The Wuhan lab leak conspiracy theory now a likely reality

[Goddess]

18 minutes ago, myata said:

The declaration

Some countries followed it almost to the word. And look: the sky did not fall down. Only a flu-like disease with a disproportionately high impact in the vulnerable population. Focused protection makes all the sense. Population-wide indiscriminate draconian policies: not much; and all the way to a clear overreach and abuse of power.

When the Declaration came out, within days Fauci & Collins were frantically emailing each other saying that "a devastating take-down" of the Declaration had to take place.

Then they censored, silenced and blacklisted the world's top epidemiologists, virologists and biologists for daring to suggest focused protection over lockdowns, job firings, mandatory jabs, etc.

I'm telling you - Fauci is a murderer.

Edited June 5 by Goddess

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, Goddess said:

When the Declaration came out, within days Fauci & Collins were frantically emailing each other saying that "a devastating take-down" of the Declaration had to take place.

Then they censored, silenced and blacklisted the world's top epidemiologists, virologists and biologists for daring to suggest focused protection over lockdowns, job firings, mandatory jabs, etc.

I'm telling you - Fauci is a murderer.

He murdered the Barrington declarers?

BTW how did you manage to escape Trudeau's hit squad? 

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

BTW how did you manage to escape Trudeau's hit squad? 

The Freedom Convoy put a halt to it, just before you all went full-on Nazi.

I'm sure I'm on a watch list, though, if that makes you feel batter.

Also, if Trudeau gets his way, YOU yourself can report me and have me put in prison for posting medical studies.

[eyeball]

Just now, Goddess said:

I'm sure I'm on a watch list, though, if that makes you feel batter.

Well I should hope so. I'd hate to think all the effort I've put into reporting you has fallen on deaf ears. 

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Well I should hope so. I'd hate to think all the effort I've put into reporting you has fallen on deaf ears. 

You're such a good little comrade.

[Black Dog]

2 hours ago, ironstone said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-officials-raised-alarms-about-safety-issues-in-wuhan-lab-report-2020-4?op=1

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-suspends-federal-funding-wuhan-lab-over-non-compliance-2023-07-19/

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/u-s-intel-report-identified-3-wuhan-lab-researchers-who-n1268327

For the last link, I suppose that it's possible that those lab workers all happened to be in the same wet market at approximately the same time.

 

Here's what the report actually said about thos esick workers:

Quote

“While several WIV researchers fell mildly ill in Fall 2019,” the report reads, “they experienced a range of symptoms consistent with colds or allergies with accompanying symptoms typically not associated with COVID-19, and some of them were confirmed to have been sick with other illnesses unrelated to COVID-19.”

 

2 hours ago, myata said:

Well, there are some essential variables in this equation: 1) the timing and 2) multiple probabilities. What would be the chance of it appearing naturally exactly at the time when some lab was presumably working on something similar AND in the same place too? That would be like two unlikely positions of the planets aligning like by some magic.

"Presumably" is doing an awful lot of work there. Sounds like you're building a narrative.

[CdnFox]

40 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Remember Trudeau was sucked in completely by China and wanted to buy protective equipment from them, but they wouldn't deliver it and the deal fell through.  This shows his naivety.  Another embarrassment for Canada.

It was vaccines actually. He paid a couple hundred million dollars to help them develop a vaccine because a Montreal investor owned a part of the company in china that was doing the development. They were guaranteed to be allowed to buy the vaccine as soon as it was ready. Then the Chinese completely pulled the rug out from under him and failed to deliver and told him to p*ss off and didn't give the money back.

We actually sent our protective gear to china in the beginning if you'll recall.

The upshot of all of this was that while everyone else was shopping for moderna and Pfizer vaccines we expected to get our vaccines from china. When that didn't happen we had to scramble and try and buy vaccines after the fact and go to the end of the line. Consequently we were several months late getting vaccines compared to other countries.

So for those who believe in the vaccine program and believe that vaccines saved lives, it could be said with certainty that Trudeau's decisions would have cost lives.

 

[myata]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Fauci is a

The Congress inquiry cited some untoward practices that in my view, a scientist who values their profession and professional reputation could not allow to be involved in.

[myata]

56 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Sounds like you're building a narrative.

No, not building anything. It's only the math and unlike some of us, it just cannot lie.

The probability of two unrelated events happening within same short interval: 0.000 something

The probability of two unrelated events happening at the same very close geographical location: 0.000 else.

If the events are indeed not related the probability of it being sheer chance has to be the multiple of the two, with many zeroes. On the other hand, human negligence and just bad luck happen all the time see "car accidents", etc. So if - and it's an if, similar research was indeed conducted there, and there can be some evidence of that, it's the math that's telling us which is more likely. No need to build anything.

[blackbird]

56 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

It was vaccines actually. He paid a couple hundred million dollars to help them develop a vaccine because a Montreal investor owned a part of the company in china that was doing the development. They were guaranteed to be allowed to buy the vaccine as soon as it was ready. Then the Chinese completely pulled the rug out from under him and failed to deliver and told him to p*ss off and didn't give the money back.

We actually sent our protective gear to china in the beginning if you'll recall.

The upshot of all of this was that while everyone else was shopping for moderna and Pfizer vaccines we expected to get our vaccines from china. When that didn't happen we had to scramble and try and buy vaccines after the fact and go to the end of the line. Consequently we were several months late getting vaccines compared to other countries.

So for those who believe in the vaccine program and believe that vaccines saved lives, it could be said with certainty that Trudeau's decisions would have cost lives.

 

Yes, I think you are correct.  My memory is not that great, but I recall something like that.  One would think the PM would have known better than to trust China.  Might have even been around the time of the two Michaels being held by China.

Edited June 5 by blackbird

[Black Dog]

53 minutes ago, myata said:

No, not building anything. It's only the math and unlike some of us, it just cannot lie.

The probability of two unrelated events happening within same short interval: 0.000 something

The probability of two unrelated events happening at the same very close geographical location: 0.000 else.

 

Math huh. Feel free to show your work.

[myata]

1 minute ago, Black Dog said:

Feel free to show your work.

You don't need a PhD here: only common sense that most of the readers will understand: if you have one event at a certain place A (the bat research project, if confirmed); then the likelihood that another, entirely unrelated one: natural development of a virus: happening at the exact same time and in the exact same place has to be minuscule to non existent.

On the other hand, the probability of a mishap is always present. So it's all down to the confirmation of the project. If there is a reasonable ground to believe that it was taking place at the place of the origin of the virus, the probabilities would be stuck squarely in favor of the lab origin simply by the law of probabilities.

[Black Dog]

2 minutes ago, myata said:

You don't need a PhD here: only common sense that most of the readers will understand: if you have one event at a certain place A (the bat research project, if confirmed); then the likelihood that another, entirely unrelated one: natural development of a virus: happening at the exact same time and in the exact same place has to be minuscule to non existent.

You said it was math based on probability, now you're saying it's common sense. Those aren't the same at all.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, myata said:

The Congress inquiry cited some untoward practices that in my view, a scientist who values their profession and professional reputation could not allow to be involved in.

Such as what?  Keep in mind that there was an accusation of murder in the thread.

Edited June 5 by Michael Hardner

[myata]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Such as what?

Such as one study with preformed conclusions before it was written; another one was where an individual made a substantial contribution but wasn't among the authors. If memory serves me well, but should be too hard to find. Science is about the objective truth, not some holy crusade. Over and again we have to come back to this.

4 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

You said it was

OK forget it. If that wasn't clear enough I have to give up.

Edited June 5 by myata

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, myata said:

Such as one study with preformed conclusions before it was written; another one was where an individual made a substantial contribution but wasn't among the authors. If memory serves me well, but should be too hard to find.

Ok. You're a serious poster but I will have to see details.

 

Again, we have the usual moving frame of reference for mistakes/incompetence/crime/murder on here.

[Black Dog]

2 minutes ago, myata said:

OK forget it. If that wasn't clear enough I have to give up.

It was clear: clearly nonsensical.

 

[myata]

15 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

It was clear:

Just don't worry: will make no difference to the converted.

[myata]

By the way, this episode brings up an interesting (hypothetical at this point) question. Suppose (if) the study did take place and someone was involved in it some way - that's an if as yet, what would their/your reaction be when they/you found out about the consequences?

I can see how less sophisticated types would try to diminish the effect, like it didn't matter anyways just another flu. But others, more determined ones could be thinking, f- it, can't be helped now but we still can save the humankind, show it what it was all about.

Which one would you be?

[suds]

54 minutes ago, myata said:

You don't need a PhD here: only common sense that most of the readers will understand: if you have one event at a certain place A (the bat research project, if confirmed); then the likelihood that another, entirely unrelated one: natural development of a virus: happening at the exact same time and in the exact same place has to be minuscule to non existent.

On the other hand, the probability of a mishap is always present. So it's all down to the confirmation of the project. If there is a reasonable ground to believe that it was taking place at the place of the origin of the virus, the probabilities would be stuck squarely in favor of the lab origin simply by the law of probabilities.

Excellent deductions! The only proof of Sars-CoV-2 originating from a zoonotic spillover event is that all previous coronaviruses have been proven to originate from zoonotic spillover events, of which gain of function research never played a factor. Now gain of function research does play a factor as a distinct possibility because it was taking place at the the same time and the same geographical location as where the Sars-CoV-2 outbreak occurred. Until Sars-CoV-2 can be proven to have originated from a zoonotic spillover event (on its own merits), the probabilities are far greater of originating from gain of function research taking place at the Wuhan lab.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

You said it was math based on probability, now you're saying it's common sense. Those aren't the same at all.

You said it wasn't the lab and every expert says it probably was. 

Maybe address that first 

[eyeball]

27 minutes ago, suds said:

...the probabilities are far greater of originating from gain of function research taking place at the Wuhan lab.

So what? Is knowing this supposed to make us better people or something?

How has this changed your life?

[SpankyMcFarland]

We’ve been openly debating the origin of Covid for years. If convincing evidence emerges either way then I’ll be happy to believe it. Neither of the two leading theories reflects well on the PRC. They have failed to co-operate fully with outside agencies. 

[Michael Hardner]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So what? Is knowing this supposed to make us better people or something?

How has this changed your life?

It makes people happy when they detect dishonest statements from institutions.  It's a battle to control the narrative, and to wrestle it from the existing ruling class.

[suds]

14 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So what? Is knowing this supposed to make us better people or something?

How has this changed your life?

For someone who seems to care so much about the planet you seem to think making deadly pathogens far more deadly for humans is a good idea. Can't see anything going wrong there eh?  What the hell are BSL4 labs doing in large population centres anyway? Some are in the middle of war zones in Ukraine. Yeah, let's find out what happened, hold people accountable, and make changes where changes should be made. The world has to come to some agreement on these things. What happens in China, or anywhere else doesn't stay there. We were just lucky this time it wasn't kids the virus went after.