The Wuhan lab leak conspiracy theory now a likely reality

[ExFlyer]

27 minutes ago, suds said:

By definition, 'conspiracy theories' are hypothetical and not theory in any sense of the word. Not being based on research and observable data.

or a "Hypothesis"? LOL

https://www.livescience.com/34052-unsolved-mysteries-physics.html  or

https://www.livescience.com/34052-unsolved-mysteries-physics.html or

https://www.famousscientists.org/10-most-famous-scientific-theories-that-were-later-debunked/

Point is, theories or hypothesis are not fact.

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

 

And the saga with conspirators goes on ...and on....and on LOL

Here it is again, from the link, from the editorial ..

"HYPOTHISIS. THEORY".

"Wuhan was not capable of containing an airborne virus "

Someones rectal pluck and you folks suck it up as fact  LOL

 

Sure, quoting people in bits and pieces out of context certainly proves your point LOLOL 

Some of the best experts in the world have looked at this and they have said the most likely explanation is that the lab was the source. So if you propose anything other than that then it is you who is proposing the conspiracy theory, being a less likely unrealistic theory.

Based on what we know it was the lab. Unless you can prove otherwise that is the most likely case. Do try to get over it with a little less crying  

[ExFlyer]

35 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sure, quoting people in bits and pieces out of context certainly proves your point LOLOL 

Some of the best experts in the world have looked at this and they have said the most likely explanation is that the lab was the source. So if you propose anything other than that then it is you who is proposing the conspiracy theory, being a less likely unrealistic theory.

Based on what we know it was the lab. Unless you can prove otherwise that is the most likely case. Do try to get over it with a little less crying  

Chuckle.

The Vice President , or is it the President of the repolitics conspiracy theory club speaks....far too much LOL

Yeah but none of them have positive proof. LOL Only hypothesis LOL

"Unless you can prove otherwise that is the most likely case."  all theory and hypothesis, no proof. Lots of BS but no evidence to prove their theory. LOL

My theory is that you are an a$$ but...it is only a hypothesis LOL

Keep going Pres LOL

Edited June 6 by ExFlyer

[myata]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

Well if/when we have an outbreak of a virus

Well it would help to first try to understand what it is and is not, before going into a full drive headless chicken mode. Intelligent people did just that and look. Or how would we even know? If only from the media horror stories?

Edited June 6 by myata

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Whereas people in the private sector have everyone else's best interests at heart? Give your balls a tug.

Socialism is stealing and is therefore evil to begin with.

In the government socialized health care system, people are protected by powerful unions.  Also, there is a benefit for the unions to having shortages of staff and services.  It puts more pressure on the bureaucracy and government to keep bad employees.  They can't afford to let anyone go.

In a private system, people can be more easily given the boot if they don't produce.  The employer should be able to let people go who are doing a poor job or who are lazy.  They can't now with the powerful unions.  Also, unions should not be given the power they have.  In a private system, people should be rewarded for doing good work.  This provides some incentive to deliver good services efficiently.   

Public systems often have huge bureaucracies that control things and it harder to get things done.

If would be better to have a private system side by side the public system and take the pressure off the public system.  People with money could afford to pay for some health insurance and pay a deductible when they receive some service.  That would add much more money to the overall health care system which would improve the service for everyone.

Edited June 6 by blackbird

[CdnFox]

14 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Chuckle.

The Vice President , or is it the President of the repolitics conspiracy theory club speaks....far too much LOL

LOL - oh look, the Grand High Lama of losers on reaplolitics has had the voices in his head promote me to 'President"  

I guess that's you're way of saying "I can;t address your point so Here's some stupidity to distract from that"   

19 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

"Unless you can prove otherwise that is the most likely case."  all theory and hypothesis, no proof. Lots of BS but no evidence to prove their theory. LOL

Indeed there is plenty, and that's been given go you before.  Here's some again. 

COVID escaped from a lab, Canadian scientist explains | National Post

She's a molecular biologist.   And you're a doof.  So her opinion that there's sufficient evidence to be "clear and convincing" means more than yours. 

And how about this: 

FBI Director Wray acknowledges bureau assessment that Covid-19 likely resulted from lab incident | CNN Politics

The fbi specializes in investigating to find the source of things and answering teh question 'what happened'.  Another conspiracy nut you think?

How about a team of US scientists?

Damning new report finds China lab leak most likely source of COVID-19 — and blames US for pumping millions into the dangerous research (msn.com)

Sounds like they had a great deal of evidence to work with. 

 

 

As usual, you speak without thinking and without research. This is not really a theory. This is a researched conclusion that has been arrived at by multiple independent groups who are fully qualified and trained To conduct such an investigation in this subject.

 

He lefty. Maybe you should follow the science.

[WestCanMan]

37 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Chuckle.

The Vice President , or is it the President of the repolitics conspiracy theory club speaks....far too much LOL

Yeah but none of them have positive proof. LOL Only hypothesis LOL

There are 2,000 wetmarkets in China. 400 of them sell exotic species. 

The wetmarket where Fauci theorized the virus just happened to come from is the one right beside the WIV, and they're 1500km from where those bats who carry that virus come from. Still coincidence that the covid virus broke out in that one spot?

if you took a needle and poked a single hole on a map of China, you couldn't hit the WIV without hitting the wemarket at the same time, they're that close together. 

Not only that, Fauci's theory sprang up after he was already aware that the leaky nearby lab already had a bat coronavirus in it that was highly transmissible among humans. 

Isn't it weird to know that there was already a covid virus right there in that WIV building that was highly transmissible among humans, but Fauci chose tell the whole world "The lethal virus came from over there, and we don't believe it's transmissible among humans"?

Not sinister? Not just a little bit sinister?

Sure, Fauci, let's all just choose to err on the side of caution pandemic. That's your job, right? To make sure that pandemics get off to a roaring start? 

And why did social media giants shut down all talk of the BSL4 lab? Again, not at all sinister? 

I have a theory: If it looks like dogcrap and smells like dogcrap and there are flies landing on it, don't eat 2 handfuls plus 4 boosters.

Edited June 6 by WestCanMan

[WestCanMan]

13 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

LOL - oh look, the Grand High Lama of losers on reaplolitics has had the voices in his head promote me to 'President"  

I guess that's you're way of saying "I can;t address your point so Here's some stupidity to distract from that"   

Indeed there is plenty, and that's been given go you before.  Here's some again. 

COVID escaped from a lab, Canadian scientist explains | National Post

She's a molecular biologist.   And you're a doof.  So her opinion that there's sufficient evidence to be "clear and convincing" means more than yours. 

From that article:

• While her reasoning is quite technical, part of it comes down to a leaked 2018 grant proposal for a research project called Defuse, which aimed to create a SARS-like virus with a unique feature called a furin cleavage site that would enhance its infectiousness in humans. The SARS-CoV-2 virus has that feature, she says, and genetic data suggest it gained that feature just before the pandemic began.

 

 

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

From that article:

• While her reasoning is quite technical, part of it comes down to a leaked 2018 grant proposal for a research project called Defuse, which aimed to create a SARS-like virus with a unique feature called a furin cleavage site that would enhance its infectiousness in humans. The SARS-CoV-2 virus has that feature, she says, and genetic data suggest it gained that feature just before the pandemic began.

 

 

for sure. There is a great deal of evidence that points in that direction.

So now we come to proof. Exlama .... Sorry Exflyer...  is trying to play a bit of a game, sliding from talking about 'evidence' to talking about 'proof'. 

And he's clearly intending to try and sell the idea that in order for it to be considered to be reasonable the burden of proof exceeds that which you would find in a criminal trial, beyond A Reasonable Doubt. He seems to think that there has to be no doubt whatsoever.

I think a reasonable person would suggest that a lower burden of proof is appropriate.

The lowest burden of proof is the balance of probabilities, (referred to in the us as the preponderance of the evidence) meaning that when you take a look at it which answer is the most probable? It absolutely 100% clears that hurdle without even trying.

So we bump it up and talk about "Clear and convincing" . That's where i means that the  evidence  is highly and substantially more likely to be true than untrue. Well we have a truck load of experts as well as the FBI who is used to investigating things all saying that they are convinced that the evidence meets that bar. But they find it clear and convincing that this is what happened

 

That's a pretty high standard. Determining if it meets beyond A Reasonable Doubt levels would require a jury and a trial. But it seems to be brushing up against that.

 

In any case, it is obvious that there is more than enough evidence to say that it has been Clearly and convincingly proven. Sucks to be a denier these days  

 

[ExFlyer]

37 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

LOL

 

He lefty. Maybe you should follow the science.

F'n loser president speaks some more.....BS   LOL

29 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

There are 2,000 wetmarkets in China. 400 of them sell exotic species. 

The wetmarket where Fauci theorized the virus just happened to come from is the one right beside the WIV, and they're 1500km from where those bats who carry that virus come from. Still coincidence that the covid virus broke out in that one spot?

if you took a needle and poked a single hole on a map of China, you couldn't hit the WIV without hitting the wemarket at the same time, they're that close together. 

Not only that, Fauci's theory sprang up after he was already aware that the leaky nearby lab already had a bat coronavirus in it that was highly transmissible among humans. 

Isn't it weird to know that there was already a covid virus right there in that WIV building that was highly transmissible among humans, but Fauci chose tell the whole world "The lethal virus came from over there, and we don't believe it's transmissible among humans"?

Not sinister? Not just a little bit sinister?

Sure, Fauci, let's all just choose to err on the side of caution pandemic. That's your job, right? To make sure that pandemics get off to a roaring start? 

And why did social media giants shut down all talk of the BSL4 lab? Again, not at all sinister? 

I have a theory: If it looks like dogcrap and smells like dogcrap and there are flies landing on it, don't eat 2 handfuls plus 4 boosters.

Hey, say what you want, the topic is about some persons editorial and it is self admitted hypothesis.....like your diatribe.... no poof,

[ExFlyer]

25 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

From that article:

• While her reasoning is quite technical, part of it comes down to a leaked 2018 grant proposal for a research project called Defuse, which aimed to create a SARS-like virus with a unique feature called a furin cleavage site that would enhance its infectiousness in humans. The SARS-CoV-2 virus has that feature, she says, and genetic data suggest it gained that feature just before the pandemic began.

 

 

And, as I said, some Canadian funding from the Winnipeg labs where they dismissed and ejected 2 Chinese scientists.

[blackbird]

If the CCP and People's Liberation Army believes in unrestricted warfare as described in the two PLA officer's book written about 25 years ago, then it is certainly is a possibility that the Covid 19 virus was part of that unrestricted warfare.

They certainly have no qualms about using political interference and other tools to extend their control and influence in the west.

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Sure, Fauci, let's all just choose to err on the side of caution pandemic. That's your job, right? To make sure that pandemics get off to a roaring start?

So how exactly did Fauci do his job? The first thing a real investigator would do is establish the perpetrator was actually at the scene of the crime in China. If you're implying he dispatched an operative(s) then who is he/she/they? The only other perpetrators identified so far in the plan to kill millions for billions are Fauci the murderer himself and the 5 or 6 psyop guys goddess presumably has evidence of that made it all possible by psyching out the planet.

Edited June 7 by eyeball

[CdnFox]

35 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So how exactly did Fauci do his job? The first thing a real investigator would do is establish the perpetrator was actually at the scene of the crime in China.

You're basing that on your years of experience as an investigator?

Seriously, before you talk any more why not do some research and set aside your bias.  Otherwise this is just going to be another case of you digging your hole deeper and deeper till you wind up looking absurd. 

If you want to take a different position at least research it first and see if it makes sense, you can bet many of the others  you're arguing with  here have on this subject and they will chew you up and spit you out and take your lunch money if you just try to 'jr dick tracey' your way through it. 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

You're basing that on your years of experience as an investigator?

No, it's based on what you genius' have said happened, that Fauci murdered millions of human beings around the planet by releasing the virus he cooked up in Wuhan. So he could make billions of dollars peddling a vaccine for it.

Maybe a picture of Fauci doing this in Wuhan to start things off would help your case.

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

F'n loser president speaks some more.....BS   LOL

 

ROFLMAO     My how very original   Like that that make it extremely difficult to underestimate you  

Quote

Hey, say what you want, the topic is about some persons editorial and it is self admitted hypothesis.....like your diatribe.... no poof,

Hey lie all you like but as I have shown there is a ton of proof. But like every leftist delusionist out there you tend to take things that don't agree with your echo chamber mentality and simply edit them out of existence. The sun will always rise in the west in your world if that's what's needed for you to continue having your beliefs.

[CdnFox]

34 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, it's based on what you genius' have said happened, that Fauci murdered millions of human beings around the planet by releasing the virus he cooked up in Wuhan. So he could make billions of dollars peddling a vaccine for it.

 

Still digging that hole I see. Okay, point out where anybody suggested that he personally released the virus. Anyone. Even once where they said he personally was the one who did it.

Anytime now.

Still waiting.

Are you done looking like an !diot or do we need to continue this?

Though Fauci played a direct role in the creation of the virus and Therefore in the subsequent confinement breach. But nobody has suggested that he personally went to china and personally opened up a vial of the stuff and sprinkled it on people.

Edited June 7 by CdnFox

[ExFlyer]

5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

ROFLMAO     My how very original   Like that that make it extremely difficult to underestimate you  

Hey lie all you like but as I have shown there is a ton of proof. But like every leftist delusionist out there you tend to take things that don't agree with your echo chamber mentality and simply edit them out of existence. The sun will always rise in the west in your world if that's what's needed for you to continue having your beliefs.

You have shown shit all. Only thing shown is reinforce your conspiracy club presidency LOL

Her are the exact words again "Her guest essay in Sunday’s Times, titled “Why the Pandemic Probably Started in a Lab, in 5 Key Points,” takes readers through the so-called lab leak hypothesis" 

Hypothesis: "A hypothesis is an assumption, an idea that is proposed for the sake of argument so that it can be tested to see if it might be true. In the scientific method, the hypothesis is constructed before any applicable research has been done, apart from a basic background review."

If she had proof, it would be a scientific paper, not a guest essay LOL

Essay "An essay is, generally, a piece of writing that gives the author's own argument, but the definition is vague, overlapping with those of a letter, a paper, ..."

 

So,you are defending an imagination making it a conspiracy , as you always do. Yup, you are just confirming you are a F'n loser again LOL

[myata]

Full data for independent and transparent verification of work done on bat viruses before the pandemic has not been made available by China and US (also an insightful piece in its own right):

"EHA, UNC, NIH, USAID, and other research partners have failed to disclose their activities to the US scientific community and the US public, instead declaring that they were not involved in any experiments that could have resulted in the emergence of SARS-CoV-2. The NIH has specifically stated (6) that there is a significant evolutionary distance between the published viral sequences and that of SARS-CoV-2 and that the pandemic virus could not have resulted from the work sponsored by NIH. Of course, this statement is only as good as the limited data on which it is based, and verification of this claim is dependent on gaining access to any other unpublished viral sequences that are deposited in relevant US and Chinese databases (7,8). On May 11, 2022, Acting NIH Director Lawrence Tabak testified before Congress that several such sequences in a US database were removed from public view, and that this was done at the request of both Chinese and US investigators."

While this fact in itself seriously undermines the possibility of objective and transparent investigation into the origin of the pandemic, the combination of the two statements, that according to the cited appear to be confirmed facts makes it harder to dismiss the possibility of the human-contributed origin:

1. That some work on similar viruses has been done right at the time X.

2. The governments of China and US including the agencies were not fully forthcoming and transparent about the exact nature of this work.

And this coincidence is even more troubling. If DARPA did not approve it in the public records, can any firm conclusion be made that it did not happen?

3. We do know that the insertion of such FCS sequences into SARS-like viruses was a specific goal of work proposed by the EHA-WIV-UNC partnership within a 2018 grant proposal (“DEFUSE”) that was submitted to the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA)

"We also know that that this research team would be familiar with several previous experiments involving the successful insertion of an FCS sequence into SARS-CoV-1 (26) and other coronaviruses, and they had a lot of experience in construction of chimeric SARS-like viruses (27–29). In addition, the research team would also have some familiarity with the FCS sequence and the FCS-dependent activation mechanism of human ENaC α (19), which was extensively characterized at UNC (17, 18). For a research team assessing the pandemic potential of SARS-related coronaviruses, the FCS of human ENaC—an FCS known to be efficiently cleaved by host furin present in the target location (epithelial cells) of an important target organ (lung), of the target organism (human)—might be a rational, if not obvious, choice of FCS to introduce into a virus to alter its infectivity, in line with other work performed previously."

And we also know that scientists with an idea of an exciting project and the experience to execute it couldn't be easily discouraged by a single failed grant application and would likely look for other opportunities.

To summarize:

- Many disturbing coincidences around COV virus work right around the time of the emergence of the pandemic.

- Governments not being fully transparent.

- And no firm evidence supporting the natural origin.

 

Edited June 7 by myata

[ExFlyer]

43 minutes ago, myata said:

Full data for independent a....

- And no firm evidence supporting the natural origin.

 

And therein lies the fact that the topic headline is just someones opinion and imagination and also has no proof of their hypothesis.

[myata]

28 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

is just someones opinion and imagination

Not true: because the factual evidence that such a research a) was technically possible and b) was actually proposed cannot be denied. The coincidence in time the research topic was at least discussed with the pandemic is a fact that cannot be denied. Other circumstantial evidence, like sick workers also coincidental with the pandemic. This has to be stacked against the evidence for the alternative hypothesis that is: none. No possible animal host was found so far and maybe there's a reason for that: it would have to have very specific makeup of a certain genetic sequence identical to human epithelial cells (that is, nasal channels, throat and lungs). Just another coincidence? This is the balance of arguments as of today.

If - and again, hypothetically any such project was being developed, it would be unwise to do it in a developed democratic country due to high risk of leak/whistleblowing but what would be another near-perfect location, close to the source and very far from any chance of control or transparency? And after it was free in the world, would one focus on understanding the novel agent and intelligent means to control it - or throw in the air fear and panic distracting from the questions about its origin? There are a few too many strange events and developments around this purportedly entirely natural event. Doesn't seem very natural, no?

The reported toll of the pandemic came to over seven million worldwide. This is on the scale of the world wars I and II. Loss of uncounted public wealth, a world-wide recession, disruption of the economy, the inflation that followed. Is it too little and insignificant to expect some meaningful answers?

[blackbird]

16 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

or a "Hypothesis"? LOL

https://www.livescience.com/34052-unsolved-mysteries-physics.html  or

https://www.livescience.com/34052-unsolved-mysteries-physics.html or

https://www.famousscientists.org/10-most-famous-scientific-theories-that-were-later-debunked/

Point is, theories or hypothesis are not fact.

 

Do you work for the People's Liberation Army of the CCP?   

Deliberately starting a pandemic is a logical tool of unrestricted warfare against the west.  Understanding that is called reason or logic.  The power that uses it is going to be very careful to make sure they are not caught.  Allowing it to become a "proven fact" would be against the whole strategy of unrestricted warfare.  How can the countries who fall victim respond if they have no proof?  They can't.

The fact that many people do not believe it is deliberate is the goal of the state that uses such warfare methods.  If the west doesn't know it is being attacked, that gives a great advantage to the attacker.  They are safe from retaliation. Welcome to the new world.

One of the main purposes of virology labs is to study deadly contagious viruses and could include their use in biological warfare.

Edited June 7 by blackbird

[blackbird]

The fact that China (the CCP) was and is so secretive about where the Covid 19 virus came from is proof they have something to hide.  Biological warfare must be done secretly or it loses it's effectiveness.

[WestCanMan]

15 hours ago, CdnFox said:

for sure. There is a great deal of evidence that points in that direction.

So now we come to proof. Exlama .... Sorry Exflyer...  is trying to play a bit of a game, sliding from talking about 'evidence' to talking about 'proof'. 

And he's clearly intending to try and sell the idea that in order for it to be considered to be reasonable the burden of proof exceeds that which you would find in a criminal trial, beyond A Reasonable Doubt. He seems to think that there has to be no doubt whatsoever.

I think a reasonable person would suggest that a lower burden of proof is appropriate.

The lowest burden of proof is the balance of probabilities, (referred to in the us as the preponderance of the evidence) meaning that when you take a look at it which answer is the most probable? It absolutely 100% clears that hurdle without even trying.

 

 

His standard is "It could be this or this, but it will officially be considered the least likely of the two unless the most likely option is proven conclusively."

The two contending theories are:

1. a "covid" virus is known to have existed in a lab, because it's on record that they created it and what kinds of tests they did with it, and it escaped. Three of the earliest recorded infections are also known to have occurred there. That virus caused the pandemic. The guy who funded the research said that the virus didn't come from there, but common sense says it came from there. 
2. a second, identical covid virus may have been organically created in nature by a very complicated set of coincidences, and by another strange coincidence, 3 people from the Wuhan lab were among the very first people infected. AND... the guy who funded the research in the lab said that the virus didn't come from the lab.

 

The first story makes sense: The covid virus that was already in existence got out and infected people in the lab, it spread from there.

The second story relies on a lot of unlikely coincidences:

1. natural mutations produced an identical virus to the one in the lab, with the exact same furin cleavage site no less
2. it occurred in that one wetmarket out of 400 wetmarkets that sell exotic species,
3. all of the intermediary species that were required to connect the dots between bat and human were at that one wetmarket
4. and the first recorded infections just randomly happened to be some people who worked in the lab.

Edited June 7 by WestCanMan

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

And therein lies the fact that the topic headline is just someones opinion and imagination and also has no proof of their hypothesis.

Why are you trying so hard to dismiss the idea that the Covid 19 virus came from the Wuhan Virology lab?

"

3. Secret military activity at the WIV:

Secrecy and non-disclosure are standard practice for Beijing. For many years the United States has publicly raised concerns about China’s past biological weapons work, which Beijing has neither documented nor demonstrably eliminated, despite its clear obligations under the Biological Weapons Convention.

Despite the WIV presenting itself as a civilian institution, the United States has determined that the WIV has collaborated on publications and secret projects with China’s military. The WIV has engaged in classified research, including laboratory animal experiments, on behalf of the Chinese military since at least 2017.

The United States and other donors who funded or collaborated on civilian research at the WIV have a right and obligation to determine whether any of our research funding was diverted to secret Chinese military projects at the WIV.

Today’s revelations just scratch the surface of what is still hidden about COVID-19’s origin in China. Any credible investigation into the origin of COVID-19 demands complete, transparent access to the research labs in Wuhan, including their facilities, samples, personnel, and records.

As the world continues to battle this pandemic – and as WHO investigators begin their work, after more than a year of delays – the virus’s origin remains uncertain. The United States will continue to do everything it can to support a credible and thorough investigation, including by continuing to demand transparency on the part of Chinese authorities."

Fact Sheet: Activity at the Wuhan Institute of Virology - United States Department of State

China is very secretive about the origin of the virus.  There is a very logical reason for secrecy.

If it is a biological weapon, then of course, it would have to be done in complete secrecy.  That is how unrestricted or unconventional warfare works.  If the country or countries being attacked don't know or realize they are being deliberately attacked, this gives a huge advantage to the attacker.  It is unlikely that it will ever be proven where this virus originated and why.