User Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 34 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: So, that is not genocide??? No, it's not. Not by any objective review of the facts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 3 hours ago, I am Groot said: How many of the million Jews expelled from surrounding countries were compensated for their property? Why is it that two wrongs always make a right in the right-wing-o-sphere 3 hours ago, I am Groot said: The UN gave it to them. Okay so the UN stole it 🙄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 On 5/4/2024 at 11:54 AM, Michael Hardner said: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5hY2FzdC5jb20vcHVibGljL3Nob3dzLzYzMGNlYWUzM2ZlMzc0MDAxMjI4MjhjNg/episode/NjYzMzE1YmY5ZGFhNDgwMDEyMzcxNWZj?ep=14 The first part of this podcast is a great takedown on media coverage, and then the host and guest do a fantastic job of showing how reasonable people can disagree on the issues, and do a positive exploration of how it can be discussed better. Just a question, if some gang entered your town and killed well over 1000 people some of which you knew personally, would you be willing to sit down and have a reasonable discussion with the terrorist you killed them...I mean this is not some neighborly disagreement, this was Hamas declaring war in no uncertain terms...This was an act of pure hate...killing unarmed civilians, I'd be curious on what you or your podcast members think they would talk about... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 On 5/4/2024 at 1:52 PM, ExFlyer said: Who ever "casually dismiss what Hamas did"?? We all agree the attack on 7 October was a Hamas incursion. What people are upset about and protesting is the complete Israeli bombing and invasion for the past 7 months in retaliation. You need to be a bit clearer if you do not want to be questioned. I think it is pretty clear on this forum WHO has dismissed what hamas did...and instead use deflection on what Israel is doing now... 7 Oct was nothing more than a massive terrorist attack, carried out by cowards of Hamas, and regular Palestinian people who joined the fray...They attacked Israel soft targets unarmed women, children...That's got to be something to be proud about, or on the other side of the coin harden others decisions that Hamas and those that support them have to be eliminated by ANY MEANS. You and I do not get to tell israel how long they can hand out retribution for this cowardly attack...we have no skin in this game...Neither do most of the protestors here in Canada, Israel set out goals before there invasion of Gaza city, one was to totally destroy Hamas as a terrorist organization, to kill or capture all of its members, but also to dismantle Hamas capability to wage terrorist activities against Israel... Thats what is happening right now.... Do you think Hamas did not already know what the israelis reaction was going to be before the outset of their terrorist attack's......And yet the did it anyway...how can you explain that ? These attacks were to provoke Israel into just this situation knowing that Hamas had already won on the propaganda war...And the globe would would shout Israel down... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, User said: No, it's not. Not by any objective review of the facts. Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. "a campaign of genocide" O frack, that is what is happening in Gaza???? 11 minutes ago, Army Guy said: I think it is pretty clear on this forum WHO has dismissed what hamas did...and instead use deflection on what Israel is doing now... 7 Oct was nothing more than a massive terrorist attack, carried out by cowards of Hamas, and regular Palestinian people who joined the fray...They attacked Israel soft targets unarmed women, children...That's got to be something to be proud about, or on the other side of the coin harden others decisions that Hamas and those that support them have to be eliminated by ANY MEANS. You and I do not get to tell israel how long they can hand out retribution for this cowardly attack...we have no skin in this game...Neither do most of the protestors here in Canada, Israel set out goals before there invasion of Gaza city, one was to totally destroy Hamas as a terrorist organization, to kill or capture all of its members, but also to dismantle Hamas capability to wage terrorist activities against Israel... Thats what is happening right now.... Do you think Hamas did not already know what the israelis reaction was going to be before the outset of their terrorist attack's......And yet the did it anyway...how can you explain that ? These attacks were to provoke Israel into just this situation knowing that Hamas had already won on the propaganda war...And the globe would would shout Israel down... Yeah, OK. 🤦 What are you wanting me to say?? Oh wait, let me say it again. Nuke the entire region, turn it into a wasteland, be radioactive for generations, then there will be peace. Edited May 5 by ExFlyer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 On 5/4/2024 at 4:48 PM, herbie said: 99% of people protesting in these rallies are protesting war itself. the undue suffering of the people of Palestine or for the right of the Palestinian people to determine their own future. Only the alarmist blockheads insist are portraying all of them as pro Hamas. They're college and university students more educated and aware than most of you that Hamas and Netanyahu's govt are obstinate arseholes. 99 % of these protestors don't have a clue what these issues pertains to...WHO is keeping palestinians from determining their own future...they as a people have had 1 /2 dozen or more chances to declare their own state and they have been governing them selfs in Gaza since 2005... your right not all of them are pro hamas....Most but not all...Yes they are university and collage kids, with tones of education, but Zero life experience...and if education is the ruling factor, and they are always right why is it that this forum or any other does not require the poster to post how much education they have, why is it that those with higher education just don't dictate to us pions how things work... There are plenty of smart people on this very forum, but even they are not always right about every issue So the education background is not the end all to be all... Some of the smartest people i know, are the dumbest as well in most other areas of their lives... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 22 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. "a campaign of genocide" O frack, that is what is happening in Gaza???? Yeah, OK. 🤦 What are you wanting me to say?? Oh wait, let me say it again. Nuke the entire region, turn it into a wasteland, be radioactive for generations, then there will be peace. With all the ordnance that has been dropped todate, and they only managed to kill 20,000 palestinians civilians...if your statement was true they are either bad at their jobs "bringing bombes on target" or it is a not a true statement. Israel has the means to wipe gaza off the face of the map in mere days...if genocide was the goal... What do i want you to say....Army is the number one element in the forces, I've always wished i was in the Army... Since that is not going to happen, wait a minute maybe ....how about answer some of the questions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 If so many people and so many Hamas supporters have been killed in Gaza, why does Hamas not agree to stop fighting and sign onto a peace deal and release the hostages? How would these protesters explain that? Why don't these protesters demand Hamas stop the war? Of course if Hamas is not willing to surrender and just fired twelve rockets toward an aid crossing point into Gaza, should anybody be surprised that Israel will keep fighting? Netanyahu said today on Holocaust Remembrance that no matter what world leaders say, Israel will defend itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 (edited) The U.S. police are arresting protesters and occupiers all across the U.S. Meanwhile Canada does very little, but allows the antisemitic protesters to carry on with their antisemitic hate speech, intimidation and harassment. Edited May 5 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 (edited) 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: With all the.... What do i want you to say....Army is the number one element in the forces, I've always wished i was in the Army... ... Just for you, Army is the number one oldest element in the Military, but, i never wished I was in the Army. I liked the look from above and from my hotel room Edited May 6 by ExFlyer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. You think that the "issue" here is Israel/Palestine but I am talking about the protests. 2. Ok. 3. Again, you are missing the scale. Fine you thought the Convoy was out of bounds but did you think they were Nazis ? 4. And here's the evidence. Because I don't pick a side on the protest, you label me as PC. That's a you problem. You may think you're objective, we all do, but you have to ask yourself how you react to different scenarios and step back a little more. My take is that you don't do that enough, which is where I get my opinion. 1. Why do you keep misconstruing my arguments in all of your replies and creating strawmen? Please stop this. I'm talking about the protests too. 3. Since virtually none of the convoy folks were chanting Nazi slogans or brandishing Nazi symbols etc then generally no. Were a few of them Nazis? Probably. I think I saw one or 2 people with Confederate flags, though they were in a pickup truck, not a big-rig, so probably outside agitators. Were there some far-right folks among the convoy? Yes i'm sure there was. That one guy sounded like a nut, and they stopped some guns at the border. 4. I'm objectively against pro-genocide pro-terrorism supporters and racial harassment/discrimination. Are you against those things? Or would you prefer to stay silent about them? You seem to have a strong opinion on my comments, but no opinion of protestors supporting and calling for more Oct 7 events and ethnic genocide. But go ahead, sit on the fence and claim "objectively". Would you have done that during the civil rights movement in the 60's too or during the WWII holocaust? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: This was an act of pure hate...killing unarmed civilians, I'm thinking the brutality was a calculated tactic that was pure politics. I've had no reason to believe ordinary Gazan's going about their lives and business on Oct 6 had any idea whatsoever about what was about to happen. In their names as so many people around here maintain? I've never believed it. This was orchestrated by Iran, Russia and China. I wouldn't be surprised to find there's many within Hamas who never a clue either. This is who lit the match in the Middle East — and who poured the fuel https://www.euronews.com/2024/04/30/this-is-who-lit-the-match-in-the-middle-east-and-who-poured-the-fuel Of course sowing greater divisiveness amongst Western democracies is a bonus and probably also uppermost in the minds of Russia, China and Iran. Democracy apparently sucks at the long game. Probably explains why 70% of the human race now live under the thumbs of authoritarians. Edited May 6 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 4 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. "a campaign of genocide" O frack, that is what is happening in Gaza???? I already told you what was happening. They are at war with Hamas and executing military attacks on Hamas. Their aim is not to destroy the Palestinian people. If they wanted to do that, they could have killed all of them in the first few weeks. Israel has enough military capacity to line up their arm and march across Gaza shooting everyone and anything that moves that their planes didn't blow up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 6 hours ago, herbie said: No I'm well aware they're more educated then the ploughboys, trolls and bible thumpers that infest this forum. You think your way of thinking is good for you. I doubt it very much. You need to be reading the Bible, especially the gospels to begin with and be born again. Unfortunately, unless God gives you the grace, I doubt anything I say will change your mind. About all I can say is you are on a self-destructive road and you need to change. God would give you wisdom and knowledge if you let him and ask him. Don't waste your life away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Michael Hardner Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 10 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: 1. Why do you keep misconstruing my arguments in all of your replies and creating strawmen? Please stop this. I'm talking about the protests too. 2. Since virtually none of the convoy folks were chanting Nazi slogans or brandishing Nazi symbols etc then generally no. Were a few of them Nazis? Probably. I think I saw one or 2 people with Confederate flags, though they were in a pickup truck, not a big-rig, so probably outside agitators. Were there some far-right folks among the convoy? Yes i'm sure there was. That one guy sounded like a nut, and they stopped some guns at the border. 3. I'm objectively against pro-genocide pro-terrorism supporters and racial harassment/discrimination. Are you against those things? 4. Or would you prefer to stay silent about them? You seem to have a strong opinion on my comments, but no opinion of protestors supporting and calling for more Oct 7 events and ethnic genocide. But go ahead, sit on the fence and claim "objectively". Would you have done that during the civil rights movement in the 60's too or during the WWII holocaust? 1. Ok. I read back and you kind of went back and forth. I'll stand corrected. It's the protests. 2. "Virtually none" ... were Nazis ... you say of the convoy folks. On the Israel protest: "These folks cheering don't believe in liberal democracy or basic human rights, they're Islamofascist Nazis. " " a lot of them chanting 'From the river..." "If Nazis marched down the streets of this country shouting and cheering genocidal antisemitic violence" "Most don't want peace and NEVER have" "I'm sure there's some actual peace-loving protestors in there somewhere. But anyone who chants "From the river to the sea..." is a genocidal ethnic-cleansing sh!tbag, and that's a lot of them. " Your stance on the two protests is markedly different, and you are relying on quantifying the nutjob contingent to justify that... but different ways. I posted a podcast that laid out that it's exactly the same problem with both sets of reporting: you can't quantify what is happening to scale. Justin Ling points out also that Counter protesters beat protesters and used racial insults but that it was under reported. My point to you: you don't have to pick a side. 3. Of course. 4. I have strong opinions about your comments because I care what you think. You're not part of a mass mob, you're a public commenter. There's no doubt we are roughly on the same side, but I stand by my point that you are slagging the protest - you are. From the comments in 2. And to me, it's a double-standard because all the same reasons people wrote off the Convoy are happening here also. But ok, maybe I am looking to closely at the rhetoric (again, comments in 2) and it's making me not understand what you're saying on the whole. I went back to look at your comments on the Convoy and while you were decidedly lighter on them but again, that's rhetoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 10 hours ago, User said: I already told you what was happening. ... Oh yea. User, the definitive source...NOT!!! User, Trump Social, Fox, same shit all losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 39 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Oh yea. User, the definitive source...NOT!!! User, Trump Social, Fox, same shit all losers. So, running out of any ability to even pretend to be able to respond with any kind of real argument... insults is all you have. I will be here when you are ready to admit you are not only wrong, but just pushing Hamas propaganda for them. I do have a question though, since I am new here, have you ever focused any of your angst or ire against Hamas or the Palestinian people for their part in the atrocity on October 7th? For Hamas tactics of hiding behind their people? For any of Hamas role in the tragedy they have caused and continue to cause for their people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 1 hour ago, User said: So, running out of any ability to even pretend to be able to respond with any kind of real argument... insults is all you have. I.... Respond to what? Nonsense? Not worth my time "User, Trump Social, Fox, same shit all losers. " an insult....or fact?? You decide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 5 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Respond to what? Nonsense? Not worth my time "User, Trump Social, Fox, same shit all losers. " an insult....or fact?? You decide Not true at all. Here you are on this online forum, with all the time in the world to respond as you have been and continue to do so even now. You are incapable of offering a well-thought-out and articulate argument to back up the garbage claims you make. Has nothing to do with the time. I noticed you ignored the question of whether you condemned Hamas before I got here... should I just guess no? That you are all in with Hamas? Did you cheer them on October 7th for their rape, torture, and targeting of families and innocent people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 5 minutes ago, User said: That you are all in with Hamas? Did you cheer them on October 7th for their rape, torture, and targeting of families and innocent people? $10 says it was Iranian Revolutionary Guards embedded with Hamas who committed the rapes. It's more their style. There's little reason to believe ordinary Palestinians or Gazans had anything to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 37 minutes ago, eyeball said: $10 says it was Iranian Revolutionary Guards embedded with Hamas who committed the rapes. It's more their style. There's little reason to believe ordinary Palestinians or Gazans had anything to do with it. I said Hamas. Can you not condemn them either or are you going to play this game as if they were not responsible for October 7th atrocities? Hell, even the biased UN had to quasi-admit it: "A UN envoy says there are ‘reasonable grounds’ to believe Hamas committed sexual violence on Oct. 7" https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-un-rape-oct7-hamas-gaza-fe1a35767a63666fe4dc1c97e397177e However, ordinary Palestinians/Gazans were out in the streets cheering Hamas on, celebrating them on their return with Hostages, publically berating the hostages/dead bodies of Israelis being drug through the streets. Ordinary Palestinians/Gazans were going across the border to take advantage of the chaos to loot. "New footage shows Hamas’s onslaught on the southern Kibbutz Be’eri on October 7, as well as dozens of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip joining the terrorists and looting the community." https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/new-footage-shows-dozens-of-hamas-terrorists-entering-kibbutz-beeri/ Here is your ordinary folks in Gaza... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. Your stance on the two protests is markedly different, and you are relying on quantifying the nutjob contingent to justify that... but different ways. I posted a podcast that laid out that it's exactly the same problem with both sets of reporting: you can't quantify what is happening to scale. Justin Ling points out also that Counter protesters beat protesters and used racial insults but that it was under reported. My point to you: you don't have to pick a side. 2. I have strong opinions about your comments because I care what you think. You're not part of a mass mob, you're a public commenter. There's no doubt we are roughly on the same side, but I stand by my point that you are slagging the protest - you are. From the comments in 2. And to me, it's a double-standard because all the same reasons people wrote off the Convoy are happening here also. But ok, maybe I am looking to closely at the rhetoric (again, comments in 2) and it's making me not understand what you're saying on the whole. I went back to look at your comments on the Convoy and while you were decidedly lighter on them but again, that's rhetoric. My general stance on the 2020 indigenous railroad blockades, trucker convoy, anti-Israel protests, and all other protests are consistent: illegal actions during protests should not be tolerated and the laws should be enforced, including fines/arrests if they won't stop. My level of personal support for their causes is irrelevant to their breaking the law. The reason why i'm the harshest on these anti-Israel protestors is because there's quite a number of them all over the US and Canada on video chanting and cheering support for genocide, mass murder/rape/hostage-taking, and ethnic cleansing as well as engaging in ethnic discrimination. This is not comparable to being illegally parked and honking horns to annoy people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted May 6 Author Report Share Posted May 6 20 hours ago, herbie said: That's you. You sealed your brain off completely to every protestor interviewed and only remembered that. And choose to ignore the major story of one you describer being arrested for hate crimes. Which you oppose with your free speech bullshit while demanding the legal penalties be applied to those with opinions you don't like. Mr. Hypocrite. Are you on glue? 1. Most of that was unintelligible, 2. when all of those people cheered for Oct 7th, they just proved that they are pro-genocide. This whole scenario that's playing out right now is a result of SEVENTY FIVE YEARS OF ISLAMIC ATTEMPTS TO COMMIT GENOCIDE GAINST ISRAEL. It's ongoing. Groups like Hamas, which you openly pimp, are not shy about talking of genocide against Israel. You just block it out because your confirmation bias makes islamic state look open-minded. Do you think that muslims haven't been trying to commit genocide for the last 75 years? If so, you're either ignorant or stupid, most likely a mix of both. Then again, there's also the possibility that you'll just lie when you answre that. In any event, I don't expect to see anything intelligent in your reply. Quote Blabbing for months now about invading Rafah and still have their thumbs up their arse. Hey Adolph we're building up all those landing craft offshore at Normandy, if ya don't give up we'll invade any day now.... that's got to be the dumbest comment I've heard about the reasons behind the protests. God you're dumb. The difference here is that Israel will win regardless of how loud and long they advertise their intent to go in. What they're doing is letting the whole world know that the civilians in Rafah have had every opportunity to get out of the way. Anyone who dies is a victim of Hamas, not Israel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 6 Report Share Posted May 6 14 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: 1. My level of personal support for their causes is irrelevant to their breaking the law. 2. The reason why i'm the harshest on these anti-Israel protestors is because there's quite a number of them all over the US and Canada on video chanting and cheering support for genocide, mass murder/rape/hostage-taking, and ethnic cleansing as well as engaging in ethnic discrimination. This is not comparable to being illegally parked and honking horns to annoy people. 1. 2. Ok. That's honest. Well I invite you to listen to my podcast link, where the misdeeds of the other side are laid out. And none of it matters to the points raised, except that a lot of people are working to discredit both sides. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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