eyeball Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 9 minutes ago, User said: Again, there is A LOT of space between climate change is fake and the doomsday we will all die nonsense you are pushing. it isn’t one or the other. I doubt we'll all die. We're a very tough species - the weediest invasive species on Earth. Our society and civilization however is a different kettle of fish. It's like a deteriorating old boat far at sea in a storm with things breaking down faster than they can be repaired. Unsustainable in a word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, eyeball said: I doubt we'll all die. We're a very tough species - the weediest invasive species on Earth. Our society and civilization however is a different kettle of fish. It's like a deteriorating old boat far at sea in a storm with things breaking down faster than they can be repaired. Unsustainable in a word. This is a degree of difference in the point. You are pushing an extreme doomsday position which isn’t supported by any real objective evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 (edited) 9 hours ago, User said: You are pushing an extreme doomsday position which isn’t supported by any real objective evidence. What position? I'm simply describing an unsustainable situation. Civilizations have been collapsing forever as evidenced by history. As for doomsday... just about every other species on Earth will be cheering if we disappear from the scene. I do think a good collapse might give us a bit of breather to. Time to reflect. It's not like I want to go there but I am kind of resigned to it. And if it does happen it would be fitting if its when people who should know better might actually learn something from it. Edited May 5 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 20 hours ago, User said: Again, they have various areas like B and C, and whatnot; it is only one of those areas, I believe, more closely around Jereusluem, that has more blanket prohibition... it is not the entirety of the West Bank. Area C and East Jerusalem make up ~75% of the West Bank. Quote Systemic to what? The point is that where there are close living conditions between Israelis and Palestinians, there is some violence that happens. Its like any other statistic... In America something like 10,000 people die a year falling down stairs. Is that "systemic?" Truly not a serious person if you're comparing random household accident to calculated acts of violence. Quote To the larger point here, the fact that there is some small amount of violence that occurs for some small % of the population, that is hardly evidence of ethnic cleansing. Its simply a matter of the human condition that when people who have generations of hate and angst and religious animosity towards one another are in close proximity that incidents will happen. Yes who hasn't gotten into a dispute with a neighbour that ended with you stealing their house? jfc. Quote https://www.timesofisrael.com/police-demolish-illegal-settler-structures-prompting-outrage-from-coalition-members/ Boy they really stuck their neck out to take down that *checks notes* tent. Also: Quote The demolishment was only the third time that the current government under Netanyahu has removed illegal settler constructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 (edited) 99% of people protesting in these rallies are protesting war itself. the undue suffering of the people of Palestine or for the right of the Palestinian people to determine their own future. Only the alarmist blockheads insist are portraying all of them as pro Hamas. They're college and university students more educated and aware than most of you that Hamas and Netanyahu's govt are obstinate arseholes. Edited May 4 by herbie 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 2 hours ago, herbie said: 99% of people protesting in these rallies are protesting war itself. the undue suffering of the people of Palestine or for the right of the Palestinian people to determine their own future. Only the alarmist blockheads insist are portraying all of them as pro Hamas. They're college and university students more educated and aware than most of you that Hamas and Netanyahu's govt are obstinate arseholes. This is #1 something you have zero ability to prove and #2 completely and obviously wrong just by any casual observation of any of the footage we see on TV based on the chants they say, their signs, their advertisements, their clothing, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 3 minutes ago, User said: This is #1 something you have zero ability to prove and #2 completely and obviously wrong just by any casual observation of any of the footage we see on TV based on the chants they say, their signs, their advertisements, their clothing, etc... I wonder how much atheism plays into the disdain for Judaism? I know I have little use for suffering fools gladly. That said if Judaism and the 2nd coming of Christ had nothing to do with each other I suspect Israel would be pretty much on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 2 hours ago, User said: This is #1 something you have zero ability to prove I don't have to prove the obvious. You have to prove the opposite, and using what you interpreted from what they showed you on TV isn't a good start. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 8 minutes ago, herbie said: I don't have to prove the obvious. You have to prove the opposite, and using what you interpreted from what they showed you on TV isn't a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 18 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: You're wrong about me, and I have not seen anything that backs up your claims about the protests at scale. I already explained why you are biased, because you're using the same methods that anti convoy people used to discredit that movement. I'm taking about picking sides for the demonstration. You have a desperate need to classify politics in a binary way. I can't find anything to base a discussion with you on for this. I just specifically explained to you how I don't see this issue in a binary way and never have and then you completely ignored it and accused me of classifying politics in a binary way, which is absolutely ridiculous and based on no evidence. Do you see me on Team Biden or Team Trump? Do you see me on team Trudeau or Team Poilievre (who I have always despised as a slimy weasel)? Did you see me on Team Convoy or Team Anti-convoy? Absolutely not. I already explained that I agreed with the mandates the convoy were protesting but disagreed with their illegal protest methods and always maintained that the truckers should have been fined and/or arrested. But you have ignored all of this. The same thing should happen to the anti-Israel protestors. Protesting the alleged genocide (which could very well be happening, but a legal investigation needed IMO) is fine, and wanting divestment? Ok sure protest for that if you want, but their methods are against school regulations and the law, including Title VI of the 1964 Civil Rights Act which makes illegal racial/religious discrimination on campuses. They don't own the campus, can't block people from classes, aren't allowed to pitch tents unauthorized, can't put up barricades and physically block people to keep out those with the wrong views or wrong ethnicity, just like the truckers don't own the streets of downtown Ottawa. If Nazis marched down the streets of this country shouting and cheering genocidal antisemitic violence like some of these anti-Israel protestors are, would you accuse someone of being "black and white" for being revolted by it? Disliking Nazis doesn't mean you dislike all Germans. If there were recent German immigrants in Canada in the 1930's and a lot of them were Nazis then yes I would also want all of them who were chanting threatening genocidal Nazi chants deported There is no difference here. None. You want to pin me down as a characture in your own mind, leaving you as "objective". You're the one who is biased here, not me. One thing offends your politically correct sensibilities and the same thing happening by a different group doesn't. That's a you problem, not a me problem. I have consistent ethics regardless of the race, religion, ethnicity, but you don't, and I can say the same about a lot of progressives these days who have double-standards for everyone based on some victim hierarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 16 hours ago, herbie said: 99% of people protesting in these rallies are protesting war itself. the undue suffering of the people of Palestine or for the right of the Palestinian people to determine their own future. Only the alarmist blockheads insist are portraying all of them as pro Hamas. They're college and university students more educated and aware than most of you that Hamas and Netanyahu's govt are obstinate arseholes. From what I have seen, the most common denominator is that the protesters want the universities (colleges) to stop dealing with and divesting themselves from Israel. And you are correct, the want to stop the war. Saw many signs to stop the genocide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted May 5 Author Report Share Posted May 5 17 hours ago, herbie said: 99% of people protesting in these rallies are protesting war itself. the undue suffering of the people of Palestine or for the right of the Palestinian people to determine their own future. Only the alarmist blockheads insist are portraying all of them as pro Hamas. They're college and university students more educated and aware than most of you that Hamas and Netanyahu's govt are obstinate arseholes. Videos of Ottawa protesters cheering when their chant-leader yelled about the glory of Oct 7th laid to rest any notion that the protests aren't pro-terrorism/pro-Hamas. Quote Only the alarmist blockheads insist are portraying all of them as pro Hamas. Not every single protester gets a genocide boner when they talk about the child-murdering done by the Palestinian terrorists on Oct 7th, but the core of those protests is pro-terrorists. Quote They're college and university students more educated and aware than most of you Are they "aliminis" herbie? Alimnuses? Please guess. I love it when yuu try to use big words. Sorry, but here's the thing about college and university students: they're not all geniuses. In fact, it doesn't take much to get into university. Furthermore, not all the protesters at the campuses are even students there. In general, university students are easy prey for religious groups, advocacy groups, etc. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 19 hours ago, herbie said: They're college and university students more educated and aware than most of you that Hamas and Netanyahu's govt are obstinate arseholes. Have you forgotten universities are full of Marxists, Communists, and left wing radical progressives, your favourites. Sort of like your picket line strikers with their baseball bats. Most of these "Palestine protesters may not even be from universities. They are more likely outside agitators and anarchists. Jordan Peterson: Our rotten, rotting universities | National Post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 On 5/1/2024 at 7:44 PM, eyeball said: Israel stole Palestinian land from those that worked and earned it. These people can even produce legal deeds to stolen property. If you abandon that property and leave you don't get to claim it's yours many years later when it's in a new country and you're not a citizen. If they valued that property they should have stayed there or returned much sooner. On 5/1/2024 at 7:44 PM, eyeball said: Theft and dispossession is at the very root of the conflict in the ME - No, religion is. On 5/1/2024 at 9:43 PM, eyeball said: You're unaware of Palestinian deed holders that were never compensated for their property? You have some nerve telling people they don't know about the history of that area. How many of the million Jews expelled from surrounding countries were compensated for their property? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 On 5/2/2024 at 12:02 PM, eyeball said: Bullshit. They stole it. The UN gave it to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 4 hours ago, ExFlyer said: the genocide There is no genocide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 4 hours ago, ExFlyer said: From what I have seen, the most common denominator is that the protesters want the universities (colleges) to stop dealing with and divesting themselves from Israel. And you are correct, the want to stop the war. Saw many signs to stop the genocide. They only want to stop it because Israel is winning. If it was the other way around none of these people would be out demonstrating. Many would be celebrating. On 5/3/2024 at 3:58 PM, Michael Hardner said: 1. The university protests are about Divestment. Again, you are finding a reason to take a side, a knee jerk reaction and rush to judge. None of them have investments in Israel nor in Israeli companies. The protesters can't even name any investments they want the to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 55 minutes ago, User said: There is no genocide. Yeah OK...says you LOL 51 minutes ago, I am Groot said: They only want to stop it because Israel is winning. If it was the other way around none of these people would be out demonstrating. Many would be celebrating. .... Yeah, OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 (edited) 13 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: 1. I just specifically explained to you how I don't see this issue in a binary way and never have and then you completely ignored it ... 2. I already explained that I agreed with the mandates the convoy were protesting but disagreed with their illegal protest methods and always maintained that the truckers should have been fined and/or arrested. 3. ... illegal racial/religious discrimination on campuses. ...If Nazis marched down the streets of this country ... 4. You want to pin me down as a characture in your own mind, leaving you as "objective". You're the one who is biased here, not me. One thing offends your politically correct sensibilities and the same thing happening by a different group doesn't. That's a you problem, not a me problem. I have consistent ethics regardless of the race, religion, ethnicity, but you don't, and I can say the same about a lot of progressives these days who have double-standards for everyone based on some victim hierarchy. 1. You think that the "issue" here is Israel/Palestine but I am talking about the protests. 2. Ok. 3. Again, you are missing the scale. Fine you thought the Convoy was out of bounds but did you think they were Nazis ? 4. And here's the evidence. Because I don't pick a side on the protest, you label me as PC. That's a you problem. You may think you're objective, we all do, but you have to ask yourself how you react to different scenarios and step back a little more. My take is that you don't do that enough, which is where I get my opinion. Edited May 5 by Michael Hardner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 30 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Yeah OK...says you LOL No, says any objective review of the evidence. 30,000 to 40,000 dead, at least 1/3 of whom are Hamas militants targetted in war, with the others as unfortunate collateral deaths because Hamas hides behind their people, out of a population of 2 million, is not a genocide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 (edited) Hamas just fired 10 rockets at a border crossing used to bring humanitarian aid into Gaza. Hamas continues to hold hostages. Looks more like Hamas wants this war to keep on going indefinitely. They get lots of sympathy from the world if it keeps going. I think that is the reason Hamas does what they do. ____________ The question is : Is Hamas willing to lay down all their arms, sign a broad peace agreement to end hostilities toward Israel? Are they willing to disband? Are they will to release all hostages? Edited May 5 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 2 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Yeah OK...says you LOL Yeah, OK. Over 2 million Arabs live in Israel, 21% of the population. They vote and have members from Arab parties in the Knesset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 1 hour ago, User said: No, says any objective review of the evidence. 30,000 to 40,000 dead, at least 1/3 of whom are Hamas militants targetted in war, with the others as unfortunate collateral deaths because Hamas hides behind their people, out of a population of 2 million, is not a genocide. So, that is not genocide??? Yeah, says you LOL 7 minutes ago, Aristides said: Over 2 million Arabs live in Israel, 21% of the population. They vote and have members from Arab parties in the Knesset. Meaning what? 8 minutes ago, Aristides said: Over 2 million Arabs live in Israel, 21% of the population. They vote and have members from Arab parties in the Knesset. 3.7 million in the USA??/ So what?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 7 hours ago, ExFlyer said: From what I have seen, the most common denominator is that the protesters want the universities (colleges) to stop dealing with and divesting themselves from Israel. Which isn't even much of an ask. They should already involve themselves in ethical investments as they're supposedly setting public and educational examples and not just financial entities. Are they investing in Russia too? 4 hours ago, blackbird said: Have you forgotten universities are full of Marxists, Communists, and left wing radical progressives, your favourites. No I'm well aware they're more educated then the ploughboys, trolls and bible thumpers that infest this forum. 6 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Videos of Ottawa protesters cheering when their chant-leader yelled about the glory of Oct 7th laid to rest any notion that the protests aren't pro-terrorism/pro-Hamas. That's you. You sealed your brain off completely to every protestor interviewed and only remembered that. And choose to ignore the major story of one you describer being arrested for hate crimes. Which you oppose with your free speech bullshit while demanding the legal penalties be applied to those with opinions you don't like. Mr. Hypocrite. 3 hours ago, I am Groot said: They only want to stop it because Israel is winning. Blabbing for months now about invading Rafah and still have their thumbs up their arse. Hey Adolph we're building up all those landing craft offshore at Normandy, if ya don't give up we'll invade any day now.... that's got to be the dumbest comment I've heard about the reasons behind the protests. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 3 hours ago, I am Groot said: If you abandon that property and leave you don't get to claim it's yours many years later... Unless you're Jewish... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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