians agree our present military status sucks...but this is not enough to put it on a major election platform.... Warned by the military, the last CDS talked to the media on a constant basis, telling them we are not ready to defend this nation, that most of our equipment is broken and lacks spare parts....take a look at the current NAVY admiral and his famous discussion with the media....we have a critical personal shortage, not counting all the media articles spelling it out line by line that our military is in crises mode....there are dozens of pod cast from ex military people begging people to take action....and if your not hearing all of that then i'm sorry you don't care... once again the government runs procurement including picking out the equipment we purchase, take a look at the new maritime helo we bought,it is a one off and already parts are hard to find...that helo was not a military pick , but rather a political one....don't get me wrong the military is quit capable of screwing up a purchase, and there are some that goes right normally it is the sole source ones, like the CF-147F, C-17, C-130J, maybe the F-35...but the list of bad procurements you could write a book about....Iltis jeep,G wagon jeep, LSVW, MSVS trucks, MLVW replacement veh...and thats just trucks... Our guys work for the government and when they are told to not talk about things thats what they do....or they find themselves being retired...or in some meaningless job, or some allegations being made about them....see a long list of Generals that were forced to retire or out right fired, but later cleared... nothing is going to change because Canadians don't want it to change....unless there is consequences for not making NATO target of spending, which is still being talked about....not that Canada cares, why would it, it already has no reputation globally....we have nothing to really offer, europe is talking to us because of carney promises and signing on to the new European defence pact...breaking that is going to have consequences....Carney and the liberals did all of that and yes i hang all my hopes that eventually something does get done, i have a son and daughter in the military...so i'm invested.... In my opinion, this nation is not really worth the effort to defend, don't get me wrong i would fight for those that served and are serving or family and friends....with my last breath.....but that's where my patriotism stops...,and thats a hell of lot more than most Canadians give...thats saying something...when it's own people can't even come up with the funding to properly equip its troops, kind of says it all... https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nato-canadian-armed-forces-europe-1.7135390 Quote Only 58 per cent of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) would be able to respond if called upon in a crisis by NATO allies right now — and almost half of the military's equipment is considered "unavailable and unserviceable" — says a recent internal Department of National Defence (DND) presentation obtained by CBC News. Quote The overview paints an alarming picture of the forces' decline in readiness — one that's even worse than the figures presented in last year's federal budget documents. "In an increasingly dangerous world, where demand for the CAF is increasing, our readiness is decreasing," says the document. The issue of military readiness has preoccupied the House of Commons defence committee. The committee held a series of closed-door meetings last year where MPs could discuss sensitive information with top military commanders. We can't say the government does not know...it is being discussed, by the defence committee, and the serving government gets daily briefs...what DND and the military can be released is up to the government and security clearances... Quote CBC News shared a copy of the internal report with former vice-admiral Mark Norman, a former commander of the navy. He said he was startled by the numbers. "This is borderline atrocious," Norman said. Quote Kerry Buck, a career diplomat and Canada's former ambassador to NATO, said she was "shocked but not surprised" by the numbers. "It means that Canada's falling further down the rank of allies. It means that the gap is growing between our international commitments and our capacity," Buck said. "It impacts our credibility at NATO for sure, but it impacts our security interests, too. It's in our security interest to be a credible contributor to NATO." She said the presentation "should set off alarm bells." I Quote n a year-end interview held last December — before CBC News obtained a copy of the internal assessment — Vice-Admiral Bob Auchterlonie, the head of the military's joint operations command, was asked about NATO's readiness requirements. Was he comfortable that Canada could meet the expectations? "Comfortable today? Probably not," Auchterlonie replied. "Not today, given the shortages we have in different organizations. Could you generate [forces] that quickly? Probably not." below are just a small sample of what is out there in regards to our military, none of these articles paints our military in a good light, and most of these stories sources are military or ex military...so they are standing up and telling the military story, and for some it has cost them their career.... I'm i pinning my hopes on Carney , yes i am....and if he pulls it off he'll have my vote next election....don't get me wrong, i've seen this dozens of times during my career, but as i grow older i become a little more desperate, as my son and daughters have taken up the torch...which is the only reason i still pray, something gets done....trust me it is not out of patriotism, that left me decades ago...it is for my family. If you can not find any media storys covering our military in a negative way your not really looking, there are plenty of ex generals talking to the media, plenty of ex military doing pod casts, way to much info for Canadians not to know anything...not sure what it will take to get them motivated into doing something....funney how the anti war wing nuts can find the time to protest but to ask someone to get out there and protest for our military all you get is crickets...we need more from Canadians. https://macleans.ca/politics/canadas-military-cant-defend-us/ https://macdonaldlaurier.ca/canadas-military-left-behind/ https://www.19fortyfive.com/2025/04/canadas-military-is-slowly-rotting-away/ https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/military-morale-sees-uptick-but-problems-persist 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
SpankyMcFarland Posted June 29, 2025 Report Posted June 29, 2025 China is going to see some serious problems in the next few decades but the achievements of its entrepreneurs, engineers and scientists will continue to astound the world and it has a lot more of them than anybody else does. Frankly, I can’t see the West keeping up. The last thing we need are people like Trump dividing us from within. Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
WestCanMan Posted June 29, 2025 Report Posted June 29, 2025 45 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: The last thing we need are people like Trump dividing us from within. You don't think Trudeau did that? 1 Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. "I don't hate American's, I pointed out the literacy rate to Uncle Sam." - LinkSoul "It's just a parable about rocks and trees talking to muslims to help them kill Jews who are trying to hide. It's open to interpretation." - robobigot
User Posted June 29, 2025 Report Posted June 29, 2025 6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: You don't think Trudeau did that? Just blame Trump... for everything. TDS. 1 Quote
CdnFox Posted June 29, 2025 Report Posted June 29, 2025 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: The procurement process belongs to a completely other government department....the military is not allowed to tell them exactly what they want, the military draws up spec sheets, of what they want...a civilian in PWSG then puts tenders out to industry and then PWSG then tells them to send the equipment or prototypes to x location for the military to test....Military sends those results back to government, politicians will then pick out what is best, what counts most is not what the military wants, but what offsets is the company willing to make, will it be produced in Canada, how much Canadian content will it have, how many canadians will it employ, So want to know why it takes so long to get something into military service, as the government....military has no control over any of the process, except testing and spec sheets... yes they are still voters, that make up less voters than say the LGBTQ , indigenous communities, the list goes on.... the majority of the military are conservative voters, and yet they have been burned badly by both parties...The majority of Canadians agree our present military status sucks...but this is not enough to put it on a major election platform.... Warned by the military, the last CDS talked to the media on a constant basis, telling them we are not ready to defend this nation, that most of our equipment is broken and lacks spare parts....take a look at the current NAVY admiral and his famous discussion with the media....we have a critical personal shortage, not counting all the media articles spelling it out line by line that our military is in crises mode....there are dozens of pod cast from ex military people begging people to take action....and if your not hearing all of that then i'm sorry you don't care... once again the government runs procurement including picking out the equipment we purchase, take a look at the new maritime helo we bought,it is a one off and already parts are hard to find...that helo was not a military pick , but rather a political one....don't get me wrong the military is quit capable of screwing up a purchase, and there are some that goes right normally it is the sole source ones, like the CF-147F, C-17, C-130J, maybe the F-35...but the list of bad procurements you could write a book about....Iltis jeep,G wagon jeep, LSVW, MSVS trucks, MLVW replacement veh...and thats just trucks... Our guys work for the government and when they are told to not talk about things thats what they do....or they find themselves being retired...or in some meaningless job, or some allegations being made about them....see a long list of Generals that were forced to retire or out right fired, but later cleared... nothing is going to change because Canadians don't want it to change....unless there is consequences for not making NATO target of spending, which is still being talked about....not that Canada cares, why would it, it already has no reputation globally....we have nothing to really offer, europe is talking to us because of carney promises and signing on to the new European defence pact...breaking that is going to have consequences....Carney and the liberals did all of that and yes i hang all my hopes that eventually something does get done, i have a son and daughter in the military...so i'm invested.... In my opinion, this nation is not really worth the effort to defend, don't get me wrong i would fight for those that served and are serving or family and friends....with my last breath.....but that's where my patriotism stops...,and thats a hell of lot more than most Canadians give...thats saying something...when it's own people can't even come up with the funding to properly equip its troops, kind of says it all... https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nato-canadian-armed-forces-europe-1.7135390 We can't say the government does not know...it is being discussed, by the defence committee, and the serving government gets daily briefs...what DND and the military can be released is up to the government and security clearances... I below are just a small sample of what is out there in regards to our military, none of these articles paints our military in a good light, and most of these stories sources are military or ex military...so they are standing up and telling the military story, and for some it has cost them their career.... I'm i pinning my hopes on Carney , yes i am....and if he pulls it off he'll have my vote next election....don't get me wrong, i've seen this dozens of times during my career, but as i grow older i become a little more desperate, as my son and daughters have taken up the torch...which is the only reason i still pray, something gets done....trust me it is not out of patriotism, that left me decades ago...it is for my family. If you can not find any media storys covering our military in a negative way your not really looking, there are plenty of ex generals talking to the media, plenty of ex military doing pod casts, way to much info for Canadians not to know anything...not sure what it will take to get them motivated into doing something....funney how the anti war wing nuts can find the time to protest but to ask someone to get out there and protest for our military all you get is crickets...we need more from Canadians. https://macleans.ca/politics/canadas-military-cant-defend-us/ https://macdonaldlaurier.ca/canadas-military-left-behind/ https://www.19fortyfive.com/2025/04/canadas-military-is-slowly-rotting-away/ https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/military-morale-sees-uptick-but-problems-persist Well sounds like you've given up and go sit in your corner and wait quietly for the rest of us to try and deal with it. Which near as I can tell is basically what the military has been doing for the last 30 years anyway so you should have experience. 1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said: China is going to see some serious problems in the next few decades but the achievements of its entrepreneurs, engineers and scientists will continue to astound the world and it has a lot more of them than anybody else does. Frankly, I can’t see the West keeping up. The last thing we need are people like Trump dividing us from within. The liberals thoroughly divided us already. I actually have serious doubts the Canada will be the same size and shape as it is today 50 years from now. But we'll see Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.