'Utterly repulsive': Canadians divided on Justin Trudeau's $650M aid to Ukraine

[myata]

6 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Based on false pretense.

You're getting too much of the lying mob's lies. This is your chance to retain your own brain. It will not last forever.

6 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

There is no such thing as a gentle invasion.

Only because you're getting blind to the difference. Saddam had WMD and used them against his own people. He was under an obligation to allow the inspections and he violated it multiple times. Operation in Iraq was authorized by a UN resolution. Coalition never targeted civilians deliberately as Russia did multiple times and continues to do. War crimes were investigated and guilty brought to justice while Russia is run by war criminals, just like Nazi Germany. These are the facts.

Don't go over the rails of sanity and reality with the pathologically lying mob. It may not be easy to come back.

[Perspektiv]

13 hours ago, myata said:

Saddam had WMD

So Colin Powell admitting to faulting intelligence is a lie?

George W Bush stating in a speech that this was a direct threat to us, vs Sadam Husseins people, is a lie?

Having nukes or illegal weapons justifies invasion? At all times? Why hasn't North Korea been invaded?

 

[Nationalist]

13 hours ago, myata said:

You're getting too much of the lying mob's lies. This is your chance to retain your own brain. It will not last forever.

Only because you're getting blind to the difference. Saddam had WMD and used them against his own people. He was under an obligation to allow the inspections and he violated it multiple times. Operation in Iraq was authorized by a UN resolution. Coalition never targeted civilians deliberately as Russia did multiple times and continues to do. War crimes were investigated and guilty brought to justice while Russia is run by war criminals, just like Nazi Germany. These are the facts.

Don't go over the rails of sanity and reality with the pathologically lying mob. It may not be easy to come back.

Oh myata...just to clarify something...Saddam used weapons he bought from none other than Don Rumsfeld.

[blackbird]

17 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

So Colin Powell admitting to faulting intelligence is a lie?

George W Bush stating in a speech that this was a direct threat to us, vs Sadam Husseins people, is a lie?

Having nukes or illegal weapons justifies invasion? At all times? Why hasn't North Korea been invaded?

 

This has nothing much to do with the subject of this thread.  You should start another thread on Iraq or whatever if you want to talk about that.

[myata]

33 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

So Colin Powell admitting to faulting intelligence is a lie?

Nice try, but it has nothing to do with Putin's brutal invasion. Operation of the coalition authorized by the UN in Iraq is a completely different topic, and only in Putin's stooges talking points the two are anyhow related. What do you not understand here? Why do you keep bringing it up? How a normal human being with a working brain couldn't get it? If you're ready to part with independent critical processing of information, of course it's your decision. There are consequences though, always. Germany learned at an enormous cost. Any number of sad people are trying to learn and remember on their own sad lessons.

I only wish that the crowd that likes to repeat mindlessly tyrants and thugs agendas could have it their way, that they desire deeply in their strange minds - only in their own, alternative universe totally detached from ours. Love dictator thugs? Pet and kiss them, repeat their lies? Call them "geniuses" and "very honorable"? Sure. Have a dictator for yourself and no less that two or three generations. Crying? Asking for help? Why should anyone normal worry, you choose it yourself, consciously and voluntarily. You even were warned God knows how many times but insisted to have your heart's desire. Yes have it, all to yourself hope it'll make and keep you happy.

It looks very much like this is the only way they could learn. And even then, far from assured.

Edited October 3, 2023 by myata

[herbie]

21 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Canadians have proven time after time they don't have patients for a long and dragged out war...

from where do you draw that idea?

20 hours ago, taxme said:

I heard is that the Nazi dictator in Ottawa

I thought he was a Communist dictator.

 

20 hours ago, taxme said:

While many Canadians are struggling to try and make ends meet, this arse hole in Ottawa gives money to Ukraine willy-nilly.

Maybe Putin will send you a tent to pitch on the sidewalk. With all the other mentally challenged.

[Perspektiv]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

This has nothing much to do with the subject of this thread.  You should start another thread on Iraq or whatever if you want to talk about that.

Division on participation and funding in a war, sounds like the Iraq war.

[myata]

Iraq war isn't the same as Ukraine war. The word is the same. The meaning is vastly, lightyears apart. But you wouldn't know and notice. OK then, it's as simple as this: can an armed robber barge into your house, take what they like, beat, rape and kill someone on the way (Heaven forbid, but it's true in the situation that is being discussed, a matter of fact) and then the next house, if only, attention: they are strong enough, have a lot of guns.

If you choose to pretend dumb, the answer has to be obvious: yes. If the police can arrest the robber then the robber can attack you. Same thing and complete moral equivalence. So yes, is it? All the millennia of the civilization for nothing, yes?

But how could you get out of this obvious conundrum? Playing dumb is well, dumb. Or you'll have to admit that robbing and killing is wrong and needs to be stopped. So, which one? No, can't run away from the obvious.

[Moonlight Graham]

I am shocked that people on twitter are arguing about a political issue.  SHOCKED

[Perspektiv]

33 minutes ago, myata said:

OK then, it's as simple as this: can an armed robber barge into your house, take what they like, beat, rape and kill someone on the way

Different, situation, sure.

I see Ukraine like the above.

I see the US invading Iraq as a police raid where one party is perceived as guilty, but opening fire and hitting innocent civilians, only to find no drugs in the house.

Your hunch was correct, due to their record, but the raid was a mistake. The obtuse use of force and needless losses of life, were a mistake.

Heck, still on point, now you have killed innocents, but also took out a gang leader, albeit with faulty evidence. You rejoice anyways, because he was horrible, but you then created a power vacuum in the streets that killed hundreds more. Streets are no safer, those who you stated you were protected are in fact in more danger, so the basis for the raid looks all the more sketchy.

Legally, both are vastly different, but nonetheless the parallels can be drawn.

You're saying Sadam had to die, because he had weapons and was a bad dude. Okay, so on point....why is Jong Un still breathing?

You keep questioning my intelligence, but can't read between lines.

This had nothing to do with weapons, just like the Ukraine war didn't start once tanks were parked at their border.

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

from where do you draw that idea?

 

History, you should try reading some of it... Cyprus, Bosnia , Afghanistan, Somalia, you could even mention Korea, Germany, there is more but I think you get the idea. 

[herbie]

l

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

History, you should try reading some of it... Cyprus, Bosnia , Afghanistan, Somalia, you could even mention Korea, Germany, there is more but I think you get the idea. 

Actually I don't. Cypres, Bosnia, Somalia were peacekeeping short term actions, Afghanistan we had the brains to walk away from and we were in Korea and Germany from beginning to end. Cyprus was a peacekeeping stint most of us think we overstayed. Afghanistan's the only recent one we got involved in the actual war.

Our "involvement" in Ukraine is only training and supply, and getting tired of that is pretty exclusive to surrender monkeys and Russian trolls.

Edited October 4, 2023 by herbie

[myata]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Legally, both are vastly different, but nonetheless the parallels can be drawn.

I fail to see any parallels here. One is as clear cut case of a brutal criminal aggression as it will ever get. Saddam made some historic claims in Kuwait. Hitler used a false flag attack as a pretext. Russia recognized territorial integrity of Ukraine in multiple treaties I can count a few off the top of my head. The Charter of UN prohibits aggression. There's nothing in common between these cases. Compare Ukraine to Hitler's attack on Poland or Saddam's on Kuwait there may be commonalities.

I suspect the reason you're trying to connect them because you may have heard it somewhere. Where? What does it mean? Were it the same sources that called Putin - Hitler of today "genius", and Jong Un, a brutal totalitarian dictator, "very honorable"? Can one claim to defend "freedom" while petting and caving in to totalitarian dictator thugs? What kind of "freedom" could it be?

It's all in the plain sight. See and read it for what you see and understand not the lies the mob that cares nothing about truth and freedom is peddling.

[Perspektiv]

9 hours ago, myata said:

fail to see any parallels here

Both wars were fought on false pretense.

Russia portraying themselves as victims and even calling it a special military operation, to mask the true intent of the land grab.

The US, albeit "legally" in Iraq, were also there under false pretense. WMD, per Bush. What they advertised the war for, turned out to be false. Removing Sadam from power was also mentioned, but certainly wouldn't justify the exorbitant death toll.

There was no direct threat to the US without the WMD. In fact, once they took out Hussein, ISIS became more of a headache to them, than  the stability Husseins iron fisted rule did.

Based on your assessment you're for the war in Iraq, regardless of cost, both human and financial.

That war was a catastrophic mistake, and the costs didn't justify it, with hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead, and thousands of US soldiers killed, many beheaded on live TV.

Not sure what your criteria for brutal war is, but this certainly fit the bill.

You're acting as if the US didn't commit numerous war crimes, themselves, such as murder and rape. Heck, even gang rape, at times even of children.

The media stuffs this down, and brings a magnifying glass on Russia. 

We can agree to disagree, as I think both wars were preventable and should have never happened.

[myata]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

We can agree to disagree, as I think both wars were preventable and should have never happened.

You are being dishonest here. Saddam refused the inspections and nobody could tell for certain if he still had them or not at the time the decision was made. I did not support it, but it had a rationale, both ethical and legal. Putin's war is as clear example of a brutal, unprovoked aggression as one will ever know, theoretically. The connection is superficial. I'm not going to comment on this aspect here.

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, myata said:

but it had a rationale

No it did not.

Its based on a lie. Why wage war on Iraq, and not North Korea who pose a greater threat to the US with far more dangerous of an arsenal? Sadam was more threatening? How? Like, literally. How?

This had nothing to do with what they stated, or they would have waged far more wars.

You go to war not to save others. You go to war to protect your interests. You don't spend billions or trillions to help others. War isn't charity. Its business. Big business.

The US have no interests in NK. 

Iraq used to trade oil, as the world's 2nd greatest producer of it at the time, for USD. They were a member of OPEC.

Iran soon followed. Both preferred to trade for Euro dollars, instead. 

Hussein was far more public about this, and wanted to very directly challenge and insult the US. He even started to trade with non US companies, further slapping the US.

More countries following suit would have crippled the US economy. 

Like I said. You need to read between the lines.

Tough talk on Iraq and soft talk on NK don't pass the sniff test.

As if the US would publicly wage war to take control of Iraq and inserting a puppet regime, because the prior one had become too unpredictable for business. This doesn't get you approval.

You must make a claim, and obtain approval first.

WMD and Husseins scoffing at the accusations was perfect. Ratchet up the fear mongering, and war becomes the only option.

Stop talking about North Korea threatening to nuke the US. Thats different! Tough talk here is reckless somehow.

This country having a chance of such weapons, means a portion of it must be wiped from the earth.

Yeah, okay.

Just because you were smarter and more strategic in how you waged war, doesn't make it any better to proceed with such an invasion.

[Army Guy]

16 hours ago, herbie said:

l

Actually I don't. Cypres, Bosnia, Somalia were peacekeeping short term actions, Afghanistan we had the brains to walk away from and we were in Korea and Germany from beginning to end. Cyprus was a peacekeeping stint most of us think we overstayed. Afghanistan's the only recent one we got involved in the actual war.

Our "involvement" in Ukraine is only training and supply, and getting tired of that is pretty exclusive to surrender monkeys and Russian trolls.

We left Cyprus, after more than 15 plus years becasue we got tired of doing that mission, so we could participate in something else, we left before the mission was completed, we gave up...there are troops in Cyprus still today why is that ?

Bosnia was once again over 10 plus years in the making, once again we got tired of the mission and left before it was finished.... we gave up, and went home before the mission was completed...

Somalia was a goat f*uck from the start, we ended that becasue it was a political disaster not becasue the mission was successful...instead we watched thousands of Somalia's starve to death on the TV...

Afghanistan we left becasue Canadians got tired of watching it on TV... Canadians lost interest in this conflict by year 6...and with it our military lost funding to continue it...in other words you gave up, and left the Afghanis people hanging...and we are still doing it today....Most of that conflict came out of the military's budget...with very little help from the federal government...

Korea we left as soon as the fighting stopped could not wait to get out of there, we left the clean up to the Koreans and the US...Same with Germany we had promised to maintain 2 brigade units, we cut that down to 1 and then during cost cutting measures we close it for good we cut and run becasue of a few dollars... 

Our involvement in Ukraine is made up of sacrificing military budget for the most part , yes the government has contributed funding for rebuilding but for the most part everything is coming our of the military, be it equipment, of funding...And once again we are at the bottom of the assistance to Ukraine list, when it comes down to NATO countries...we give just enough so not to call attention to ourselves...

You should read some of that history...

[taxme]

On 10/3/2023 at 12:21 PM, herbie said:

from where do you draw that idea?

I thought he was a Communist dictator.

 

Maybe Putin will send you a tent to pitch on the sidewalk. With all the other mentally challenged.

From people that I have talked. Many have aid that there should be no Canadian tax dollars going to a Nazi corrupt government in Ukraine. I can agree with them on that. There are Canadians in need in this country and this clown in Ottawa keeps giving tax dollars away to foreign countries like he thinks that it is his tax dollars to blow. Do you think that  Canadians should be giving our tax dollars to a corrupt Ukraine government? We have an housing crisis in Canada. Hello? 

The clown in Ottawa is a communist at heart, although he does show that he has some Nazism in him. After all, the clown in Ottawa does support the Nazi Zelensky in Ukraine, by giving Zelensky some of our tax dollars, does he not?  

If Putin did send me a tent, I would use it to go camping. I personally believe that you are mentally challenged. ?

[PIK]

On 10/2/2023 at 4:09 AM, CdnFox said:

Some of those tweets are pretty strong.

There's no doubt about one thing - justin AWAYS finds a way to divide canadians, and this is no exception.  A lot of people really believe in the support and feel it's a important part of keeping russia in line.  Others think maybe we should buy food for our people first, or get the first nations drinking water, or the like.

I think this is yet one more thing that can go on the ever growing pile of things Trudeau managed to divide us over

A trillion dollars later and some natives still dont have clean water, that's because of chiefs robbing their own people.

2 minutes ago, taxme said:

From people that I have talked. Many have aid that there should be no Canadian tax dollars going to a Nazi corrupt government in Ukraine. I can agree with them on that. There are Canadians in need in this country and this clown in Ottawa keeps giving tax dollars away to foreign countries like he thinks that it is his tax dollars to blow. Do you think that  Canadians should be giving our tax dollars to a corrupt Ukraine government? We have an housing crisis in Canada. Hello? 

The clown in Ottawa is a communist at heart, although he does show that he has some Nazism in him. After all, the clown in Ottawa does support the Nazi Zelensky in Ukraine, by giving Zelensky some of our tax dollars, does he not?  

If Putin did send me a tent, I would use it to go camping. I personally believe that you are mentally challenged. ?

Little over the top. 

[taxme]

11 minutes ago, PIK said:

A trillion dollars later and some natives still dont have clean water, that's because of chiefs robbing their own people.

Little over the top. 

So, what has the clown in Ottawa done about it? SWEET NOTHING. The clown in Ottawa still gives the native Indian chiefs more tax dollars to blow, and the clown still does not do anything about the chiefs stealing all the money. 

There is nothing over the top when it comes to that clown in Ottawa that has pretty much destroyed what once was a great British and European country called Canada. The clown is trying to destroy all things Canadian by bringing in millions of 3rd world people to change and destroy our culture, heritage and way of life. You are way over the top to not to think and see so. ?

[herbie]

On 10/4/2023 at 10:02 AM, Army Guy said:

You should read some of that history...

I do, and so should you. None of those were wars, they were missions. A mission involves an eventual end. Only Afghanistan involved going in to fight.
Ukraine is clear Russian aggression and expansionism, we can't just sit back and watch. Nor should we kowtow with Munich like appeasement just because lots of Russian speakers live in areas that are not part of Russia - we've watched that happen too much already.

[herbie]

25 minutes ago, PIK said:

A trillion dollars later and some natives still dont have clean water, that's because of chiefs robbing their own people.

WTF has you racist attitude got to do with aid to Ukraine? Or are you simply showing off how abhorrent you can be?

[Army Guy]

49 minutes ago, herbie said:

I do, and so should you. None of those were wars, they were missions. A mission involves an eventual end. Only Afghanistan involved going in to fight.
Ukraine is clear Russian aggression and expansionism, we can't just sit back and watch. Nor should we kowtow with Munich like appeasement just because lots of Russian speakers live in areas that are not part of Russia - we've watched that happen too much already.

I guess you have never been on a peace making or peace keeping mission, and why is it a military mission, glad you asked skippy, becasue you may have to use force... in Bosnia, we had the Medak pocket (it was just in the media a few weeks ago, read the CDS story...when they give you rules of engagement, and real bullets and a clear mandate to keep the peace even it means using force that is conflict. If there was not threat of force why not send in police officers...becasue we use tanks and IFV's to keep the peace via by force if it is nessicary. You really need to read a few books...

Cyprus required the Canadian airborne Regt to do a combat jump, into the middle of the Greeks and turks to stop the fighting , those troops engaged both sides, not with blankets and teddy bears but real bullets....those that died are in the airborne hall rememberance at CFB Petawawa, in the military museum, and also in the parachute packing hall in CFB Trenton... and in the Military museum in Ottawa That was a UN mission, with guns and shit...

Missions don't end until their is a resolution...hence why Cyprus, Bosnia, Kosovo had troops in them for years after we left...we left becasue Canadians and politicians grew tired of them, and packed it in,  and left the mission in a lerch...as we also do...

I know what Ukraine is I've been to dozens of these places like Ukraine in my life time, and we have been contributing very small amounts compare to all the other NATO countries, don't fool yourself...when small countries like Belgium have left us in the dust we really have not earned the right to brag... We have the capacity to give much more but we have chosen not to...

Why not give them all our tanks, they needed to be replace like 10 years ago...and yet we have donated a really small number...might have to do with they are all broken...becasue no one has bought spare parts...opps   same could be said about a lot of weapons systems...we have given them junk, becasue for the most part that is all we have to give...You can puff your chest up and brag all you want, but like everything we do in this globe, we do it half assed...and with Justin cutting a billion more off the budget when does the military expect to have replacement equipment purchased...my guess is never in on the liberals watch...

Canada is nothing more than that squeaky little dog , jumping up and down... now spike, can i do it now spike...If the globe was serious about fighting Russian aggression, it would be sending in top of the line weapons instead of the trinkets we have been sending...

So it is not about saving Ukrainian lives, it's all about not pissing off Russia...and emptying out our junk closet..

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Army Guy

[herbie]

31 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Canada is nothing more than that squeaky little dog

Any my chihuahua cross chases huge bears out of our yard almost nightly since May.

Are you suggesting abandoning Ukraine or cutting aid now? We're arguing about objectives of war vs peacekeeping rather than the subject.
If we don't bark and try to chase the Russians out Putin will be after the Baltic states next and NATOs hand will be forced. Russia can get tired of war too when they're paying in blood.

[WestCanMan]

On 10/2/2023 at 1:45 PM, Nexii said:

Most in Canada will support Ukraine indefinitely.

It's possible. We were stupid enough to elect Trudeau 3 times. 

I don't know how we don't end up with 30% of Canadians with their tongues frozen to street light posts every year. 

Quote

They are a democracy that was attacked by an authoritarian regime.

They tried to bring a hostile military alliance to Russia's doorstep you muppet. Grow up ffs. The US would take Ottawa in 2 hrs if we pulled that crap on them. Book it. 

Quote

At least to most sensible people that don't bootlick authoritarians.

We bootlick like mofos here. Half of this country cheered for vax-fascism like it was free money.