Another example of why their is no dialogue in Canada with the left.

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Not really.

I strongly feel there is too much discussion about this sort of thing. It has been blown out of proportion by activists. I strongly suspect 90% (or more) of the people really don't give a rats ass but become involved because a small vocal minority keep on and on and on. Shoving something down peoples throats and being righteous does not make the thing stuck in their throats taste any better.

Making this a thing about children is as farcical as teachers going on strike for more money and saying it is all about the kids.

Ok well we sure talked about it enough before a trans person joined the board.  It's conceivable that another perspective could make the conversation better.

You don't have to discuss if you don't want.  I would like the discussion to move towards discussion of how rights are considered in the public sphere but I can't control that either.

The marchers yesterday were trying to make it about children, but they sure talk about Trudeau, vaccines, the WEF, unions and other things a lot...

[ExFlyer]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

Government policy ? 

There's the rub. I'm dealing with reality, you're dealing with talking points. 

What and who's reality? Yours?? LOL

Maybe you are one of the ones "relying their internet bubbles "?  Like this forum? LOL

[Aristides]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

Government policy ? 

There's the rub. I'm dealing with reality, you're dealing with talking points. 

No, you are dealing with what you read on your internet echo chambers. 

You never even bothered to read the link I posted that explains what SOGI is all about. 

[Nexii]

16 minutes ago, Aristides said:

That's the problem, too many relying their internet bubbles instead of reading the actual government policy. Making and living in their own reality.

Maybe that's the problem. Government policy and how school boards implement that policy could be two different things.

Support for LGBT is much higher than for the curriculum, so why is that? I find it hard to believe that's purely due to misconceptions. 

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Nexii said:

 I find it hard to believe that's purely due to misconceptions. 

Why?  People don't have knowledge of how things work. 

[ExFlyer]

20 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Maybe that's the problem. Government policy and how school boards implement that policy could be two different things.

Support for LGBT is much higher than for the curriculum, so why is that? I find it hard to believe that's purely due to misconceptions. 

I think people will just not say lest they get shat upon.

Sometimes it is smarter to shut up than be shamed by the volatile vocals.

I think there is far less support for the lgbt+++ than the lgbt+++ think and it may all fall flat for them. Political correctness is falling apart.

[I am Groot]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Here's the ingredient of this left/right thing that I see you missing. 

Nobody wants minority beliefs choked down their throats.

Liberals do. They love it. White liberals are so indoctrinated they're the only group that actually hates themselves.

[I am Groot]

Here is a perfect example of why there can be no discussion with the Left on such issues. Taken from a comment on another forum.

Trans kids existing isn't a debate. You either support trans kids being alive or you support them being dead. It's black and white because binary norms are abusive and untrue.

Note that this is not exactly an unusual position for the trans activist set to take. They constantly use these sorts of drama queen statements so that anyone who has any doubts at all about a given policy actually wants them to die, or not exist (whatever the hell that even means). But if the default position is those who object to policies want children to die then how can there be a discussion?

[Nationalist]

8 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Liberals do. They love it. White liberals are so indoctrinated they're the only group that actually hates themselves.

some do...I don't. But then...I'm not a Liberal.

[Nexii]

14 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Here is a perfect example of why there can be no discussion with the Left on such issues. Taken from a comment on another forum.

Trans kids existing isn't a debate. You either support trans kids being alive or you support them being dead. It's black and white because binary norms are abusive and untrue.

Note that this is not exactly an unusual position for the trans activist set to take. They constantly use these sorts of drama queen statements so that anyone who has any doubts at all about a given policy actually wants them to die, or not exist (whatever the hell that even means). But if the default position is those who object to policies want children to die then how can there be a discussion?

There can't be. Though views like this are far-left not mainstream left. That being said some on here spout equally ridiculous things. 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

No, you are dealing with what you read on your internet echo chambers. 

No, I'm going by what actual teachers are saying and doing, and what kids and parents can prove. That's the reality. That's all I care about. 

You can point elsewhere every day on every topic, to CNN/CTV opinions or politicians' blathering, as you're wont to do, I only look at reality. 

Eg, when Biden says "It's a pandemic of the unvaccinated", that's nothing more than a talking point. It literally means nothing in the real world. Graphs from our gov't that show that 85.7% of Canadian covid deaths that month were among the multi-vaxed is reality. When the words of a politician don't jive with incontrovertible evidence I always disregard the politicians. 

I know that Trudeau's word and Biden's word are sacrosanct to you but IDGAF what they say. 

In this case, the gov't's pamphlet is a talking point. What school boards are allowing teachers to say and do is reality. 

Quote

You never even bothered to read the link I posted that explains what SOGI is all about. 

That's the theory, just like the rights and freedoms guaranteed to Russian and Canadian citizens in their constitution/charter, but if you try to protest the war in Ukraine in Gorky Park or vax-fascism in Ottawa, you will find out what baton tastes like. 

[WestCanMan]

57 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

White liberals are so indoctrinated they're the only group that actually hates themselves.

That's the funniest thing I've seen here in a long time.

Sad that it's so true. 

[WestCanMan]

53 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Trans kids existing isn't a debate. You either support trans kids being alive or you support them being dead. It's black and white because binary norms are abusive and untrue.

Ironically, or fittingly, that sentence ends with the word "untrue".

But truth has no meaning to leftists. We've known that for a while now. 

Quote

Note that this is not exactly an unusual position for the trans activist set to take. They constantly use these sorts of drama queen statements 

Chapter 1, Para 1 from HOW TO WIN EVERY DEBATE AGAINST CONSERVATIVES:

Quote

Shriek: "If you don't say "[insert leftist platitude here]" then you're a [insert the laundry list of pejoratives ending with 'ist' here]!"

 

[Army Guy]

5 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I see PP singing the same tunes as Trudeau so....

But your NB government is conservative so, are they on the left now too?

I will not challenge anything but I will say, they are only stupid to those that oppose their policies or methods. That is my middle of the road response. Some like them, some don't.

I think all parties (exception may be NDP because they never have a plan) are the same right now as they all play the non offending populist game.

Nothing wrong with pointing out mistakes but, mistakes according to you. My comment about you was that you used to be quite "middle of the road" and your reasoned comments but lately you are very much right leaning. I cannot and never will point out anyone is wrong as the opinions are very much theirs.

 

Perhaps you can give us some examples....

Yes the Conservative government brought into law, that parents will be notified if their children change pronouns or genders, without parent consent teachers will continue to address students by their given pronouns and genders. This has got nothing to do with trans rights or anything else, it is about keeping parents informed about their children.... and yet the LGBTQ community says this policy is against the Childs rights, it is dangerous, it is violence to those that have parents that do not agree...the less than 1 % that is...and yet they have no problem telling the same parents that their child skipped school, got into a fight, got bad grades, flipped off a teacher... with no regards to what the parents might do...but in this one case we can and will keep parents in the dark...

Your a parent would you want a teacher holding back important info on your child.. when 99 % of parents would sit down and have a conversation with their child, believe it or not most parents love their children unconditional...

Your ex military, you challenge everything, be it at work or at home, if your child was playing with matches around a can of gas, you'd challenge it... if their polices regarding our national defense were out of touch/ stupid you would challenge that...we don't just shrug our shoulders and say the middle of the road response...some like it some don't, lets move on it will change or balance itself. change does not come without challenge. I'm a big boy i can handle constructive criticism

I don't mind anyone challenging  my statements, it is how most debates start, it is how i learn myself, i have admitted on the past i was wrong.

Opinions can be right or wrong, and there is nothing wrong with challenging opinions, change comes for being challenged, change of opinions, getting educated on one topic...I think that is what one of our problems is in this country, we pigeon hole someone becasue of their opinions, "he is on the far right or far left" instead of challenging them on them, who knows maybe both parties will be better off for that conversation...I have plenty of conversations where my believes have changed, with many people on here. now granted i have also had some truly F888ked up conversations with some of the tin foil crowd... but you can't fix stupid...

 

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Do you not see any irony in your thread title, and OP?  

Did you watch any of the media coverage of both protests...the Parents protest was planed well in advanced, the LGBTQ protest was in response with one goal in mind to shout down the parents...make sure their message was not heard...and if the LGBTQ message was so righteous, then why were they advised to wear masks so they could not be identified...what were they afraid of...there was no masks on the parents side...The LGBTQ community went there to be confrontational, not to talk... 

Was there any conversations going on or just yelling... so no i did not see the irony...but your free to point it out...

[Nexii]

Actually I took the Angus Reid poll to be quite encouraging after reading the whole thing. That roughly 8 in 10 would support their trans kid figuring themselves out is very good progress. Of course the media picked out the biggest wedge issues and made it into a rage farm thing. 

[QuebecOverCanada]

Nobody is indoctrinating anybody's kid, ever, about gender ideology folks. (see exhibit above)

This picture was taken in Countryside Village Public School, in Brampton, allegedly from an ex-teacher in Ontario who witnessed this board. I especially like the term "Aromatic", I thought it was a flavor of some sort.

When an ideology gets too far, it's like a rubber band, it widens up until it breaks. This is preposterous from the Left Wing. It's not useful in any way for the learning of the students. They'd be better off teaching maths, english, history, etc. rather than this.

[Army Guy]

4 hours ago, Aristides said:

In this case I am highly suspect. He didn't come to this demonstration on his own. You claim kids are being indoctrinated by schools but refuse to accept they could  be indoctrinated by their parents.

Very true, indoctrination works both ways, it is how racisms is passed on to each generation, and indoctrination takes many forms, from outright in your face, to subtle forms...there are many questions that need to be asked... Why this needs to be in our education system in the first place? i mean why not Indian studies, or Black studies, or the rest of our ugly history...why do we need to spend so much time and energy on 2 % of the population, and why just this group...there are dozens of other groups that5 experienc e much worse conditions and hatred but somehow we left them in the dark, So why LGBTQ gets this much attention...

[I am Groot]

3 hours ago, Nexii said:

There can't be. Though views like this are far-left not mainstream left. That being said some on here spout equally ridiculous things. 

They aren't mainstream Left but they are far from unusual among the trans activist set and the kind of people who turn out for these protests.

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Did you watch any of the media coverage of both protests...the Parents protest was planed well in advanced, the LGBTQ protest was in response with one goal in mind to shout down the parents...make sure their message was not heard...and if the LGBTQ message was so righteous, then why were they advised to wear masks so they could not be identified...what were they afraid of...there was no masks on the parents side...The LGBTQ community went there to be confrontational, not to talk... 

Protests are confrontational by their nature.  As for masks, the leader of the anti-tranny protests has threatened that they're going to take names and retaliate against counter-protestors.  Duh.  

As for irony, just review your thread title. 

You cannot have dialogue with (people who disagree with me) is nothing more than reassuring yourself of your own biases, especially when it's painted in such broad strokes.  

[Army Guy]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The marchers yesterday were trying to make it about children, but they sure talk about Trudeau, vaccines, the WEF, unions and other things a lot...

What do you think it is all about Michael if not children then what has their panties in a knot ?, just about a few people trying to garner some me time...far right activists who hate queers....

Yes I'm sure the conversation got around to a lot of topics...Oh sorry, that was your attempt at painting your picture as "whom ever these people are they are,  what is the word you like to use CHUDS, people to be dismissed becasue they don't fit into what is perceived as the general thought on this topic. 

And those general thoughts today are it is "life threaten" to question or protest any topic that has to do with the LGBTQ community regardless of how small or insignificant it might be... like this one parents, want to know if their child has changed pronouns or genders... why is this a life or death topic.... and if so, why are we not pouring in mental health experts to assist with students who are having these thoughts of suicide...NO... most Canadians have taken up the LGBTQ flag and charged down the street to keep parents informed..."life and death"  think about that for a moment...this is a community that does not want to talk about any topic, that goes against their message they will tell you the narrative and you will use it or be left behind...

‘Life or death’: LGBTQ2 people warn on dangers of school pronoun policy changes (msn.com)

 

[Army Guy]

29 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Protests are confrontational by their nature.  As for masks, the leader of the anti-tranny protests has threatened that they're going to take names and retaliate against counter-protestors.  Duh.  

As for irony, just review your thread title. 

You cannot have dialogue with (people who disagree with me) is nothing more than reassuring yourself of your own biases, especially when it's painted in such broad strokes.  

Thats pretty thin moonbox for you that is... what is confrontational is organizing a counter protest at the same event...it was done that way to disrupt and ensure the parents message did not get any traction...

I mean most of those were ordinary parents for the most part, these things do attract the wing nuts...but they are not antifa, or bikers, or far right racist... but parents...i have not heard of any arrests or physical fights, the amount of people involved... yes that would be scary, taking my name, why not just leave the wallet at home or better yet wear a name tag with Hi my name is john doe...

I'm all about dialogue... Hence why i'm here on this forum....or i'd have my own podcast spewing just my opinion..

But do you really think the counter protest had any intentions of having a dialogue with the parents...or did they go down there to be confrontation and shout down the parents message, "thats what happened"... The mask thing was so they would not be identified if sh*t went south...Did you see the parents with any masks, why is that they could be identified, and targeted as well...but that was not the case.... as for the parents message it differs from city to city...nothing in NB was about anti trans, in fact in many media accounts the parents tell the LGBTQ people they don't care if they are trans, gay, or purple with the warts on their junk...... it was about parents and having a say in their Childs life while at school...

Had nothing to do with life or death...or threats, it was a peaceful protest, with both sides getting media time...

Hundreds of people gather in Fredericton to support New Brunswick's new Policy 713 (msn.com)

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/life-or-death-lgbtq2-people-warn-on-dangers-of-school-pronoun-policy-changes/ar-AA1g79gW?ocid=msedgntphdr&cvid=9dec82e7e4aa478183dc2c7a07e2b5c4&ei=35

Edited September 21, 2023 by Army Guy

[PIK]

Let's not forget when this started and by who.Ont liberal Deputy minister of education,Ben levin. Who was later convicted for child pornography.

Edited September 21, 2023 by PIK

[Michael Hardner]

They also say that it wasn't a hate march but they continue to call teachers groomers...

This movement is unwieldy, disorganized and filled with kooks.  I'm being generous.

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Perhaps you can give us some examples....

Yes the Conservative government brought into law, that parents will be notified if their children change pronouns or genders, without parent consent teachers will continue to address students by their given pronouns and genders. This has got nothing to do with trans rights or anything else, it is about keeping parents informed about their children.... and yet the LGBTQ community says this policy is against the Childs rights, it is dangerous, it is violence to those that have parents that do not agree...the less than 1 % that is...and yet they have no problem telling the same parents that their child skipped school, got into a fight, got bad grades, flipped off a teacher... with no regards to what the parents might do...but in this one case we can and will keep parents in the dark...

Your a parent would you want a teacher holding back important info on your child.. when 99 % of parents would sit down and have a conversation with their child, believe it or not most parents love their children unconditional...

Your ex military, you challenge everything, be it at work or at home, if your child was playing with matches around a can of gas, you'd challenge it... if their polices regarding our national defense were out of touch/ stupid you would challenge that...we don't just shrug our shoulders and say the middle of the road response...some like it some don't, lets move on it will change or balance itself. change does not come without challenge. I'm a big boy i can handle constructive criticism

I don't mind anyone challenging  my statements, it is how most debates start, it is how i learn myself, i have admitted on the past i was wrong.

Opinions can be right or wrong, and there is nothing wrong with challenging opinions, change comes for being challenged, change of opinions, getting educated on one topic...I think that is what one of our problems is in this country, we pigeon hole someone becasue of their opinions, "he is on the far right or far left" instead of challenging them on them, who knows maybe both parties will be better off for that conversation...I have plenty of conversations where my believes have changed, with many people on here. now granted i have also had some truly F888ked up conversations with some of the tin foil crowd... but you can't fix stupid...

 

I am not sure where you are going. Sorry