Poilievre: "Trudeau should butt out and let parents raise their kids."

[Nexii]

58 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think that the essentials are teaching young people what they need to know to protect themselves against predators and to know the consequences of sex in terms of STDs and pregnancy. That means knowing the reproductive systems and cycle, particularly what ovulation is, when it occurs, and how pregnancy happens. Kids should know to how to avoid predatory behaviour and how to report it at an early age.  They only need to know the reproductive information just before the age at which reproduction can occur.  STD information can come at the same time.  Everything to do with gender expression and the variety of sexual proclivities can be left for later ages. Some would say 18, others 16.  I’d say for sure it should stay out of elementary school and the adolescent hormonal changes of gr. 6-10.  The senior years of high school are probably fine in Health and Phys. Ed. curriculum, but it’s hard to leave out value judgements that violate personal views.  Scientific description, and where there isn’t clear consensus, presenting different perspectives, is important. 

Yea sadly some children are abused from a young age and aren't even aware that it's wrong

Girls got pregnant at 12-14 all the time in my hometown, and yes we had sex ed and a councillor. How effective was all that? I also knew what I was, sex ed lessons or not. I'd argue that societal attitudes play a much bigger role than education alone

[TreeBeard]

2 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Yea sadly some children are abused from a young age and aren't even aware that it's wrong

Girls got pregnant at 12-14 all the time in my hometown, and yes we had sex ed and a councillor. How effective was all that? I also knew what I was, sex ed lessons or not. I'd argue that societal attitudes play a much bigger role than education alone

 

So your measure of success is whether it is 100% effective, and anything less than that means it’s a failure?

[Nexii]

2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

 

So your measure of success is whether it is 100% effective, and anything less than that means it’s a failure?

I mean that's the bar that the right sets for trans health care, lol

But yea, in seriousness, I am skeptical/cynical about it. The girls that didn't get pregnant were the ones who had parents that were invested in their life more. The school doesn't get credit

[TreeBeard]

1 minute ago, Nexii said:

I mean that's the bar that the right sets for trans health care, lol

But yea, in seriousness, I am skeptical/cynical about it. The girls that didn't get pregnant were the ones who had parents that were invested in their life more. The school doesn't get credit

Do you think anecdotal evidence is good evidence for judging the success?  What if I told you that no one in my school got pregnant as a teen?  How do we weigh your anecdotal evidence against mine?

[Nexii]

3 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Do you think anecdotal evidence is good evidence for judging the success?  What if I told you that no one in my school got pregnant as a teen?  How do we weigh your anecdotal evidence against mine?

I mean it's possible things might have been worse otherwise. Fair to say that I probably didn't have much of a pulse on what actually went on by that age.

Put better, the educational philosophy of the time was not effective. It was an abstinence based approach which did not stop teens from having sex. Since then, rates have dropped as there was a shift to make contraceptives more readily available. 

I see the issues around transgender similarly. Reforms are needed as the status quo isn't great

[herbie]

And PP's anti-Trudeau response siding with those who wish to block acceptance of queer culture gives me yet another reason to never vote Tory again.

As does the NaziPost condemnation of conservatives attempting to return to a more centrist leaning

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/michael-taube-canadian-future-a-party-for-losers

[Nexii]

8 minutes ago, herbie said:

And PP's anti-Trudeau response siding with those who wish to block acceptance of queer culture gives me yet another reason to never vote Tory again.

As does the NaziPost condemnation of conservatives attempting to return to a more centrist leaning

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/michael-taube-canadian-future-a-party-for-losers

They must really be worried, the tone in that article made me laugh

[blackbird]

7 minutes ago, herbie said:

And PP's anti-Trudeau response siding with those who wish to block acceptance of queer culture gives me yet another reason to never vote Tory again.

So you want continue to push "queer culture" in schools and you won't vote Conservative because PP said parents have rights too?  

[blackbird]

18 minutes ago, herbie said:

And PP's anti-Trudeau response siding with those who wish to block acceptance of queer culture gives me yet another reason to never vote Tory again.

As does the NaziPost condemnation of conservatives attempting to return to a more centrist leaning

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/michael-taube-canadian-future-a-party-for-losers

A more centrist party is just a cover for liberal party.  They are nothing more than liberals trying to claim they are conservatives.  One of their supporters mentioned in the article is former B.C. premier Christy Clarke.  She was a liberal if there ever was one.  It was the BC Liberal Party she led and they were ones that brought in the carbon tax in B.C. in 2008, and then later brought in the SOGI 123 in the education system in B.C.  She also signed a deal with China around 2015 to make B.C. a part of China's belt and road policy and build a huge warehouse in Surrey, B.C.

[herbie]

No, it's because people like YOU insist teaching acceptance of anything is "pushing it down your throats".
You can continue with such an attitude, in the long run you'll be gone and your kids won't have to teach acceptance of others in schools. And with any luck ppolitical parties that pander to those that favour hate and discrimination will have faded into history.

[Army Guy]

40 minutes ago, herbie said:

And PP's anti-Trudeau response siding with those who wish to block acceptance of queer culture gives me yet another reason to never vote Tory again.

As does the NaziPost condemnation of conservatives attempting to return to a more centrist leaning

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/michael-taube-canadian-future-a-party-for-losers

Thats BS and you know it, PP has not blocked anything ....but good try...

Yes thats what we need another Conservative party...not enough problems with two...you guys of the left should be more concerned about your own parties...or should i say party

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Based on polls over the curriculum BEFORE Ford revised it.

2. So you're here accusing me of supporting child molesters then right? It's a really great way to not debate people to basically call them monsters.

3. If the teacher directs them to resources including counselors,Planned Parenthood among other options, then that's aligned with their civic obligations in my books.  

 

No it isn’t.  Planned Parenthood has a totally secular viewpoint on abortion.  If you call yourself a Christian, you can’t pretend that Planned Parenthood is morally neutral.  

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, Nexii said:

Yea sadly some children are abused from a young age and aren't even aware that it's wrong

Girls got pregnant at 12-14 all the time in my hometown, and yes we had sex ed and a councillor. How effective was all that? I also knew what I was, sex ed lessons or not. I'd argue that societal attitudes play a much bigger role than education alone

I agree.  Love and acceptance of all different kinds of people is what counts.  One can tolerate others and agree to disagree.  One can disagree with certain lifestyles or expressions and still care deeply for the person having that lifestyle or expression.  I think both sides are arguing about different ends of the same thing, which is let the kids be themselves without coercion or pressure.  I would just keep education focused on skills rather than ideology or religion, unless one chooses an institution that sees the world through a certain lens.   Basically leave them kids alone.

If kids are having a hard time they will show it, at which point adults must listen with humble non-judgmental hearts.  

Edited September 23, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[blackbird]

36 minutes ago, herbie said:

No, it's because people like YOU insist teaching acceptance of anything is "pushing it down your throats".

It is not just acceptance that SOGI123 is teaching in the school system.  They are actually grooming kids and telling them they can be whatever gender and sexual orientation that they choose.  That is far different than teaching acceptance.  And to disagree with that agenda, it is hate and discrimination according to you and the LGBT activists.  That is a lie and I think you must know it.  Teaching acceptance or mutual respect is one thing.   But why does it require teaching that LGBT, trans, etc. is normal and any kid can choose to be part of it? This is teaching an ideology and is something totally different. 

The Ministry of Education also involves Egale Canada in the education system.  Egale is Canada’s leading organization for 2SLGBTQI people and issues.  This means a prominent LGBTQ group effectively has a lot of control over the SOGI 123 curriculum.  If you don't believe the government has this LGBT activist group as part of the education system, just look at the government's own website:

"For more information on SOGI in schools and impacts on students, see the 2011 Egale National Climate Survey on Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia in Canadian Schools: https://egale.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/EgaleFinalReport-web.pdf"

Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity (SOGI) in schools | BC Gov News

Both the BC NDP and the current opposition party, now called BC United Party, formerly the BC Liberal Party support the SOGI 123 in schools.  The BC United Party have said they won't change it.  They changed their name, but not their stripes or ideology.  They also support carbon taxes.

[Moonlight Graham]

The left has this recently discovered tactic where they can label any opinion they don't like as alt-right, far-right, or a conspiracy theory even if it doesn't apply in order to try to delegitimate a viewpoint and scare others people from defending it for fear of being associated with those taboo labels.

Progressive politics often relies on bullying, guilting, and shaming people into compliance.

Oh look at all those knuckle-dragging homophobe parents protesting for their rights as parents.

[Nexii]

26 minutes ago, blackbird said:

It is not just acceptance that SOGI123 is teaching in the school system.  They are actually grooming kids and telling them they can be whatever gender and sexual orientation that they choose.  That is far different than teaching acceptance.  And to disagree with that agenda, it is hate and discrimination according to you and the LGBT activists.  That is a lie and I think you must know it.  Teaching acceptance or mutual respect is one thing.   But why does it require teaching that LGBT, trans, etc. is normal and any kid can choose to be part of it? This is teaching an ideology and is something totally different. 

The Ministry of Education also involves Egale Canada in the education system.  Egale is Canada’s leading organization for 2SLGBTQI people and issues.  This means a prominent LGBTQ group effectively has a lot of control over the SOGI 123 curriculum.  If you don't believe the government has this LGBT activist group as part of the education system, just look at the government's own website:

"For more information on SOGI in schools and impacts on students, see the 2011 Egale National Climate Survey on Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia in Canadian Schools: https://egale.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/EgaleFinalReport-web.pdf"

Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity (SOGI) in schools | BC Gov News

Both the BC NDP and the current opposition party, now called BC United Party, formerly the BC Liberal Party support the SOGI 123 in schools.  The BC United Party have said they won't change it.  They changed their name, but not their stripes or ideology.  They also support carbon taxes.

Every time I hear the word 'groomer' from a right wing I automatically think of projection. As if they fear others might groom their kids before they can first. 

Anyways, I did some reading into SOGI and what it's all about

On the face of it, it's mostly about acceptance and tolerance. But then I got looking into the literature/video list and yea... I have to say that some of the books seem rather age-inappropriate and/or over the top preachy. Stories focused around a hard LGBT message are heavily promoted. I'd much rather see stories that happen to have LGBT characters and are not solely written around the narrative of acceptance. Stories that show we're like anyone else. That should be the message.

On the whole it's probably still all more good than bad but I can definitely see now why the curriculum is so divisive

[OftenWrong]

8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

something like 85% of parents support being informed of children's choices on prounouns etc.

So what. Every parent wants to know everything their child is going through. That's a no-brainer.

Stick to academics, keep your personal ideas about societal reform out of it.

[OftenWrong]

The state must remain secular.

[Michael Hardner]

37 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. So what. Every parent wants to know everything their child is going through. That's a no-brainer.

2. Stick to academics, keep your personal ideas about societal reform out of it.

1. I was actually supporting YOUR point when I wrote that... so what?  So... YOU said parents should be kept in the loop is what...

2. The context for this is unmoored from your point.

 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

And PP's anti-Trudeau response siding with those who wish to block acceptance of queer culture gives me yet another reason to never vote Tory again.

As does the NaziPost condemnation of conservatives attempting to return to a more centrist leaning

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/michael-taube-canadian-future-a-party-for-losers

Well it gives you another reason to lie about it anyway

He said leave parenting up to the parents and schools up to the provinces.

But - that's just too honest a response for you - can't use that to fuel  your hatred. 

So it becomes "siding with those who wish to block queer culture'. Which is a lie twice - he didn't side with anyone and the parents don't want to block queer culture, they just want to know what's going on with their kids.

This is why you can't have a sane conversation with the left anymore.

[RedDog]

I’m no longer worried about this endless whimsical folly. The objective now is to save Alberta.

[CdnFox]

47 minutes ago, RedDog said:

I’m no longer worried about this endless whimsical folly. The objective now is to save Alberta.

Well alberta is siding with the trans people and not promising to inform parents according to smith.

So.... yeah.  Might want to step up your efforts there big guy  

[August1991]

On 9/22/2023 at 4:42 PM, Canadian_Cavalier said:

Pierre has spoken about the recent protests.

In my opinion, it's a very good decision. Pierre has distanced himself and the CPC from the most radical "anti-trans" elements of these protests

...

Huh?

"In my opinion, it's a very good decision...  " because this is NOT something for the federal government to decide.

We live in a federal state. Education is a provincial jurisdiction.

===

We once had a politician who, like Poilievre, understood this. 

Edited September 24, 2023 by August1991

[Canadian_Cavalier]

13 hours ago, August1991 said:

Huh?

"In my opinion, it's a very good decision...  " because this is NOT something for the federal government to decide.

We live in a federal state. Education is a provincial jurisdiction.

===

We once had a politician who, like Poilievre, understood this. 

Trudeau is clearly trying to influence the provinces with his statements.

[RedDog]

9 minutes ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

Trudeau is clearly trying to influence the provinces with his statements.

Which illustrates why Alberta has to bid farewell.

His influence is on Alberta money. Disgusting.

Edited September 24, 2023 by RedDog